preterist end time position

[dfw69]

What is the Preterist end times prophecies?

 

[com7fy8]

What is the Preterist end times prophecies?

According to how I understand what I studied >

"preterist" means you believe that the prophecies of Revelation have already happened when the Romans destroyed the Jewish temple. And I guess a "preterists" might think we are now in the "Millennial" kingdom time.

But people who have a label do not always agree with each other, about what that label is supposed to mean

Compared to "preterist", there is >

"idealist" > supposed to mean things in Revelation are symbolic

"historical" > means Revelation is showing what would happen in history; some has happened, already, and more will happen

"futurist" > means all is yet to happen

I find that some of Revelation can be talking about what has already happened; and there is symbolism for historical things in this world, but also in spiritual actions of God against Satan and the spiritual Rapture action of Jesus receiving us as His Bride Church.

So, you trust God who knows

And, most of all, there is plenty which is written in order to help us grow in Jesus and real loving with Him. We can always discover how Revelation helps us to live with God now, even if we may not "get" what symbolism might mean for historical events spiritual or physical.

For one example, ones do not agree about if the seven letters are meant for churches at John's time, or for a historical series of churches. Well, people who disagree with each other can both be partly correct; for all I know, those seven churches were historical churches each needing those letters, plus there could be seven stages of the church through history.

An anything Jesus says to Christians can help any of us get correction and perfection of His love and to have hope and encouragement about all our Groom has for all of us. So, even if we are not sure about any "historical" time for these seven churches, we can get the spiritual benefits in us.

 

[dfw69]

Thank you


I guess what I'm asking is what literal events will take place in the future ...From a preterist point of view

 

[parousia70]

Thank you

I guess what I'm asking is what literal events will take place in the future ...From a preterist point of view

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal earth and created universe will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Eph 3:21; Ps 78:69; Ps 89:36-37)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that literal Human generations on earth continue in perpetuity (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3, 34; Luke 1:33)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal INCREASE of souls over whom Christ governs will go on forever (Isaiah 9:7)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that on the "new earth" Birth, death, ageing and sinners would continue to literally exist. (Isaiah 65:17-21, Revelation 21 & 22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that whatever changes God has in store for the future of our literal universe, the timing and details have not been revealed to men. (Deut 29:29)

 

[dfw69]

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal earth and created universe will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Eph 3:21; Ps 78:69; Ps 89:36-37)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that literal Human generations on earth continue in perpetuity (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3, 34; Luke 1:33)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal INCREASE of souls over whom Christ governs will go on forever (Isaiah 9:7)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that on the "new earth" Birth, death, ageing and sinners would continue to literally exist. (Isaiah 65:17-21, Revelation 21 & 22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that whatever changes God has in store for the future of our literal universe, the timing and details have not been revealed to men. (Deut 29:29)

Sounds like preterist do not believe the events of the new testament are literal. ..

thanks Parousia...

.is that it?

What about judgement day and new heaven new earth. God coming down. Jesus return....New Jerusalem......Two witnesses. The resurrection what are your views?

 

[Straightshot]

Good post above com7Fy8 .... informative and true

The Lord's Revelation is a view of the future .... the "things hereafter" .... and all of His prophets agree related to the unfulfilled portions of their visions

There is repetition of details on certain subjects as the narrative moves forward

The Lord's evaluation of the "church" is given first and these things continue to this very day, but soon He will switch His focus to His coming hour of [time] trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world .... the things here, after beginning in chapter 4 through chapter 20 .... then He will bring His eternal kingdom [Revelation 21; 22]

Revelation is the Lord's blessing upon the reader that hears and believes .... the blessed hope of His return and beyond


There are some passages that give historical reach backs for overview like Revelation 12 and Revelation 17

 

[dfw69]

Good post above com7Fy8 .... informative and true

The Lord's Revelation is a view of the future .... the "things hereafter" .... and all of His prophets agree related to the unfulfilled portions of their visions

There is repetition of details on certain subjects as the narrative moves forward

The Lord's evaluation of the "church" is given first and these things continue to this very day, but soon He will switch His focus to His coming hour of [time] trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world .... the things here, after beginning in chapter 4 through chapter 20 .... then He will bring His eternal kingdom [Revelation 21; 22]

Revelation is the Lord's blessing upon the reader that hears and believes .... the blessed hope of His return and beyond


There are some passages that give historical reach backs for overview like Revelation 12 and Revelation 17

Evaluation of the church?....how will he evaluated?

