Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[3 Resurrections]

Please don't waste your time telling me things you've already told me several times before. What is the point? I didn't agree before and I'm not going to agree now. You have decided that everything relating to the future except unrevealed prophecies were going to happen soon after the book was written and that has led to you coming up with one of the most ridiculous interpretations of Revelation 20 that I've ever seen. So be it.

I don't mean to be irritating, but you DID quote something I said, and I am merely responding. If you aren't interested in a rehash, then all you have to do is to never quote anything I write. I do notice that you are ignoring Ezekiel 12:21-28 completely, where God tells us how we are to interpret the term "at hand". We don't even need to consult a Hebrew lexicon, since God makes it very clear how He wants an "at hand" prophecy to be understood.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I don't mean to be irritating, but you DID quote something I said, and I am merely responding. If you aren't interested in a rehash, then all you have to do is to never quote anything I write.

Okay, I'll make a point to remind myself that no matter what I say to you, you'll just respond with the same response every time. Got it.

I do notice that you are ignoring Ezekiel 12:21-28 completely, where God tells us how we are to interpret the term "at hand". We don't even need to consult a Hebrew lexicon, since God makes it very clear how He wants an "at hand" prophecy to be understood.

So, you think we should get our understanding of Greek words used in the New Testament solely from one passage in the Old Testament? That's interesting.

But, I'm not even really arguing against that. I'm arguing against the idea that everything written in Revelation was "at hand". As I pointed out before, Revelation 1:19 shows that John was to write about things that happened in the past, things that were happening at the time and things that would happen after that which would be things that would happen up until the second coming of Christ and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth.

 

[3 Resurrections]

So, you think we should get our understanding of Greek words used in the New Testament solely from one passage in the Old Testament? That's interesting.

How many times does God have to explain His own terms for us to accept it? Once is enough for me.

But, I'm not even really arguing against that. I'm arguing against the idea that everything written in Revelation was "at hand".

And I have said that I agree from Revelation 1:19 that John wrote across the spectrum of time: from ancient days when the millennium first began, up to John's present days, and into the near future to John's days. But only the "sealed up" prophecies of Revelation 10:4 included prophecies for distant future times after the "at hand" prophecies were fulfilled in John's near future.

Unsealed, or "sealed up". That is the difference between a near future fulfillment and a distant future fulfillment, according to Daniel's interpreting angel (Daniel 12:4 and 9).

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Why is it simple for the rest of us to understand and not for Preterists? Because it cuts across their teaching. It exposes it! If one has eyes to see, one should easily recognize the speaker, context and meaning. It is not hard to grasp.

2 Peter 3:3-15 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

We glean a lot of helpful detail here relating to what happens to the creature and creation when Jesus comes, and what immediately follows. If we are able to divorce ourselves from what we have been taught, we are looking at a very climactic picture.

• Unquestionably, the focus of this message is directed to the end-time-cynics who question God.
• These fools question God keeping His “promise.” What promise? It is “the promise of his coming.”
• The scorn and derision of these foolish last days scoffers and mockers are directed specifically towards the reality and occurrence of Christ’s future coming.
• This text shows us that today is the only day of salvation. Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Romans 2:4 reaffirms that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming.
• The actual wrath described by the Holy Spirit comes suddenly and unexpectedly upon these foolish last days scoffers and mockers. There is no escape. They are the recipients of total destruction.
• We also see in this reading that “the day of the Lord will arrive (or heko) as a thief in the night; in the which (en heé)” or literally translated “in which” (the word “the” being absent from the original). The detail described arrives with Jesus.
• What happens to creation when Jesus arrives? 1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise. 2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, 3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. 4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. The Premillennialist claims to be a literalist, so there is no spiritualization that can explain this away. It is water-tight.
• The description of the destruction could not be more comprehensive. It is undoubtedly the end. It involves wholesale and unavoidable annihilation for the wicked. It embraces the full gamut of fallen creation.
• What is this replaced with? The Holy Spirit tells us that it the “new heavens and a new earth” that follows Christ’s return.
• The arrival of the “new heavens and a new earth” are here significantly connected to “his promise.”
• The Holy Spirit then assures the last days elect that their lot is not wrath or destruction. They experience the new heavens and new earth at His appearing.

Jude said the scoffers had entered the church. Just follow the pronouns and Jude's reminder.
Both of Peters letters were written to the "dispersion" and they would understand the kind of apocalyptic hyperbole which is prevalent throughout the old covenant. On the other hand, Paul says this: 2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
This corresponds perfectly with Revelation 21:
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
and He will dwell with them.
They will be His people,
and God Himself will be with them as their God.b4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’c
and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”


A sample:
Micah 1:3For behold, the LORD is coming out of his place,
and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.
4And the mountains will melt under him,
and the valleys will split open,
like wax before the fire,
like waters poured down a steep place.
5All this is for the transgression of Jacob
and for the sins of the house of Israel.


