Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[3 Resurrections]

No they don't. There is no Scripture nor historical reference to a generation being 40 years. David in Psalms states a generation is 70 to 80 years. Psalms 90:10

Here's one text. Hebrews 3:9-10. "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works 40 YEARS. Wherefore I was grieved with THAT GENERATION, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways." That 40 years was for the generation of Israelites wandering in the wilderness.

David in Psalms 90:10 was speaking of a man's entire life-span. A generation usually is considered to be from a father's birth to the birth of his own children - the next "generation". As Hammster said above, this does not have to be as precise as 40 years to the very day.

 

[claninja]

Think I am mad with all the spiritualization?

John 10:20

• "And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?"

Well, we aren't the first to be called mad when they spoke of "spiritual" things, and so I guess we are in good company. Spiritual understanding has always been "foolishness" to some. When Christ said you must be born again, people asked how they could get back into their mother again. When Christ said you must eat my flesh, his disciples left him in droves and walked with him no more. When Christ said to destroy this temple and people thought He wanted a physical temple being destroyed. Because they had no spiritual understanding. It is written:

1st Corinthians 2:13-14

• "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

So that many (including disciples before the filling of the Holy Spirit) do not understand the things of the Spirit is not a surprise to me, and shouldn't be to other Christians. As it is a given.

The disciples, as well as people like you, thought Christ was talking about the physical temple when Christ said "see those things" but He had something else in mind that He was talking about which I already proved with Scripture earlier. Go learn the meaning of the stones, the temple falling and in three days it rebuilt (with what?), etc.. I did not spiritualize those, Christ did. You have to search in Scripture to find His interpretation. Spiritual discernment

John 2:19 uses “naós” for the temple, that is Christs body, as explained by John. naós is also used to describe the church (2 Corinthians 6:16).

Matthew 24:1 uses “hierón”, which describes the temple complex, and is NEVER used to describe the church.

So I disagree with your spiritualization of hierón, in Matthew 24, to mean the body of Christ, as no one else in the NT spiritualizes “hierón” to mean the body of Christ.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I was asked about the physical Temple. I missed nothing

One needs to have spiritual discernment to understand what Temple Christ actually talked about. Simply as that.

 

[TribulationSigns]

John 2:19 uses “naós” for the temple, that is Christs body, as explained by John. naós is also used to describe the church (2 Corinthians 6:16).

Matthew 24:1 uses “hierón”, which describes the temple complex, and is NEVER used to describe the church.

So I disagree with your spiritualization of hierón, in Matthew 24, to mean the body of Christ, as no one else in the NT spiritualizes “hierón” to mean the body of Christ.

Think so? So you insisted that only "naos" applies to the church?

Okay... how about 2nd Thess 2:3-4 where the man of sin sits in the temple? What does the flawed Preterism view of the temple ("naos") in 2nd Thess 2:4, then? Physical Jewish temple or church? Gonna be interesting to hear your answer on this.

 

[Truth7t7]

Correct, the end refers to the end of temple practices, as the context of the Olivet discourse is fall of the temple - not one stone will stand upon another.

Jesus Christ spoke of a symbolic destruction of the Temple seen, and the Temple destroyed was his literal body as scripture clearly teaches below

"Destroy This Temple" as Jesus and the Pharisees viewed the temple that took 46 years to build

Interpretation: But he spake of the temple of his body

"Yes" Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, would be found in the court of the Pharisees literal interpretation

Once Again, 66-70AD Jerusalems destruction had absolutely "Nothing" to do with fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, Mark Chapter 13, or Luke Chapter 21

John 2:18-22KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Truth7t7]

Correct, the end refers to the end of temple practices, as the context of the Olivet discourse is fall of the temple - not one stone will stand upon another.

Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD, Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation, these are future events unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

Except it doesn’t say that. You have to do violence to the text to get it to say that. To prove this, see how Jesus uses “this generation” elsewhere. It always refers to the generation He’s talking to.

"This Generation" is a future generation that will be eyewitnesses of the events, just as Luke teaches below, a parallel teaching of Matthew Chapter 24

The church is seen on earth below, being eyewitnesses of the great tribulation and second coming right?

Luke 21 Below Right?

"The Church" seen in Luke 21 below, those who are persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ, they will be eyewitnesses of the future great tribulation and second coming of Jesus in the heavens, your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture would be false

The Tribulation verses 25-26 below, the Second Coming verses 27-28 below

"Yes" The Church On Earth, Hated By The World For The Name Of Jesus (Verse 17)

Luke 21:17 & 25-28KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

What Generation? Those who will be eyewitnesses of the events seen above, and it didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, it's future unfulfilled

Luke 21:32KJV
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Hammster]

"This Generation" is a future generation that will be eyewitnesses of the events, just as Luke teaches below, a parallel teaching of Matthew Chapter 24

The church is seen on earth below, being eyewitnesses of the great tribulation and second coming right?