 

[com7fy8]

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal earth and created universe will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Eph 3:21; Ps 78:69; Ps 89:36-37)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that literal Human generations on earth continue in perpetuity (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3, 34; Luke 1:33)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal INCREASE of souls over whom Christ governs will go on forever (Isaiah 9:7)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that on the "new earth" Birth, death, ageing and sinners would continue to literally exist. (Isaiah 65:17-21, Revelation 21 & 22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that whatever changes God has in store for the future of our literal universe, the timing and details have not been revealed to men. (Deut 29:29)

Ok, dfw, if Parousia is representing preterism correctly, I can see here how if things prophesied have already happened, then it would be on the earth the way it is now. And I think ones might say that the "new earth" means the new rule of God unlike before, but on this earth.

But Paul says, "the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God," in Romans 8:21. And I understand that the "glorious liberty of the children of God" includes how our earthly bodies are resurrected; therefore, "the creation" will be resurrected . . . into being a new earth in resurrectional glory of newness, even like the body of Jesus raised from the dead.

And you might have seen how a person can make others become like himself or herself. An arguer can help others to become quarrelsome; a gossip can help others to also be blabbers of what may not even be true.

But Jesus can bring us to become like Himself, the only way His love will effect us > 1 John 4:17. And, like this, He can bring any and all into His own resurrectional glory, because we know Jesus is "the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25). So, this is how He can effect anyone and everyone, anything and everything, including the whole physical universe.

By the way, thank you very much for the blessings I hope I'm staying on track with your subject, here. God bless you

 

[Interplanner]

I don't know why 2 Pet 3 would use so many technical terms for the meltdown and re-creation of this world (right after speaking about technical terms for a very old earth and for creation and for the deluge). So a number of Parousia's therefore go backwards in my mind.

Don't be literal about Eph 3's world without end. It simply means that it (the condition just spelled out) is the feature of this age of the human race in God's overall plan. It is a Hebraism like those in the OT where a place or city was said to be there forever, yet we find a few centuries later that it is smithereens. It meant for the foreseeable generations.

 

[Notrash]

Sounds like preterist do not believe the events of the new testament are literal. ..

thanks Parousia...

.is that it?

What about judgement day and new heaven new earth. God coming down. Jesus return....New Jerusalem......Two witnesses. The resurrection what are your views?

That was a good post by Parousia 70.

Not all Prrterists are in unison on tge explanation or each prophecy was fulfilled, but most have common foundation of the eternal kingdom being a present personal, subjective (and therefore external) reality.

The words "new jerusalem, new heaven & earth, new covt, etc are words of CONTRAST as spoken to the people living in the mosaic covt "heavens & earth"; jerusalem, etc.

Judgement day WAS the end of the mosaic covt law as those who adhered to the new law and new way of Gods favor were judged as approved and favored along with his revealed truths.

Since that time,, mankind and individuals live in the light and result of that judgement and those truths.

Sadly, through the misunderstandings and misinterpretations of futurist perspectives and the few faulty points of the creeds and religion of Ireneous that resulted from those misinterpretations, mankind has thusfar failed to establishe the tenents and way of the perpetual kingdom of peace, love and truth.......THUSFAR...

The futurist religion of Ireneous, Constatine, dispensationalism and even the forward looking parts of the creeds preach a continuous time of wars and calamities as if it were part of the creators intent and will "until" some end times which already were.