Isaiah 34
1Come near, O nations, to listen;
pay attention, O peoples.
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it,
the world and all that springs from it.2The LORD is angry with all the nations
and furious with all their armies.
He will devote them to destruction;
He will give them over to slaughter.3Their slain will be left unburied,
and the stench of their corpses will rise;
the mountains will flow with their blood.4All the stars of heaven will be dissolved.
The skies will be rolled up like a scroll,
and all their stars will fall
like withered leaves from the vine,
like foliage from the fig tree.
5When My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens,
then it will come down upon Edom,

The new testament use of "elements":
Galatians 4:3 N-ANP
GRK: ὑπὸ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου
NAS: under the elemental things of the world.
KJV: under the elements of the world:
INT: under the basic principles of the world

Galatians 4:9 N-ANP
GRK: καὶ πτωχὰ στοιχεῖα οἷς πάλιν
NAS: and worthless elemental things, to which
KJV: beggarly elements, whereunto
INT: and beggarly principles to which again

Colossians 2:8 N-ANP
GRK: κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου
NAS: according to the elementary principles of the world,
KJV: after the rudiments of the world,
INT: according to the principles of the world

Colossians 2:20 N-GNP
GRK: ἀπὸ τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου
NAS: with Christ to the elementary principles of the world,
KJV: from the rudiments of the world,
INT: from the principles of the world

Hebrews 5:12 N-NNP
GRK: τινὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τῆς ἀρχῆς
NAS: to teach you the elementary principles
KJV: [be] the first principles of the oracles
INT: what [are] the principles of the beginning

2 Peter 3:10 N-NNP
GRK: ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα
NAS: with a roar and the elements will be destroyed
KJV: and the elements shall melt
INT: with rushing noise will pass away elements moreover burning with heat

2 Peter 3:12 N-NNP
GRK: λυθήσονται καὶ στοιχεῖα καυσούμενα τήκεται
NAS: by burning, and the elements will melt
KJV: and the elements shall melt
INT: will be dissolved and [the] elements burning with heat shall melt

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How many times does God have to explain His own terms for us to accept it? Once is enough for me.

You think the definition of Greek words were explained in a text written in Hebrew. Okay then.

And I have said that I agree from Revelation 1:19 that John wrote across the spectrum of time: from ancient days when the millennium first began, That is up to John's present days,

In my view you're way off the rails here. The millennium did not begin in ancient days before John's present days. That is one of the most ridiculous beliefs I've ever seen. The beginning of the thousand years clearly coincides with the beginning of Christ's reign and He clearly didn't begin to reign until after His resurrection.

and into the near future to John's days. But only the "sealed up" prophecies of Revelation 10:4 included prophecies for distant future times after the "at hand" prophecies were fulfilled in John's near future.

Unsealed, or "sealed up". That is the difference between a near future fulfillment and a distant future fulfillment, according to Daniel's interpreting angel (Daniel 12:4 and 9).

That's your opinion, but it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

John wrote about things in the past such as Christ's birth and ascension, things that were happening at the time like what he described in Revelation 2 and 3 that were happening in the seven churches at the time, and things that would happen after that up until the second coming of Christ and ushering in of the new heavens and new earth which haven't yet occurred. It has nothing to do with things that were unsealed or sealed. Christ's return, the day of judgment and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth have clearly not yet occurred and they are written about, so this sealed/unsealed thing is baseless, in my opinion.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jude said the scoffers had entered the church. Just follow the pronouns and Jude's reminder.
Both of Peters letters were written to the "dispersion" and they would understand the kind of apocalyptic hyperbole which is prevalent throughout the old covenant. On the other hand, Paul says this: 2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
This corresponds perfectly with Revelation 21:
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
and He will dwell with them.
They will be His people,
and God Himself will be with them as their God.b4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’c
and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”

You're applying a verse that relates to an individual's new life in Christ to a verse that talks about the new heavens and new earth. That's not the same thing. Also, what John said here has clearly not happened yet:

Revelation 21:4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

People are still dying and crying and are still in pain. As Peter said, the new heavens and new earth will be a place where righteousness dwells. Where only righteousness dwells. The absence of wickedness goes along with the fact that there will be no more death, sorrow, crying or pain at that time. That has not happened yet.

What do you think, that things will just keep going on forever like they are now? Do you think sin and death and suffering will go on forever? If not, then what scripture do you think speaks of the end of those things if not scripture like 2nd Peter 3 and Revelation 21?

 

[claninja]

Yes, but it does not refer to the amount of time it takes to come near. It refers to the fact that something is getting nearer every day regardless of how long it might be until it actually arrives. Christ's return has slowly been approaching for almost 2,000 years. Your death started approaching the day you were born.

Sure, if the verb is in the present tense, I completely agree. But that’s not true in the perfect tense.

 

[claninja]

That's someone's (J. Schlosser's) opinion that you've decided to agree with, yes. I don't agree with him or with you. I understand that the word is normally used to describe things that are happening soon, but it doesn't have to only be used to refer to things that would happen literally soon.

That’s not a counter argument. Please provide evidence that the perfect tense doesn’t mean what helps word studies states

 

[3 Resurrections]

The beginning of the thousand years clearly coincides with the beginning of Christ's reign and He clearly didn't begin to reign until after His resurrection.

No, scripture never says that the millennium began with that event. You are incorrectly putting the emphasis on Christ beginning a reign at the start of the millennium. Instead, scripture's parameters limit the duration of the millennium by a beginning and end of Satan's deception being bound - not a beginning of Christ's reign.

The three persons of the Trinity have always reigned over creation, and always will. There is no stop and start to this continuous reign. Now, it is true that there are different phases displaying a different kind of manifestation of that continuous reign, (such as you are stating about the resurrected Christ being given a kingdom as a high priest on His throne at His ascension), but that doesn't mean the Trinity was ever absent from the throne with ruling over the creation.