Luke 21 Below Right?

"The Church" seen in Luke 21 below, those who are persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ, they will be eyewitnesses of the future great tribulation and second coming of Jesus in the heavens, your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture would be false

The Tribulation verses 25-26 below, the Second Coming verses 27-28 below

"Yes" The Church On Earth, Hated By The World For The Name Of Jesus (Verse 17)

Luke 21:17 & 25-28KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

What Generation? Those who will be eyewitnesses of the events seen above, and it didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, it's future unfulfilled

Luke 21:32KJV
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

That’s eisegesis. You are ignoring the use of the words in order to promote your understanding. There’s absolutely no way to get “this generation” to mean “a future generation” outside of reading your presupposition into it.

 

[claninja]

Think so? So you insisted that only "naos" applies to the church?

Okay... how about 2nd Thess 2:3-4 where the man of sin sits in the temple? What does the flawed Preterism view of the temple ("naos") in 2nd Thess 2:4, then? Physical Jewish temple or church? Gonna be interesting to hear your answer on this.

I’ve never insisted that “naos” only applies to the body of Christ. “Naos” can refer to the temple building as indicated by the gospels.

As for 2 Thessalonians 2, I’m not dogmatic about Paul’s use “naos”. I admit it’s totally possible he could be talking about the body of Christ.

but your deflection doesn’t address the use of “hieron” in Matthew 24:1. Hieron is NEVER used of the body of Christ in the gospels nor epistles. That’s how we know Christ is talking about the temple complex “hieron” , and not the body of Christ “naos”.

 

[claninja]

Jesus Christ spoke of a symbolic destruction of the Temple seen, and the Temple destroyed was his literal body as scripture clearly teaches below

"Destroy This Temple" as Jesus and the Pharisees viewed the temple that took 46 years to build

Interpretation: But he spake of the temple of his body

"Yes" Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, would be found in the court of the Pharisees literal interpretation

Once Again, 66-70AD Jerusalems destruction had absolutely "Nothing" to do with fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, Mark Chapter 13, or Luke Chapter 21

John 2:18-22KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

John 2:19 uses “naos” to refer to the temple of his body. “Naos” can and is used multiple times to refer to the spiritual temple of God in the NT.

But Matthew 24:1 uses “hieron”, which means the temple complex. It is never used in the gospels or epistles to mean the church.

The “hieron” or temple complex was literally destroyed within Jesus’ generation, so I disagree with your interpretation.

 

[Truth7t7]

That’s eisegesis. You are ignoring the use of the words in order to promote your understanding. There’s absolutely no way to get “this generation” to mean “a future generation” outside of reading your presupposition into it.

1.) What's near even at the doors?
(The Second Coming)

2.) What's the day and hour no man knows? (The Second Coming)

Yes you deny a literal, visible, second coming is seen in Matthew 24:30, and claim its a "Symbolic Judgement"

Why? Because your entire claim that Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation took place in 70AD Jerusalem falls apart, can't have a 70AD great tribulation, and a future second coming,so it's removed with one wave of the magic wand, it becomes a "Symbolic Judgement" "Wrong"

It's a "Future Generation" that will see "All Things Fulfilled" and it wasn't all fulfilled in 70AD Jerusalem

If that day that no man knows took place in 70AD Jerusalem, then we are men that know that day and hour historically, it's a future event unfulfilled

In Love, Jesus Is My Lord

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Hammster]

1.) What's near even at the doors?
(The Second Coming)

It doesn’t say that in context.

2.) What's the day and hour no man knows? (The Second Coming)

It doesn’t say that in context.

Yes you deny a literal, visible, second coming is seen in Matthew 24:30, and claim its a "Symbolic Judgement"

Because that is the OT language that’s used, much like in other parts of Matt 24.

Why? Because your entire claim that Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation took place in 70AD Jerusalem falls apart, can't have a 70AD great tribulation, and a future second coming,so it's removed with one wave of the magic wand, it becomes a "Symbolic Judgement" "Wrong"

No, because Jesus says it will happen in that generation. You are using language (second coming) that I’ve not used, and then are criticizing my view as if I used it.

