Those are Phoebe's words.
Scripture also saysWhy do the scriptures use such language (in literally scores of places) ... when the more direct truth (according to Calvinists) ... is that "whosoever the Lord predetermines shall be saved."
People can not make a choice when they are unaware the genuine truth exists.We can't choose to follow Christ?
I thought God or Satan can't take away choice? Satan likes to make the selection a lot with technology but can't make us choose anything. Now I agree we might have a hard time doing nothing but we don't choose it?
If your getting at the fact I don't choose every heart beat? There are somethings going on that I didn't choose but not sure if this is the same thing here?
Scripture also says
Romans 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
Yeah looking at my past this describes me very well. I'm still pretty sure I made a choice somewhere though.
It happens to me a lot but I get this feeling ever now and again it's like I been here before. Sometimes people say things to me that i don't understand at the moment but blew my mind and in the future I remember looking back on it and it starts making sense.
This might be a bad explanation. I tried to describe the best I could.
Scripture also says
Romans 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
Augustine, Calvin, and I understand your very biblical position well. Arminius - not so much.
I would have to agree, but I feel as though I need to learn a whole lot more. And Calvin's teachings make Arminians angry! I'm not sure I understand that except with Mormons and I, of course, know why.
Now you said previously:
And yet, you end your post saying you believe in _________ .
"Those are my reasons."
There is something wrong here.
"Prevenient Grace", even though you attribute it to John Wesley, is a product of "Arminian/Remonstrant" theology.
Jacobus Arminus wrote:
"Concerning grace and free will, this is what I teach according to the Scriptures and orthodox consent: Free will is unable to begin or to perfect any true and spiritual good, without grace...This grace goes before, accompanies, and follows; it excites, assists, operates that we will, and co-operates lest we will in vain."
The Works of James Arminus, Volume II, Grace and Free Will
Arminus' died almost 100 years before John Wesley was even born.
Believe it or not sister, your letting Arminus define your beliefs.
God Bless
Till all are one.
Don't worry about haters. Arminians and Pelagians have been hating on me since 2005.
The real argument lies in asking: can you, at that point (or at several points) actually choose to not believe it?
This is a misrepresentation
Reformed Theology sees prevenient grace as regeneration, as it concerns Soteriology.
Non Reformed Theology sees it more as freeing the will to be able to believe, but not necessarily regeneration. As I understand it, it's agreed that we are dead in sin, but God does something to us to enable us to believe, though the choice to believe is still ours to make.
I am more than willing to accept a better definition if someone would like to provide it. This is just my understanding as I've pieced it together through the years.
The question is, is this a biblical concept, and if so, what scripture would be used to support it?
Why would I want my best friend and my daughter to hate me? Criticism from those online is like water off a duck's back.
Yeah looking at my past this describes me very well. I'm still pretty sure I made a choice somewhere though.
It happens to me a lot but I get this feeling ever now and again it's like I been here before. Sometimes people say things to me that i don't understand at the moment but blew my mind and in the future I remember looking back on it and it starts making sense.
This might be a bad explanation. I tried to describe the best I could.
My comment was bit tongue in cheek; however, mustn't all Christians suffer for the truth?
The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Or, I should have probably rather said, "believe 'Him'".Believe what?
Yes. But also that not all those who subscribe to 'prevenient grace' will subscribe to a kind-of universalism as you laid it out.In what way? In that all schools believe in some kind of PG?
People can not make a choice when they are unaware the genuine truth exists.
So Christ just becomes foolishness to the natural mind. They do not receive because they can not know.
2 Corinthians 4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 2
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yes. But also that not all those who subscribe to 'prevenient grace' will subscribe to a kind-of universalism as you laid it out.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?