Even the churches which are non militant, "peace churches" teach that these wars and rumors of wars are part of the continual downward spiral of the curse upon mankind; instrad of teaching the goodness of life and absolute non-participation nor support, nor neccessity of such wars and the hopes and expectation of the growth of the kingdom, its truths, doctrine and perpetuality generatiin after generatiin.
,
Sadly, end timers and a few points of the creeds and warring corporations sit personally in the negative side of the favorable judgement of Christ for life, for truth and for humanity at his first century revealing.

The future has been partly placed on the shoulders of believing humanity, for as he said; The givornment shall rest upon his shoulders; meaning that the elements for the growth for the growth of peace, truth and life wrested upon and was delivered by Christ at and during the 70 yr timeframe of his visitation and continues partly (if not fully) among and through the recievers from among humanity. The forever throne of yhe seed of David is fulfilled in this way. 2 Sam 7:12-16.









...

 

[Notrash]

Rom 8 referred to the yet future release of thr creature (the sacrificial animals) who wrre yet in bondage of the mosaic law.

The meaning of the resurrectiin of the body in 1 Cor 15 and why Paul parralleled that resurrectiin to Jesuses resurrection (which was stated to be for vindication & justification; NOT FOR EXAMPLE) would be the topic of a seperate thread. Ireneous is the one who demanded that a belief in a future bodily resurrection was an absolute tenent to be adhered to. The creeds followed his understanding or we would say misunderstanding of Pauls intent.

Paul affirmed a resurrectiin to a next life, but only affirmed the resurrectiin of the spirit and Angel in Acts 23:6-8. The angel can apparently manifest a physical body, accirding to the idea that the disciples thought tgat Mary heard Peters 'angel' knocking at the door.

 

[Straightshot]

Evaluation of the church?....how will he evaluated?


Revelation 2; 3; gives the Lord's evaluation of the professing "church", he uses examples of the 7 assemblies in Asia Minor .... and these positives and negatives are the same today and must be applied .... and they can all be applied

His same evaluation stands at this time .... and up to the time of the infilling [adding] of the Gentiles of the nations to His "church"[Romans 11:25-36]

Then He will change the course and the "things hereafter" will begin [Revelation 4:1]

 

[random person]

Sounds like preterist do not believe the events of the new testament are literal. ..

thanks Parousia...

.is that it?

What about judgement day and new heaven new earth. God coming down. Jesus return....New Jerusalem......Two witnesses. The resurrection what are your views?

Judgment day occurred in A.D. 70, the great white throne of judgment is the throne Christ has sat on since A.D. 30 after ascending into heaven. We will all encounter this throne one day.

The resurrection is out of paradise into heaven in A.D. 70.

New Heaven and New Earth is covenantal in nature, not cosmic in nature.

New Jerusalem is heaven.

The two witnesses many believe are the law and prophets,

or the transfiguration pair (Elijah and Moses),

or John the Baptist and Jesus,

or Peter and Paul, etc.

 

[parousia70]

Sounds like preterist do not believe the events of the new testament are literal. ..

thanks Parousia...

Well, futurists are hardly literalists either.

How else does one stretch shortly, at hand, about to take place, etc.... into 2 millennia and counting without abandoning literalism?

 

[Straightshot]

The preterist has no end time position

The same has removed the biblical account from scripture .... so he thinks

They think that the Lord has left the building and has reclined to some far far away place

.... when in fact He is present as we speak and will bring His next intervention He is ready .... and He will "quickly" carry out His intents just as He says

While the preterist basks in total blindness and scoffs

A dead preterist will not know .... but if alive at the time the preterist will not be ready as the Lord's warns [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

 

[parousia70]

The preterist has no end time position

Demonstrably false.

The same has removed the biblical account from scripture .... so he thinks

Again demonstrably false. Straw man at its finest.