It's a "Future Generation" that will see "All Things Fulfilled" and it wasn't all fulfilled in 70AD Jerusalem

Eisegesis

If that day that no man knows took place in 70AD Jerusalem, then we are men that know that day and hour historically, it's a future event unfulfilled

Those at the time didn’t know the day or the hour. They did know it would happen within that generation. And Jesus gave them signs to look for.

In Love, Jesus Is My Lord

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

It wasn’t written to you, though. So those He was talking to would see the signs and know that judgment was coming to Jerusalem.

 

[Truth7t7]

John 2:19 uses “naos” to refer to the temple of his body. “Naos” can and is used multiple times to refer to the spiritual temple of God in the NT.

But Matthew 24:1 uses “hieron”, which means the temple complex. It is never used in the gospels or epistles to mean the church.

The “hieron” or temple complex was literally destroyed within Jesus’ generation, so I disagree with your interpretation.

I Disagree With Your Interpretation

Of course Jesus was looking at a literal temple in Jerusalem and as he spoke with the pharisees in John he stated destroy this temple, as the parishes were stating a literal temple of stone that took 46 years to build

Yes the mystery is revealed to the reader, it wasn't a temple of stone to be destroyed, but the Lord's body, it's that simple

John 2:20 Temple, "Naos"

We Disagree, Jesus Is My Lord

John 2:20KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Mark 14:58 explicitly reveals the mystery, as it was a temple made with hands that was talked about, simple and clear

Mark 14:58 Temple, "Naos"

Mark 14:58KJV
58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

 

[Truth7t7]

It doesn’t say that in context.

It doesn’t say that in context.

Because that is the OT language that’s used, much like in other parts of Matt 24.

No, because Jesus says it will happen in that generation. You are using language (second coming) that I’ve not used, and then are criticizing my view as if I used it.

Eisegesis

Those at the time didn’t know the day or the hour. They did know it would happen within that generation. And Jesus gave them signs to look for.

It wasn’t written to you, though. So those He was talking to would see the signs and know that judgment was coming to Jerusalem.

The complete chapter of Matthew 24 is dedicated to the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Chirist and the literal end of this world, and it didn't take place "Symbolically" in 70AD Jerusalem, as reformed preterist eschatology teaches

We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

[Hammster]

The complete chapter of Matthew 24 is dedicated to the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Chirist and the literal end of this world, and it didn't take place "Symbolically" in 70AD Jerusalem, as reformed preterist eschatology teaches

You are reading your view into the text.

We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

World is aion. It means “age”. And we know that the OT age was ending.

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
— Hebrews 8:13

 

[Truth7t7]

You are reading your view into the text.

World is aion. It means “age”. And we know that the OT age was ending.

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
— Hebrews 8:13

We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:30 & Matthew 13:41 same event of the Lord's gathering, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem, it's a future event unfulfilled

Matthew 24:3 & 30-31KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Same event of the Lord sending and angels gathering as seen above in Matthew 24:30 (The End Of The World)

Matthew 13:38-43KJV
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Matthew 24:30 & Matthew 13:41 same event of the Lord's gathering, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem, it's a future event unfulfilled

Did you ever consider that it might not be a choice between EITHER an AD 70 coming OR a future coming unfulfilled as yet, but BOTH of these could be true?

 

[Hammster]

We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:30 & Matthew 13:41 same event of the Lord's gathering, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem, it's a future event unfulfilled

Matthew 24:3 & 30-31KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Same event of the Lord sending and angels gathering as seen above in Matthew 24:30 (The End Of The World)

Matthew 13:38-43KJV
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And all happened to that generation. I’m not sure what you think you are accomplishing by posting the same verses over and over.

 

[Truth7t7]

Did you ever consider that it might not be a choice between EITHER an AD 70 coming OR a future coming unfulfilled as yet, but BOTH of these could be true?

Did you ever consider that reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD Jerusalem fulfillment is wrong, and the great tribulation and second coming are future events unfulfilled?

 

[Truth7t7]

And all happened to that generation. I’m not sure what you think you are accomplishing by posting the same verses over and over.

Just showing those following the conversation, that the Lord didn't send forth his angels to gather from the earth in 70AD Jerusalem as you claim, you can't wrap it all up and say it was a "Symbolic Judgement" on Jerusalem, all is said and done

The literal, visible,, second coming and (gathering/resurrection) seen is future, it's that simple, the events didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem

Just as dispensationalism claims a pre-trib rapture is seen in scripture, 70AD preterist fulfillment is in the same camp, both teachings aren't found in scripture

For the readers following

Horse is dead, next!

Jesus Is The Lord