As Peter said, the new heavens and new earth will be a place where righteousness dwells. Where only righteousness dwells.

You have added the underlined portion above, which scripture does not include. Righteousness can dwell in the world without every single person without exception being righteous. Christ is said to "rule in the midst of His enemies", meaning enemies are still present. Isaiah 65:20 describes the NHNE with sinners present in that NHNE reality. Just like there are still all kinds of wicked persons outside the gates of the New Jerusalem in Revelation 22:15. The description of the NHNE conditions is what we have present in the world today. The NHNE is not a description of the afterlife. It is only one step closer to that final state. The NHNE was not supposed to be the ultimate end which we are destined for in the final resurrection when all human evil WILL be completely purged from this planet at that time.

 

[sovereigngrace]

helps word studies is skewed, bias, and unobjective?

by the way, Approach means to literally come near.

According to what you have been taught, but not according to definition. Approach means it is impending.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Apologies for appearing to link you with robycop3's position. I was merely trying to save space by combining both responses in one post.

By the manner in which you replied, it seems you are of the common perception that scripture only speaks of two ages in total. It doesn't limit it to only two ages. There are more. By checking Paul's language when he speaks about ages, there are at least a total of five ages spoken of in scripture. I believe there are a total of 7 millennial ages into which fallen man's history is divided, to be followed by an 8th age when you and I will be resurrected and in God's presence during that age, and all ages to come from then on.

Currently we are at the close of the sixth millennnial age, and just about to enter the 7th millennial age. in little more than a decade. That is why we have the current worldwide turmoil of these present times. It's a transition phase.

But back in John's days, at that time, the transition to the "end" was the end of the "holy people", just as Daniel 12:7 predicted. By the time all of Daniel's prophecies were finished, the power of the holy people was going to be shattered. Which it was by the close of AD 70 when their beloved temple and city of Jerusalem was torn down to the last stone. The end of the "sanctuary of strength" which Daniel 11:31 called the temple was the end of the power of Daniel's people.

When scripture speaks of the heaven and earth "passing away", this was not going to be their annihilation. They were to be "changed like a garment" as Hebrews 1:12 tells us. The present heaven and earth are indeed changed from what they were back in AD 70. That is mainly due to the Satanic realm being eradicated from this world and destroyed to ashes at that time. Heaven was also changed since then, because the resurrected saints who had died before that year were finally admitted into heaven's temple. For the first time ever, the resurrected Christ presented those children of the kingdom to the Father in heaven with exceeding joy. And in the final resurrection for us in the future, we get to join them.

Christ and the New Testament writers recognize two overriding ages in their teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. One refers to mortal life on earth in the here-and-now, and the other refers to our eternal state. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of our day with the glory and rest of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity. The pivotal event that divides these two diverse ages is the glorious climactic return of Jesus Christ.

Scripture makes it abundantly clear that there is no intervening time-period or temporal age in between “this age” and “the age to come.” It is within the bounds of this juxtapose alone that we understand the whole eschatological arrangement, with its two unique diverse worlds. Johnathan Menn points out that the New Testament “gives us a clear, consistent and comprehensive eschatological interpretive structure. That structure is the ‘two ages’: … ‘this age’ and the ‘age to come’. The terminology of the two ages is the key concept for understanding biblical eschatology. A proper understanding of how this age and the age to come fit together renders biblical eschatology both understandable and coherent” (Biblical Eschatology).

This current evil age

Galatians 1:4 tells us that Christ “gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world [Gr. aion or age], according to the will of God and our Father.”

According to this passage, what is “this age” particularly known for? What sets it apart from the age to come?

It is “evil”! The Greek word for evil is poneros! The meaning of this word is: “hurtful in effect or influence.” The word indicates ‘degeneracy from original virtue’. We do not need to look too far to realize that it is talking about our current age. In fact, evil has been with us since the fall, and will be with us to the second coming. This gives us immediate insight into the starting and finishing point of “this age.”

This age is constantly depicted throughout Scripture as being plagued by the existence of sin, decay and death. It is never portrayed as a pleasant, pristine or lasting state. In fact, Galatians 1:4 describes this age as “this present evil age;” one that Christ came to “deliver” us from through His death. Evil marks the period of time in-between the fall and the second coming of Christ. We can therefore confidently conclude that “this age” that we are looking at is still with us.

Paul the apostle tells us in Ephesians 5:16 that we should be: “redeeming the time, because the days are evil.”

This is a present ongoing reality on planet earth.

Ephesians 6:13 expressly says, “take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”

God simply promises the Ephesians His divine power and protection in the midst of evil, something that is in keeping with His character throughout the Word of God.

That is why Scripture exhorts us in Romans 12:2: “be not conformed to this world [Gr. aion or age]: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

We are still there!

This is a spiritual directive that is applicable to man this side of eternity, or, right up until the day Christ returns. Believers are admonished not to be conformed to this world because it is a wicked debased world that is corrupted by sinful man. Anyone that would relate this state to any other time than “this present evil age” is clearly in error.

