Pretribbers, which pretrib "details" have proven true?

[LastSeven]

Where was Christ's Spirit during those days He was in the tomb?

Christ's "spirit" returned to God who gave it, but of course you and I disagree on what "spirit" actually is. You think a spirit is a conscious entity with memories and thoughts and a free will. That's the basis of your fallacy, not understanding the actual meanings of words.

 

[LastSeven]

Do you think paradise was the tomb for Christ and a hole in the ground or a garbage dump for the thief?

I don't know what paradise refers to, but if Jesus did indeed go there that day, then it can't be the dwelling place of God.

 

[LastSeven]

Your doctrine has to ignore the Holy Ghost, and therefore cannot be correct.

Why would my doctrine have to ignore the Holy Ghost? Just because we don't have our own ghost, doesn't mean God can't dwell in us.

 

[LastSeven]

His body had not ascended to the Father at that point in time.

So let me get this straight then.

1. You believe that paradise and heaven are the same thing.
2. You believe that Jesus' actually went to heaven on the day he died, but in spirit form only.
3. You probably also believe that Jesus' spirit went to hell and preached to other spirits there. (so did he go to heaven first and then to hell? Or hell first and then heaven?)
4. When Jesus said he had not yet ascended to the Father, he was actually not being entirely forthcoming as he neglected to explain that he actually had ascended to his father, just not with his body? (That doesn't seem very genuine, does it?)

 

[LastSeven]

Your whole doctrine revolves around the idea that we are made up only of a body that is either alive or dead.

Yup. If it were not so, there would be no point in the resurrection.

 

[BABerean2]

He didn't say that, did he? He said "I have not ascended". So what is "I" when referring to oneself? Is "I" the spirit, or the body? According to your statement, it must be either the body, or the combination of body and spirit, but it can't be the spirit alone. So what do you think constitutes a person?

Christ gave the answer below about what constitutes a person.
If you ever admit what is plainly states, you would have to abandon the "soul sleep" doctrine, which is mainly held by the followers of Charles Russell and Ellen White.

Mat 10:28　 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.　

The woman was told not to touch His body.
She could not touch His soul.

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[LastSeven]

I accept what it says, but you are accepting what you think it says. Where in scripture do you see a definition for soul, that matches your own?

 

[BABerean2]

I accept what it says, but you are accepting what you think it says. Where in scripture do you see a definition for soul, that matches your own?

Mat_10:28　 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Joh_20:22　 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


Act_2:31　 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


1Co_15:45　 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


1Th_5:23　 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Heb_4:12　 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

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[LastSeven]

1Co_15:45　 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Here's a good one. Adam was made a living soul. Jesus was made a quickening spirit. What's the difference between Adam and Jesus? Adam was made from dust. Jesus was made a spirit. So what does that tell you about the word "soul"? At the very least it's not the same as a spirit, is it?

 

[BABerean2]

At the very least it's not the same as a spirit, is it?

The answer was posted above, but you attempted to ignore it because it did not agree with your "soul sleep" doctrine.


Heb_4:12　 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

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[LastSeven]

You keep accusing me of ignoring scripture but I don't. You and I just don't understand these scriptures the same way and I think it's because we don't define the words the same way.

If you know that soul and spirit are two different things, please explain the difference to me and more importantly, tell me where you get your definitions from.

 

[BABerean2]

You keep accusing me of ignoring scripture but I don't. You and I just don't understand these scriptures the same way and I think it's because we don't define the words the same way.

If you know that soul and spirit are two different things, please explain the difference to me and more importantly, tell me where you get your definitions from.

This is an excellent example of ignorance, since you totally ignored the words "joints and marrow".

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[LastSeven]

I did not "ignore" those words. I just don't see the relevance of those words. Obviously we are all made of flesh. What's to discuss?

You on the other hand keep ignoring my request for your definition of soul and/or spirit.

 

[BABerean2]

I did not "ignore" those words. I just don't see the relevance of those words. Obviously we are all made of flesh. What's to discuss?

Heb_4:12　 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There are at least three different things in the verse above.

soul

spirit

joints and marrow (body parts)


What is there to discuss?

Obviously, the "soul sleep" doctrine cannot admit that they are all different things.

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[LastSeven]

Obviously, the "soul sleep" doctrine cannot admit that they are all different things.

Where did you get that idea? Of course they are all different things. There's the body (joints and marrow), the life (spirit), and the living creature (soul) which is the combination of both.

 

[Copperhead]

I remember being told that a Biblical generation is 40 years so therefore Christ would return by 1988 at the latest.

Well, one generation during Noah's time was 120 years. There are examples of a generation being 100 years, 70 years, and of course, the 40 years you mention. But given that Yeshua said that as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the son, it would seem that a generation might just be longer than 40 years.

 

[Copperhead]

The problem is (and always has been) reading comprehension. People need to look at the WHOLE prophecy and not jump the gun when they "think" they have it solved.
The kingdom of the antichrist has to encompass the ENTIRE world, not part, not bits and pieces.
There is only one organization that makes claims to the entirety of the Earth, the UN.
Funny enough, the UN has divided the world into 10 administrative districts, you can find maps of such online. Though, at this time, the UN has no "REAL" authority, that could change very rapidly.
And what would serve the antichrist better than a bunch of elitist, unelected bureaucrats?

Well, not quite. Remember that an army comes against him from the east and north. That would imply that the false messiah does not have a grip on all the planet. Daniel 11.