They think that the Lord has left the building and has reclined to some far far away place

Rather, we affirm the lord is PRESENT among us - it's the futurist who claims He is in a far away place waiting to return

A dead preterist will not know .... but if alive at the time the preterist will not be ready as the Lord's warns [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

If I'm right, I'll see you in heaven.
If you're right, I'll see you in heaven

1 Thess 5: 1-9
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

 

[dfw69]

Do any preterist at least believe in the return of Jesus?

If so in what way?

 

[parousia70]

I think interplanner is one who splits the Olivet in two - Matt 24 Vs 1-29 He applies to 70AD, vs 30+ he applies to our future.

It's actually a fairly common partial preterist position.

 

[Notrash]

I don't know why 2 Pet 3 would use so many technical terms for the meltdown and re-creation of this world (right after speaking about technical terms for a very old earth and for creation and for the deluge). So a number of Parousia's therefore go backwards in my mind.

Don't be literal about Eph 3's world without end. It simply means that it (the condition just spelled out) is the feature of this age of the human race in God's overall plan. It is a Hebraism like those in the OT where a place or city was said to be there forever, yet we find a few centuries later that it is smithereens. It meant for the foreseeable generations.

2 Peter 3:10 & 12 would be connected to deut 32:22 and similar.

The curse was already removed from the earth through the flood as per Gen 5:29., thus the earth does not need destroyed and remade. Harboring this concept allows for the raping of the earth rather than wise stewardship and conservatiin.


The curse and felt personal shame/fear,seperation of the conditional garden law AND the corporal conditional blessings through mossic law were removed/canceled by God/Jesus as the seed promised to Eve and by the faith and adherants of the apostles/diciples to Jesus and his freeing truths froml30-70 AD and continuing.

The 3rd heavens (after pre-flood heavens, and mosauc covt heavens) are the laws and truths dekivered by/through God/Christ. The 3rd/new earth is the life of the adherant and the 'country' or area of sojourn in which they effect. As Steve Miller sings in 'living in the USA'; wete living in a plastic (flexible) land.

Yes, Peter goes into some detail about the physical environment before the flood, and I csn understand the argument of that point, but the details of the religiius environment and its stipulative, conditional oppressiin were known to his audience and partly mentiined in the surrounding context.

Additiinally , the mosaic covt was prophecied to end "like a flood" in Dan 9:26,27 & Is 59.

..

 

[Notrash]

Judgment day occurred in A.D. 70, the great white throne of judgment is the throne Christ has sat on since A.D. 30 after ascending into heaven. We will all encounter this throne one day.

The resurrection is out of paradise into heaven in A.D. 70.

New Heaven and New Earth is covenantal in nature, not cosmic in nature.

New Jerusalem is heaven.

The two witnesses many believe are the law and prophets,

or the transfiguration pair (Elijah and Moses),

or John the Baptist and Jesus,

or Peter and Paul, etc.

I'm not sure who the two witnesses are myself either, but there is a mentiin of 2 witnesses in Is 7. Also the olive tree is mentioned as a witness through some cross refererences in the one study bible I have.

There are two representations of the tri-unity in the OT which Paul relates to an olive tree in Rom 9-11. They are Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel and Jesse, David and Solomon. (REV 22:16).

Believers were pre-characterized and foretyped as Jacob/Israel and Solomon and are partakers of the richness and fatness of the Father (pre-characterized by Abraham & Jesse) by faith in/eating of the Son (precharacterized by Isaac & David.). This gives some insight into Pauls mention of the first century unbelieving individual jews being lopped off from the father FOR DISBELIEF, but being able to be graffed in again if they would individually come to the obedience and freedom of faith in Jesus (Isaac/David).


I'd lean toward the idea that they eere not literal men but teachings and doctrines which one or more of these options symbolized since symbolic representation of OT happenings being fulfilled in the first century is a common occurance ir even precedent in the letter of Rev.

I also note that both Elijah and moses parted waters with their staffs.