Perfection arrives with the age to come

The age to come has completely different, unique and elevated qualities that this age does not possess. It is characterized by incorruption, eternal life and perfection. It is a glorified existence that forbid any form of sin, mortality and corruption. Repeated Scripture tells us that the curse upon man will only last until Christ returns. It also tells us that the current heavens and earth will one day be replaced by a new regenerated heavens and earth. That is because the current arrangement has been corrupted by sin. As a consequence, our universe is finite and deteriorating, and its history will one day come to an end. All chronology currently sits in between creation and the consummation of all things. The whole of Scripture (Old Testament and New Testament) looks forward to the glorious day of restoration and perfection with expectancy. All creation waits with eager anticipation for that glorious moment when depravity and decay will finally be banished from creation forever.

Luke 20:27-33 records: “Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him, Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.”

Christ replies in Luke 20:34-36: “The children of this world [Gr. aion or age] marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world [Gr. aion or age], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

Luke adds more meat on the bones compared to what Matthew shares in his parallel account. Luke shows Christ rebuking the cunningness of the Sadducees and their attempt to deny a future physical resurrection at His return. Luke 20:27-36 clearly demonstrates that the defining moment of change between this age and the age to come is the time of the Lord’s return and the physical resurrection, not AD70 as Preterists claim. It is nowhere shown to be the change from the old covenant to the new covenant, as they argue.

It is impossible to miss the constant scriptural comparison between “this world” and “that world” or “this age” and “that age.” There is no additional age recognized. In text reinforces that repeated biblical truth. Those who live in this current evil age are described here as “the children of this world/age” but those who are depicted as being “worthy to obtain that age” to come are described exclusively as “the children of God, being the children of the resurrection” and are said to be “equal unto the angels.” There is no other way of reading this.

One must be appropriately qualified in order inherit the new world to come. They must be glorified on the day of redemption. Those that are worthy to obtain that age are not mortals and not sinners; they are rather glorified saints – who incidentally never marry or die.

Let us pause for a moment and consider what is being said here: people marry right up until the second coming, but in the age to come they don’t marry because the saints of God will be adorned with their new glorified eternal bodies. What is more: Christ shows that people die right up until the second coming but in the age to come they don’t die. Why? Because sin, sinners and the wicked are not welcome on the new glorified perfected earth that Christ introduces at the second coming.

The contrast here moves from: ‘marriage’ to ‘no marriage’, ‘death’ to ‘no death’. Marriage disappears! Death disappears! The turning point is the glorious coming of Christ and the resurrection that accompanies it.

Jesus outlines in clear tones the incorruptibility and the glory of the future state. This is not the case with the Premillennial and Preterist age to come; marriage, divorce, funerals and mourning continue unabated. This passage forbids both the Premillennial and Preterist theories.

 

[claninja]

According to what you have been taught, but not according to definition. Approach means it is impending.

“to come near or nearer to: The cars slowed down as they approached the intersection. to come near to in quality, character, time, or condition;” dictionary.com

if eggizo is present tense, then yes I agree, it can mean “coming nearer”. But not when it’s in the perfect tense. In the perfect tense it means literally near.

“1448 eggízō (from 1451 /eggýs, "near") – properly, has drawn close (come near). 1448 (eggízō) occurs 14 times in the Greek perfect tense (indicative mood) in the NT which expresses "extreme closeness, immediate imminence – even a presence ('It is here') because the moment of this coming happened (i.e. at the beginning of Jesus' ministry)" (J. Schlosser).”

 

[sovereigngrace]

Jude said the scoffers had entered the church. Just follow the pronouns and Jude's reminder.
Both of Peters letters were written to the "dispersion" and they would understand the kind of apocalyptic hyperbole which is prevalent throughout the old covenant. On the other hand, Paul says this: 2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
This corresponds perfectly with Revelation 21:
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
and He will dwell with them.
They will be His people,
and God Himself will be with them as their God.b4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’c
and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”


A sample:
Micah 1:3For behold, the LORD is coming out of his place,
and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.
4And the mountains will melt under him,
and the valleys will split open,
like wax before the fire,
like waters poured down a steep place.
5All this is for the transgression of Jacob
and for the sins of the house of Israel.


Isaiah 34
1Come near, O nations, to listen;
pay attention, O peoples.
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it,
the world and all that springs from it.2The LORD is angry with all the nations
and furious with all their armies.
He will devote them to destruction;
He will give them over to slaughter.3Their slain will be left unburied,
and the stench of their corpses will rise;
the mountains will flow with their blood.4All the stars of heaven will be dissolved.
The skies will be rolled up like a scroll,
and all their stars will fall
like withered leaves from the vine,
like foliage from the fig tree.
5When My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens,
then it will come down upon Edom,

The new testament use of "elements":
Galatians 4:3 N-ANP
GRK: ὑπὸ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου
NAS: under the elemental things of the world.
KJV: under the elements of the world:
INT: under the basic principles of the world

Galatians 4:9 N-ANP
GRK: καὶ πτωχὰ στοιχεῖα οἷς πάλιν
NAS: and worthless elemental things, to which
KJV: beggarly elements, whereunto
INT: and beggarly principles to which again

Colossians 2:8 N-ANP
GRK: κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου
NAS: according to the elementary principles of the world,
KJV: after the rudiments of the world,
INT: according to the principles of the world

Colossians 2:20 N-GNP
GRK: ἀπὸ τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου
NAS: with Christ to the elementary principles of the world,
KJV: from the rudiments of the world,
INT: from the principles of the world

Hebrews 5:12 N-NNP
GRK: τινὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τῆς ἀρχῆς
NAS: to teach you the elementary principles
KJV: [be] the first principles of the oracles
INT: what [are] the principles of the beginning

