Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

[robycop3]

Jesus had already said of His generation in Luke 21:11 that "...There will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven..." What part about "fearful sights and great signs from heaven" do you not understand? Jesus included these phenomena along with ALL the list of events He had enumerated in Luke 21:8-35. EVERY ONE OF THEM - including His return - was an imminent event. As Christ told His disciples, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are ABOUT TO COME TO PASS, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Those "fearful sights and great signs from heaven" were also "ABOUT TO COME TO PASS" in Christ's generation. Josephus recorded when they happened. What do I care if this was possibly done to impress Vespasian? That doesn't change the facts just as Christ stated them, as you are so fond of saying. You certainly are bold in attempting to read the mind and heart motives of that high priest's son, now that we are some 2,000 years down the road from that time.

Any good employee knows very well the general scriptural principle for a work ethic that "Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master will be honored." So what if Josephus tried to avoid offending his patron, so that he would benefit by his works being published? That would hardly negate everything he wrote.

No, Jesus was speaking about the END TIMES. Remember, jesus said in V9 that "the end is not yet".

 

[robycop3]

Tacitus affirmed Josephus' account.

Explain how Tacitus is "nobody else".

He was a Roman historian with no need to impress anyone.

Still awaiting your nonexistent evidence.

Name, date, source, verbatim quote; please. And a link for confirmation.

Meanwhile, from the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges:

"Both Tacitus and Josephus mention the portent that “Fierce fiery warriors fought upon the clouds, In rank, and squadron, and right form of war;”
and Tacitus tells us how the blind multitude of Jews interpreted these signs in their own favour (Hist. v. 13)."

No; Tacitus simply repeated it.

 

[jgr]

No; Tacitus simply repeated it.

Why would he, a Roman historian, affirm the account of a Jewish historian?

Still awaiting your nonexistent evidence.

Name, date, source, verbatim quote; please. And a link for confirmation.

 

[claninja]

Well, actually, they wanted to do things as before; they just didn't have a temple to di them in, same as today.

they tried to do it before around 362-363
ad, under Julian the apostate. It didn’t go so well.

(https://catholicexchange.com/greatest-historical-miracle-youve-never-heard)

let Christ’s words ring true, that we no longer worship God in Jerusalem, in a house made by human hands, but we worship in spirit. The old has forever vanished. We are now in the everlasting new covenant.

 

[robycop3]

Why would he, a Roman historian, affirm the account of a Jewish historian?

Still awaiting your nonexistent evidence.

Name, date, source, verbatim quote; please. And a link for confirmation.

Only Tacitus could answer that. And he didn't affirm it; he only repeated it.

 

[Hammster]

Only Tacitus could answer that. And he didn't affirm it; he only repeated it.

Prove it.

 

[robycop3]

they tried to do it before around 362-363
ad, under Julian the apostate. It didn’t go so well.

(https://catholicexchange.com/greatest-historical-miracle-youve-never-heard)

let Christ’s words ring true, that we no longer worship God in Jerusalem, in a house made by human hands, but we worship in spirit. The old has forever vanished. We are now in the everlasting new covenant.

But when the Jews build a new temple in Jerusalem, they will resume the old system, although in reality it's defunct.

 

[Hammster]

But when the Jews build a new temple in Jerusalem, they will resume the old system, although in reality it's defunct.

Prove it.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Jews were in what's now Turkey long ago & for a good while. And the Jews in Israel fulfilled parts of Isaiah 19 , that Judah would be a terror unto the Egyptians.

And Scripture is certainly NOT against my belief! God said He's gonna unite Judah & Israel into one nation again.

He already did at Pentecost. So, show us where He said He would gather them a third time after the Messiah fails to. (Which is implied by your doctrine.)
Isaiah 11:10In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
11In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush,a from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.

All of the same places mentioned in Isaiah are gathered at Pentecost.
Acts2:
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.7Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

 

[jgr]

Only Tacitus could answer that. And he didn't affirm it; he only repeated it.

Your speculations are far phonier than a Ford Corvette.

Tacitus, a Roman, would not have risked his reputation as a historian by merely affirming the account of Josephus, a Jew; given the possibility that Josephus might prove to be wrong.

It is logically obvious that Tacitus, a Roman, would have solicited and obtained the evidence for his historical account from dependable Roman sources, many of whom would have witnessed the phenomena.

Tacitus accurately recorded their testimonies, and in so doing also corroborated and confirmed Josephus' account.

We are privileged to have those accounts today.

Meanwhile, I've presented multiple examples of the affirmation of these accounts through the centuries in the Christian Church.

You've presented nothing.

Will that change?

Only you "could answer that".

 

[jgr]

Only Tacitus could answer that. And he didn't affirm it; he only repeated it.

Since English is apparently not your first language, contact your ESL mentor for an explanation of the relationship between "affirm" and "repeat".

Synonyms for "affirm".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

But when the Jews build a new temple in Jerusalem, they will resume the old system, although in reality it's defunct.

Where is this taught in scripture?

 

[3 Resurrections]

No, Jesus was speaking about the END TIMES. Remember, jesus said in V9 that "the end is not yet".

You are right in that Jesus was speaking about the END TIMES - the ones that Peter referred to when he wrote "The END of all things is at hand" in I Peter 4:7, which was around AD 65.

