Priests - What For?

[Archangel]

Hello.

I would like to ask a question.

Why do many churches have Priests? The New Testiment tells us that we are all Priests, and the information it gives on leadership is that of eldership [1 Tim & Titus] Ephesians talks of pastors as well , and paster basicly means overseer. Why do churches have priests when the NT outlines leadership in local churches as under eldership authourity with deacons [ministry leaders]?

Thank You.

 

[Borealis]

The Church ALWAYS had a priestly order, from the very beginning. The New Testament says very clearly that there is a priestly heirarchy within the Church.

Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority.

Acts 1:20 - a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his "bishopric") is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, "I'll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own."

Acts 1:22 - literally, "one must be ordained" to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ's authority.

Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.

Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.

Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.

Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.

Acts 15:22-27 - preachers of the Word must be sent by the bishops in union with the Church. We must trace this authority to the apostles.

2 Cor. 1:21-22 - Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

Col 1:25 - Paul calls his position a divine "office." An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it's not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.

1 Tim. 3:1 - Paul uses the word "episcopoi" (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul's use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.

1 Tim. 4:14 - again, apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination).

1 Tim. 5:22 - Paul urges Timothy to be careful in laying on the hands (ordaining others). The gift of authority is a reality and cannot be used indiscriminately.

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves).

Exodus 18:25-26 - Moses appoints various heads over the people of God. We see a hierarchy, a transfer of authority and succession.

Exodus 40:15 - the physical anointing shows that God intended a perpetual priesthood with an identifiable unbroken succession.

Numbers 3:3 - the sons of Aaron were formally "anointed" priests in "ordination" to minister in the priests' "office."

Numbers 16:40 - shows God's intention of unbroken succession within His kingdom on earth. Unless a priest was ordained by Aaron and his descendants, he had no authority.

Numbers 27:18-20 - shows God's intention that, through the "laying on of hands," one is commissioned and has authority.

Deut. 34:9 - Moses laid hands upon Joshua, and because of this, Joshua was obeyed as successor, full of the spirit of wisdom.

Sirach 45:15 - Moses ordains Aaron and anoints him with oil. There is a transfer of authority through formal ordination.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Also John 20:22-23

Priests are absolutly needed. And when the New Testiment tells us that we are all Priests, you must ask "The Church", what does that mean.... it is not for us to decipher on our own.

Forgive me...

 

[PaladinValer]

Hello.

I would like to ask a question.

Fire away.

Why do many churches have Priests?

Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition.

The New Testiment tells us that we are all Priests, and the information it gives on leadership is that of eldership [1 Tim & Titus].

No.

First off, read the Greek; there are two words that are often translated to "priest" yet they mean two entirely different things. We are a "priesthood" of believers in the sense of our common baptism and our mission as laity to live the Good News.

However, The Greek used for "priest" in the phrase "priesthood of believers" is different than the Greek used for elder. The first means what I've stated above. Elder comes from the word "presbyteros," which was Anglicized into "priest." This is the priesthood of the Vatican, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglican Churches.

Ephesians talks of pastors as well , and paster basicly means overseer.

No. That word is episkopos, which translates into "bishop." A Protestant or Calvinist "minister" or "pastor" isn't an actual priest.

Why do churches have priests when the NT outlines leadership in local churches as under eldership authourity with deacons [ministry leaders]?

Because you aren't reading the Greek correctly. The ministry is of deacons, priests, and bishops since Day One.

 

[StevenL]

No "office" of priest exists in the New Covenant priesthood. The ORDER is now the order of Melchizedek....one High Priest and a brotherhood of priests (God's Called-Out) who have been born into the royal family. The separate Levitical priesthood in the Old Covenant order was instituted because of stubbornness, sin, and rebellion. It was not God's ultimate will for His people. He had already stated that they were to be A NATION OF PRIESTS. But then came the calves and the party. The tribe of Levi was separated from the rest of the tribes to minister to God because they were the ones who had the guts to stand with Moses and KILL their sinning brethren if necessary (which they did. 3000 of them.) Exodus 32.

Maintaining the separate priesthood (clergy) today is rebellion. It is denying the New Order. It is trampling under foot the Son of God. But...this practice was foretold and has come to being in a most marvelous manner.

People with the New Nature don't need a "priesthood" to stand between them and God to prevent their destruction. The church "priesthood" is a wonderful deception.