2 Peter 3:10 N-NNP
GRK: ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα
NAS: with a roar and the elements will be destroyed
KJV: and the elements shall melt
INT: with rushing noise will pass away elements moreover burning with heat

2 Peter 3:12 N-NNP
GRK: λυθήσονται καὶ στοιχεῖα καυσούμενα τήκεται
NAS: by burning, and the elements will melt
KJV: and the elements shall melt
INT: will be dissolved and [the] elements burning with heat shall melt

2+2=4, not 22. Our spirits being perfected upon salvation is completely different from our souls and body being perfected. The fact you do not see that is telling! It is also altogether different from creation being purged of the curse and perfected. It is frankly ridiculous to suggest otherwise. That is why most people look on Extreme Preterism as heretical.

Jesus said Luke 21:25-28, 36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative] … Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall (or mello or hereafter) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Luke 21 shows us what occurs at the climactic future coming of Christ. Not only will creation be glorified, the righteous will also experience the same. This is the moment when man and creation is simultaneously perfected. This is shown to be the realization of the final aspect of redemption. No one with any credence could surely try and attribute this to AD70. Various clear and repeated Scripture prove when the day of redemption is.

Ephesians 1:13-14 assures us that “ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 4:30 similarly states, “ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

That day is the climatic coming of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is here described as “that Holy Spirit of promise.” The word “earnest” here relates to a security down payment. It is taken from the Greek word arrhabon, which is from a Hebrew origin [meaning a pledge in advance as security for the rest. You have heard of earnest money. ‘It is a portion of something, given or done in advance as a promise of the remainder’. This seal is active until the time when Jesus comes and we shall be physically redeemed.

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

Let us establish a few absolutes:

· Glorification has not yet happened!
· We still live in corruptible bodies.
· The earth is still fallen.
· Sin and sickness, death and decay, are an ongoing reality for mankind.
· The renewal of the creature and creation are still to happen.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (phthora or decay) inherit incorruption (aphthrsia or unending existence). Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

This passage closely mirrors Romans 8, confirming that the last enemy is demolished at “the last trump.” Corruption finds it end when Christ comes in all His glory. This corroborates what Paul was teaching about “the bondage of corruption” being terminated when the elect are redeemed at Christ’s appearing. No one can deny the correlation between the glorification of the elect and the glorification of the earth. God’s people cannot populate an incorrupt earth. They need their bodies suitably attired in perfection to be able to enjoy that eternal state.

Revelation 22:3 tells us that the new heavens and new earth arrive “there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.”

The renewal of the earth is carefully tied to the renewal of fallen man; manifestly, as at the beginning so at the end. It is at this finishing stage that all the former consequences of the curse will be eternally removed from the elect through the glorification process. Moreover, this current earth will be simultaneously renewed by way of a fiery renewal.

Revelation 20:11-15, 21:1-5 and Revelation 22:3 describe the perfect conditions that are introduced when Jesus Christ returns. No one with any sanity could say that such a state exists today. It doesn’t! This only accompanies the glorification of this sin-cursed world, because justice has finally been executed upon sin. It is then and only then that there will be:

· No more dying.
· No more crying.
· No more pain.
· No more sorrow.
· No more curse.

While the elect of God finally enters into eternal bless, the wicked correspondingly experience eternal torment. They are shown to be banished into everlasting punishment.

 

[sovereigngrace]

“to come near or nearer to: The cars slowed down as they approached the intersection. to come near to in quality, character, time, or condition;” dictionary.com

if eggizo is present tense, then yes I agree, it can mean “coming nearer”. But not when it’s in the perfect tense. In the perfect tense it means literally near.

“1448 eggízō (from 1451 /eggýs, "near") – properly, has drawn close (come near). 1448 (eggízō) occurs 14 times in the Greek perfect tense (indicative mood) in the NT which expresses "extreme closeness, immediate imminence – even a presence ('It is here') because the moment of this coming happened (i.e. at the beginning of Jesus' ministry)" (J. Schlosser).”

You quote your bias proponents who are convinced of Preterism. You have to!

 

[claninja]

You quote your bias proponents who are convinced of Preterism. You have to!

this is a quite disappointing non response. Can you explain why helps word studies is wrong? Or is your only counter to shout “Preterism bias!”?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Christ and the New Testament writers recognize two overriding ages in their teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.”

But those aren't the only two ages. Check out Paul in Ephesians 3:21. "Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout ALL ages, world without end." If there were only two ages to be considered - and no more than those two - then Paul would have said "Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus in BOTH ages, world without end." This verse speaks of at least three ages of the church, and not one of them is the afterlife existence.

Here's another. 1 Corinthians 10:11. "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." From Paul's perspective on the timeline in the first century, by then the ends of plural ages had arrived for them at that time.

And another. Hebrews 9:26. "For then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." That is again plural ages that were culminating with Christ's crucifixion, and not one of them is the afterlife existence.

And another. Ephesians 2:6-7. "And hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. That in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us through Christ Jesus." Again, this is plural ages taking place in the time following the crucifixion.

When we consider all these texts collectively, they add up to at least five or more ages for humanity, and that isn't even including the afterlife existence for the saints in that total.