Jesus said in verse 9 that the disciples themselves would hear of wars and commotions, "but the end is not by and by". Have you any idea what that "by and by" phrase means? The modern-day perception is that it means "eventually" something will happen. Not in scripture, though, where this phrase means "IMMEDIATELY" . The disciples would hear of wars and commotions, "but the end is not IMMEDIATELY". The "Days of Vengeance" / aka the "Great Tribulation" would follow those "wars and commotions" which the disciples would hear about. It would be "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" the Great Tribulation that Christ would return - not "immediately after" the wars and commotions the disciples would hear about.

You are not dealing with the fact that Jesus included every one of those events from Luke 21:8-35 within the list of "ALL these things which are ABOUT TO COME TO PASS" in Luke 21:35. There is no ambiguity here in what Jesus said. Everything in that list, starting with the false Christs and the wars and commotions, all the way through Christ's return are ALL included in that list that Jesus gave the disciples which were "about to come to pass" in their near future.

 

[robycop3]

Prove it.

It's self-evident.

 

[robycop3]

Prove it.

It's in Scripture. There must be a temple for the beast/antichrist to enter to commit the AOD.

 

[robycop3]

Your speculations are far phonier than a Ford Corvette.

Tacitus, a Roman, would not have risked his reputation as a historian by merely affirming the account of Josephus, a Jew; given the possibility that Josephus might prove to be wrong.

It is logically obvious that Tacitus, a Roman, would have solicited and obtained the evidence for his historical account from dependable Roman sources, many of whom would have witnessed the phenomena.

Tacitus accurately recorded their testimonies, and in so doing also corroborated and confirmed Josephus' account.

We are privileged to have those accounts today.

Meanwhile, I've presented multiple examples of the affirmation of these accounts through the centuries in the Christian Church.

You've presented nothing.

Will that change?

Only you "could answer that".

Tacitus never wrote that he affirmed Josephus. account. He only repeated it.

 

[robycop3]

Since English is apparently not your first language, contact your ESL mentor for an explanation of the relationship between "affirm" and "repeat".

Synonyms for "affirm".

English is my only language.
"Affirm" means to assert as true or factual.
"repeat" means to say, do, or write something again.
Now, please show us where Tacitus AFFIRMED Josephus' stuff.

 

[robycop3]

Where is this taught in scripture?

2 Thess. 2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
That event didn't occur in the old temple, which is now gone, but that event WILL occur, so a new temple will have to be built for it to occur in.

 

[robycop3]

You are right in that Jesus was speaking about the END TIMES - the ones that Peter referred to when he wrote "The END of all things is at hand" in I Peter 4:7, which was around AD 65.

Jesus said in verse 9 that the disciples themselves would hear of wars and commotions, "but the end is not by and by". Have you any idea what that "by and by" phrase means? The modern-day perception is that it means "eventually" something will happen. Not in scripture, though, where this phrase means "IMMEDIATELY" . The disciples would hear of wars and commotions, "but the end is not IMMEDIATELY". The "Days of Vengeance" / aka the "Great Tribulation" would follow those "wars and commotions" which the disciples would hear about. It would be "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" the Great Tribulation that Christ would return - not "immediately after" the wars and commotions the disciples would hear about.

You are not dealing with the fact that Jesus included every one of those events from Luke 21:8-35 within the list of "ALL these things which are ABOUT TO COME TO PASS" in Luke 21:35. There is no ambiguity here in what Jesus said. Everything in that list, starting with the false Christs and the wars and commotions, all the way through Christ's return are ALL included in that list that Jesus gave the disciples which were "about to come to pass" in their near future.

...Except that it HASN'T YET OCCURRED. You simply CANNOT get by that big ole bear of a FACT.

Gentlemen, Gentlemen, GENTLEMEN...

You, Hammster, Ed, JGR, Spiritual Jew, etc. are all trying to sustain preterism by various paths & gates, but it just won't work. The ONLY thing that can sustain it is POSITIVE, EMPIRICAL PROOF that the eschatological events have already occurred,and you simply don't have that proof. So, you're trying to generate some. As a cop, I saw many a slick crook try to invent an alibi or an excuse, but we always saw through them & busted them. I'm sitting in front of a whole bookshelf full of history boox, and not one of them has one peep saying that any of those events have occurred. And I doubt if YOU have any, either. All my Bibles say those events WILL occur, not that they already HAVE.

Now, the "days of vengeance" was NOT the great trib. That trib will be WORLDWIDE, not just limited to Jerusalem. Its worst events are mentioned in Rev. 16.

And Jesus Himself said He'd return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the trib ends. So, if the trib has already occurred, He's 'WAY overdue. And He warned against thinking He would come in secret; he said His return would be IN GREAT GLORY AND POWER, visible to ALL, comparing it to lightning, which is not in secret.

Concerning His return, He will call all saints to Himself, & they'll be with Him in Jerusalem as He rules the world from there on David's throne for 1k years. That's all in Scripture. To see the picture, you must put all the eschatological Scriptures together, from Daniel thru Revelation.

So I sit here, confident in my position that preterism is indeed phony as a Ford Corvette, that position being sustained by Scripture & history. You simply cannot disprove it, NONE of you.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

2 Thess. 2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
That event didn't occur in the old temple, which is now gone, but that event WILL occur, so a new temple will have to be built for it to occur in.

It is not possible for a physical temple building to be "the temple of God" in the future. You're ignoring other scripture by coming to that conclusion.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

We, the church, are the temple of God! No physical temple building built in the future can possibly qualify to be called "the temple of God". You have no way around that.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Ephesians 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.