 

[Lynn73]

No "office" of priest exists in the New Covenant priesthood. The ORDER is now the order of Melchizedek....one High Priest and a brotherhood of priests (God's Called-Out) who have been born into the royal family. The separate Levitical priesthood in the Old Covenant order was instituted because of stubbornness, sin, and rebellion. It was not God's ultimate will for His people. He had already stated that they were to be A NATION OF PRIESTS. But then came the calves and the party. The tribe of Levi was separated from the rest of the tribes to minister to God because they were the ones who had the guts to stand with Moses and KILL their sinning brethren if necessary (which they did. 3000 of them.) Exodus 32.

Maintaining the separate priesthood (clergy) today is rebellion. It is denying the New Order. It is trampling under foot the Son of God. But...this practice was foretold and has come to being in a most marvelous manner.

People with the New Nature don't need a "priesthood" to stand between them and God to prevent their destruction. The church "priesthood" is a wonderful deception.

You must spread reputation around before giving to StevenL again. Thanks for explaining it so well. We have a high priest, Jesus Christ, standing between us and God. He's the only priest we need. Now, of course, we have leaders and elders and such to help lead and guide and admonish, etc. but we only need one priest and Jesus is that priest.

I'm curious, could you tell me where this was foretold?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Archangel,



How is it that a person with 726 posts has a reputation of 17,724?



Forgive me....

 

[PaladinValer]

Emma's...

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Hello.

I would like to ask a question.

Why do many churches have Priests? The New Testiment tells us that we are all Priests,

There is the common priesthood of the faithful, and
there is the ministerial priesthood of Ordained Priests....
both are enfolded from Baptismal Grace.

You are right in that we are all Priests...but not all ORDAINED Priests.
One of the functions of the ministerial Priesthood is to preside at the Eucharistic Liturgy at the Altar.

Some churches do not have an altar. nor do they do Liturgy....so from that perspective I can understand;... "why are priests necessary ?
Rev.11:1....."Come and take the measurements of God's temple and altar, and count those who worship there....."

The Liturgy and Priests are necessary for Worship in Spirit and Truth and the distribution of Christ's flesh and Blood, given for the forgiveness of our sins.

and the information it gives on leadership is that of eldership [1 Tim & Titus] Ephesians talks of pastors as well , and paster basicly means overseer. Why do churches have priests when the NT outlines leadership in local churches as under eldership authourity with deacons [ministry leaders]?

Thank You.

From the commom priesthood (the laity) ...God calls Priests forward into the Deaconate, then further into ORDAINED (ministerial) PRIESTHOOD,
and from ordained Priesthood into the Priesthood of BISHOP.
Presbyter" is another word for Priest.

Just this A.M. we met w/ Our Bishop, Priests, Sisters, and (laity) priests like you and I, to share and learn about Prison Ministry.
We are Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers in roles of service for the faithful to build up the Body of Christ.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Jesus Christ is our high priest. That doesn't mean He is the only priest. The Jews always had a high priest as well. That doesn't mean they only had 1 priest.

 

[jgarden]

The role of the "priest" has continually changing over time. During the early Church, there were hardly any professional clergy and services were often conducted by laymen. The introduction of the professional priest and clergy relegated the average believer to a more passive role. All Christians should be priests and missionaries and not relegate the responsible to the professionals.

 

[Patristic]

The presbyters of the early Church were priests. The Greek word used in the New Testament is presbuteros. In German that word was translated as prester, and from prester we get the English priest. The Church always had priests, and the New Testament word used to denote them was presbuteros.

 

[Carico]

Hello.

I would like to ask a question.

Why do many churches have Priests? The New Testiment tells us that we are all Priests, and the information it gives on leadership is that of eldership [1 Tim & Titus] Ephesians talks of pastors as well , and paster basicly means overseer. Why do churches have priests when the NT outlines leadership in local churches as under eldership authourity with deacons [ministry leaders]?

Thank You.

Good question. I agree with you. I think that the church has been led away from the bible more & more as the years go on.

 

[StevenL]

The presbyters of the early Church were priests. The Greek word used in the New Testament is presbuteros. In German that word was translated as prester, and from prester we get the English priest. The Church always had priests, and the New Testament word used to denote them was presbuteros.