 

[sovereigngrace]

But those aren't the only two ages. Check out Paul in Ephesians 3:21. "Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout ALL ages, world without end." If there were only two ages to be considered - and no more than those two - then Paul would have said "Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus in BOTH ages, world without end." This verse speaks of at least three ages of the church, and not one of them is the afterlife existence.

Here's another. 1 Corinthians 10:11. "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." From Paul's perspective on the timeline in the first century, by then the ends of plural ages had arrived for them at that time.

And another. Hebrews 9:26. "For then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." That is again plural ages that were culminating with Christ's crucifixion, and not one of them is the afterlife existence.

And another. Ephesians 2:6-7. "And hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. That in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us through Christ Jesus." Again, this is plural ages taking place in the time following the crucifixion.

When we consider all these texts collectively, they add up to at least five or more ages for humanity, and that isn't even including the afterlife existence for the saints in that total.

As is the Preterist pattern, you totally ignored every Scripture and argument I presented. You have to do that. That is what is frustrating with engaging with Preterists. They never address the counter evidence. This exposes the fragility of their position and their disturbing fixation with the coming of Titus in AD70 instead of Christ's future glorious return at the end of the world.

When Christ or the apostles present a contrast between one age and another it is always between two overriding completely diverse states: time and eternity, corruption and incorruption, imperfection and perfection, mortality and immortality, and evil age and a righteous age.

Scripture does not contradict itself. There are only 2 ages recognized. When aion is used in a plural sense it normally refers to eternity. Your references refer to the ‘ongoing ages’ or simply eternity. Even in English, we use a similar term to describe eternity – namely “the aeons” (taken from Latin). In its context, this clearly refers to eternity. When the words aeon in Latin and aion in Greek are used in a singular sense they normally relate to this current temporal age, unless expressly describing the afterlife in a broad sweeping holistic way as the “age to come.” When used in a plural way, they normally refer to the impending eternal age that arrives at the second coming. When used in the plural it refers to an extremely long period or the eternal. In geology the plural word refers to the longest time period possible. Research of the original Greek will demonstrate that when used in a future sense the aions (plural) refer to future relate eternity.

Premillennialists and some Preterists present the reference to future “ages” in Ephesians 2:7 as support for the idea of a future age in-between “this age” and “the age to come.” However, that is certainly not the force of the passage. In fact, there is not the slightest hint of an intermediate age in between these two unique ages. Rather the opposite. The reference states, speaking of God: “That in the ages [Gr. aion plural noun – Strong’s 165] to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”

In the next chapter to Ephesians 2 in Ephesians 3:21 we see: “Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages [Gr. genea or generations – plural], world [Gr. aion singular noun – Strong’s 165] without end [Gr. aion singular noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

Ephesians 3:21 refers to the eternal state as “the age [of] the ages [Gr. toú aioónos toón aioónoon or the age of eternity].”

 

[3 Resurrections]

As is the Preterist pattern, you totally ignored every Scripture and argument I presented. You have to do that. That is what is frustrating with engaging with Preterists. They never address the counter evidence.

SG, this is not "counter evidence" you gave. Simply because the NT scriptures address the subject of that present age and an age after the resurrection does not refute the existence of more ages than those two. I did not address your discussion of the eternal state as distinguished from this present world because it is not really something which I disagree with.

A brief example. If a professor concentrated his class's attention on World War I and World War II for the theme of study during one semester, does that necessarily mean that no other wars ever took place before then or will ever take place in the future? Of course not. It only means that the professor is honing in on one particular era and not on others for the time being. Same thing with the apostles speaking of what was then called "this evil generation" as opposed to the age which was about to come for them after that.

Scripture does not contradict itself. There are only 2 ages recognized.

Agreed that scripture does not contradict itself. But the verses that I gave above definitely show more past ages and more future ages than you will acknowledge. There was definitely the "ends of the ages" that was upon the saints of the first century to whom those words were written in 1 Corinthians 10:11. That was PAST MULTIPLE AGES, without even addressing the eternal state.

Will check back in later, since we have a funeral to attend today.

 

[sovereigngrace]

SG, this is not "counter evidence" you gave. Simply because the NT scriptures address the subject of that present age and an age after the resurrection does not refute the existence of more ages than those two. I did not address your discussion of the eternal state as distinguished from this present world because it is not really something which I disagree with.

A brief example. If a professor concentrated his class's attention on World War I and World War II for the theme of study during one semester, does that necessarily mean that no other wars ever took place before then or will ever take place in the future? Of course not. It only means that the professor is honing in on one particular era and not on others for the time being. Same thing with the apostles speaking of what was then called "this evil generation" as opposed to the age which was about to come for them after that.

Agreed that scripture does not contradict itself. But the verses that I gave above definitely show more past ages and more future ages than you will acknowledge. There was definitely the "ends of the ages" that was upon the saints of the first century to whom those words were written in 1 Corinthians 10:11. That was PAST MULTIPLE AGES, without even addressing the eternal state.

Will check back in later, since we have a funeral to attend today.

But we are still in an evil age! Our day is marked by evil, corruption and and mortality. The age to come is marked by righteousness, incorruption and perfection. Constantly throughout the Word of God we see that “this present evil age” is equated with suffering and pain. The age to come is depicted as an eternal rest and safety. Romans 8:16-18 explains (I will quote the NKJV), “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time [Gr. Kairos] are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall [Gr. mello or hereafter] be revealed in us.”

There is a constant tension throughout the New Testament in regard to the imperfection of this age and the perfection of the age to come, the temporal nature of our current age and the eternal character of the age to come. Paul is dealing a lot with the imperfection and suffering of this age and this world and is particularly highlighting the fact that this creation is not what God designed it to be. The theme is both consistent and well-defined.

The phrase “this present time” found in this reading closely corresponds with the synonymous expression “this world/age” found throughout the New Testament to describe the here-and-now. It is a saying that is normally used when contrasting the deficiency of this current life to the bliss and glory of the approaching eternal state – “the world / age to come.” In fact, Scripture only knows of two ages – “this age” and the “age to come,” Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between “this present time” or age and the eternal “age to come,” as Premils argue.

In this reading, Paul is simply comparing the testing and trials that God’s people currently endure in this current life, which is plagued with all the consequences of the fall, and the joy of the eternal state when Christ comes that is totally purged of the curse. The portrayal of this age correlates with Galatians 1:4 that labels “this present time” of “sufferings” as “this present evil age.” Paul speaks of a time when “the children of God” will be “glorified together” at His return. He assures his audience that the difficulties of this life are nothing “to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” when Christ appears. His whole focus is the glory that will be finally and eternally realized at Christ’s return.

Paul is looking forward to the day when both man and creation will be perfected and will be in total harmony and sync again. He is stressing the fact that the glory that awaits us is assured. Our bodies will indeed be raised. We will be glorified. We will be made into the image of the Lord Jesus Christ. God is successfully working towards that end. Nothing will thwart that purpose. Nothing can thwart what God is going to do for us and in us. We therefore have a great hope of perfect renewal, and being finally and eternally made into the image of Christ.

Romans 8:19-23 continues (I will quote it from the NKJV as it is more accurate): “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God (that is the glorification of fallen creation). For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption [Gr. phthora or decay] into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body (that is the glorification of God elect).”

We live in a world that is burdened and broken. It is fallen because it has been ruined by sin. The Greek word interpreted “vanity” in the KJV is the Greek word mataiotes meaning: 1) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness; 2) perverseness, depravity; 3) frailty, want of vigor. This embodies all consequences of sin on the earth. As a repercussion, it has been judged by God.

Notwithstanding, God in His providence and infinite wisdom has ordained a day when He will finally bring time, evil and the bondage of corruption to an end. This passage speaks of an approaching climactic event in history that will eventually and eternally release all creation from a position of current anguish and despair to a place of total liberation and relief. In fact, there can be no doubt; the central focus of this whole passage is the yearning of “the whole creation” for the day when “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” There is indeed a termination to the “bondage of corruption” – it is the one and only future all-consummating Coming of Christ.

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

R.C. Sproul expounds: “In this present darkness, the curse extends to the end of the earth— to our lives, to our labors, to our businesses, to our relationships. All suffer under the pangs of the curse of a fallen world. That’s why there’s a cosmic yearning, where all of creation groans together waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for that moment when the curse is removed.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [Gr. phthora or decay] inherit incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or unending existence]. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

This passage closely mirrors Romans 8, confirming that the last enemy is demolished at “the last trump.” Corruption finds it end when Christ comes in all His glory. This corroborates what Paul was teaching about “the bondage of corruption” being terminated when the elect are redeemed at Christ’s appearing. No one can deny the correlation between the glorification of the elect and the glorification of the earth. God’s people cannot populate an incorrupt earth. They need their bodies suitably attired in perfection to be able to enjoy that eternal state.

Paul teaches that the dead in Christ will be raised and changed to be immortal when Christ returns at the last trumpet. Interestingly, this Greek word allasso used to describe the glorification of the earth in Hebrews 1:10-12 is also used to describe the glorification of the elect here.

Mortals are not qualified to inherit the new earth, as they are plagued by the blight of corruption – which is expressly forbidden from the new earth. Sinful mortals [Gr. in their corruptible bodies) will not even survive the Lord’s climactic coming never mind enter the glorified earth. They cannot abide the glorious presence of Christ at His appearing. It would be totally impossible for flesh and blood to inhabit such a glorious setting. Anyway, there will be no more curse on the world, as death will be swallowed up in victory. The bondage of corruption will finally be banished.

We must note the careful connection between “flesh and blood” and “corruption” (which relates to “this present time”) in comparison to “the kingdom of God” (that appears in all its final glory when “the trumpet shall sound”) and “incorruption.” To secure man’s access to this glorified eternal kingdom, which is inherited alone by the meek (Psalm 37:9-11, 22, Matthew 5:5), “this corruptible must put on incorruption.” This passage, which is speaking of the period immediately following the coming of Christ, confirms that no element of the fall can access the incorruptible eternal kingdom.

This changeover from “this present evil age” blighted with “the bondage of corruption” to the bliss and splendor of “incorruption” and “the glory which shall be revealed in us” doesn’t happen until the return of Christ. The transition from this temporal evil age to the new perfect eternal age happens at Christ’s return. Scripture shows this glorious climatic event will see the glorification of God’s people and the glorification of this earth. The means by which God removes corruption from this earth at the end is by fire. People need to be glorified in order to equip them to populate the new perfected environment.

This reading makes plain, “flesh and blood” or mortal believers cannot inherit a glorified earth that has been purified by fire of every last vestige of the curse.