Of course the older people (that's the actual meaning of the word) were priests. ALL of the early congregation were priests. The leaders of the assemblies (bishops - meaning overseers, superintendents, leaders) were selected from among the elder men. But NO OFFICE of "Priest" exists within the ekklesia; this is a man-made, false office that keeps people in bondage to an old order that has been done away with because of its ineffectiveness.

 

[kimber1]

But NO OFFICE of "Priest" exists within the ekklesia; this is a man-made, false office that keeps people in bondage to an old order that has been done away with because of its ineffectiveness.

what proof do you have of this accusation?

Jesus Himself instituted the first "ordained" priest in Peter.

 

[Patristic]

Of course the older people (that's the actual meaning of the word) were priests. ALL of the early congregation were priests. The leaders of the assemblies (bishops - meaning overseers, superintendents, leaders) were selected from among the elder men. But NO OFFICE of "Priest" exists within the ekklesia; this is a man-made, false office that keeps people in bondage to an old order that has been done away with because of its ineffectiveness.

I just explained to you how the Greek word presbuteros was transliterated from German into English to give us the English translation of priest. Do you have any proof that the presbyters of the early church did not perform a priestly ministry and that that ministry does not carry on within the Church today? All you have offered so far is your own speculative opinion.

 

[StevenL]

what proof do you have of this accusation?

Jesus Himself instituted the first "ordained" priest in Peter.

It's not an accusation Kimber. Just a statement of fact. Jesus never called Kephas a "priest." He named him as a "commissioned agent" (apostle). Quite a different function from that of a Priest.

Patristic - I'm not really interested in how the church later used words to justify its apostate offices. I'm only interested in what the early believers practiced and said as witnessed by the Biblical writers. We learn this from....reading the Bible.

I didn't say that this "ministry" wasn't carried on in the church today.

 

[PaladinValer]

Again, the word "presbyteros" is used. That means priest.

 

[Archangel]

No.

First off, read the Greek; there are two words that are often translated to "priest" yet they mean two entirely different things. We are a "priesthood" of believers in the sense of our common baptism and our mission as laity to live the Good News.

However, The Greek used for "priest" in the phrase "priesthood of believers" is different than the Greek used for elder. The first means what I've stated above. Elder comes from the word "presbyteros," which was Anglicized into "priest." This is the priesthood of the Vatican, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglican Churches.

It is true that we are all priests, but those who are called Priests in certain churches are in the same office as elder/overseer, and the guidlines for that office are in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1.

No. That word is episkopos, which translates into "bishop." A Protestant or Calvinist "minister" or "pastor" isn't an actual priest.

The terminology in the New Testiment that refer to the office of elder are as follows:

episkopos - which translates into overseer [1 Tim3:1 1Peter5:2] (which is bishop in the KJV as you have stated)

presbuteros - which translates elder [Titus 1:6; 1Peter 5:1]

poimen - which translates sheperd (1 Peter 5:2; John 10-2-5 [and translated pastor in Eph 4:11]

None of these are translated into priest... rather, all are translated into the same ministry office, [bishop, overseer, sheperd or elder]

Because you aren't reading the Greek correctly. The ministry is of deacons, priests, and bishops since Day One.

Nope. The New Testiment outlines only deacons and overseers [elders, bishops] in church leadership. The only priests are christians under Christ as our High Priest, under the order of Melchizedek. [Hebrews 7&8]

Archangel,



How is it that a person with 726 posts has a reputation of 17,724?



Forgive me....

Reputation is given by other members, not gained by the number of posts. People have just repped me.

 

[Archangel]

what proof do you have of this accusation?

Jesus Himself instituted the first "ordained" priest in Peter.

Jesus said "upon this rock I shall build my church". If you are interpreting this to say it is Peter who the church shall be built on then that is fine.

Ephesians 2:20 says that the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets.

Christ did not make Peter a priest...no where in this passage does it say that...rather Peter [and the other disciples] were to be the founding stones for the church to be built upon. Read Acts. The apostles administered the church and founded it...they established the basic doctrine, they taught the gospel. Peter was a preist in the sense that every christian is a preist [1 Peter]

Christ did not ordaine Peter as a Priest...rather he commissioned Peter and the other disciples to establish the church on earth for God's purposes.




Im going to repeat what StephenL so rightly said:

"It's not an accusation Kimber. Just a statement of fact. Jesus never called Kephas a "priest." He named him as a "commissioned agent" (apostle). Quite a different function from that of a Priest."