For those who try and dilute or delay the complete and instant change that occurs to this earth when Christ comes, they miss the purpose of Christ’s return. His coming to perfect that which is His. The elect creature and the fallen earth are going to be instantly glorified. It is highly significant that the same word used to describe the complete change in the constitution and form of the current earth from old to new is the exact same word as is used to describe the change of the believer from corruption to incorruption at the second coming.

The deliverance of this earth occurs when we are ultimately delivered (caught up – and perfected). It is connected to our glorification. It is shown in Holy Writ as an event, not a process. The fiery destruction envelops this current earth and removes the corruption completely. We then return to a regenerated earth where there is no death or decay.

If it is even possible for you to take your Premils glasses off please do so. Do the math. See the context.

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Creation will be finally purged of wickedness, all the wicked, rebellion and all degeneration forever when Jesus comes. If the remedy for the corruption of the old heavens and earth is the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth then we are looking at an all-consummating reference to the destruction of the current globe and the existing heavens. The old arrangement that is marked by sin and insurrection is indeed regenerated by fire and the curse is removed. The old arrangement that is marked by sin, death and decay is indeed regenerated by fire (as Peter said) and changed to a new glorified perfect arrangement “wherein dwelleth righteousness.” This allows no room for the continuation of unrighteousness or corruption, as you insist. Such is totally eliminated through the conflagration.

The new heavens and new earth are such a stark contrast to this current present evil age that is blighted by all the result of the fall, including the existence of Satan. The new arrangement is especially noted for “righteousness.”

Scripture tells us that we are coming back to earth, but it will be a regenerated earth (Malachi 4:1-3, I Corinthians 15:50, 2 Peter 3). It will be an earth totally purged of all deterioration. The new heavens and a new earth (in whatever form God chooses) will appear at the coming of Christ. It will involve (at very least) the burning up of the crust of our current earth. This current earth will be totally changed/regenerated – making it a new curse-free environment. The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition. These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain forever – only in a new condition.

 

[Timtofly]

But we are still in an evil age! Our day is marked by evil, corruption and and mortality. The age to come is marked by righteousness, incorruption and perfection. Constantly throughout the Word of God we see that “this present evil age” is equated with suffering and pain. The age to come is depicted as an eternal rest and safety. Romans 8:16-18 explains (I will quote the NKJV), “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time [Gr. Kairos] are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall [Gr. mello or hereafter] be revealed in us.”

There is a constant tension throughout the New Testament in regard to the imperfection of this age and the perfection of the age to come, the temporal nature of our current age and the eternal character of the age to come. Paul is dealing a lot with the imperfection and suffering of this age and this world and is particularly highlighting the fact that this creation is not what God designed it to be. The theme is both consistent and well-defined.

The phrase “this present time” found in this reading closely corresponds with the synonymous expression “this world/age” found throughout the New Testament to describe the here-and-now. It is a saying that is normally used when contrasting the deficiency of this current life to the bliss and glory of the approaching eternal state – “the world / age to come.” In fact, Scripture only knows of two ages – “this age” and the “age to come,” Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between “this present time” or age and the eternal “age to come,” as Premils argue.

In this reading, Paul is simply comparing the testing and trials that God’s people currently endure in this current life, which is plagued with all the consequences of the fall, and the joy of the eternal state when Christ comes that is totally purged of the curse. The portrayal of this age correlates with Galatians 1:4 that labels “this present time” of “sufferings” as “this present evil age.” Paul speaks of a time when “the children of God” will be “glorified together” at His return. He assures his audience that the difficulties of this life are nothing “to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” when Christ appears. His whole focus is the glory that will be finally and eternally realized at Christ’s return.

Paul is looking forward to the day when both man and creation will be perfected and will be in total harmony and sync again. He is stressing the fact that the glory that awaits us is assured. Our bodies will indeed be raised. We will be glorified. We will be made into the image of the Lord Jesus Christ. God is successfully working towards that end. Nothing will thwart that purpose. Nothing can thwart what God is going to do for us and in us. We therefore have a great hope of perfect renewal, and being finally and eternally made into the image of Christ.

Romans 8:19-23 continues (I will quote it from the NKJV as it is more accurate): “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God (that is the glorification of fallen creation). For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption [Gr. phthora or decay] into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body (that is the glorification of God elect).”

We live in a world that is burdened and broken. It is fallen because it has been ruined by sin. The Greek word interpreted “vanity” in the KJV is the Greek word mataiotes meaning: 1) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness; 2) perverseness, depravity; 3) frailty, want of vigor. This embodies all consequences of sin on the earth. As a repercussion, it has been judged by God.

Notwithstanding, God in His providence and infinite wisdom has ordained a day when He will finally bring time, evil and the bondage of corruption to an end. This passage speaks of an approaching climactic event in history that will eventually and eternally release all creation from a position of current anguish and despair to a place of total liberation and relief. In fact, there can be no doubt; the central focus of this whole passage is the yearning of “the whole creation” for the day when “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” There is indeed a termination to the “bondage of corruption” – it is the one and only future all-consummating Coming of Christ.

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

R.C. Sproul expounds: “In this present darkness, the curse extends to the end of the earth— to our lives, to our labors, to our businesses, to our relationships. All suffer under the pangs of the curse of a fallen world. That’s why there’s a cosmic yearning, where all of creation groans together waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for that moment when the curse is removed.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [Gr. phthora or decay] inherit incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or unending existence]. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

This passage closely mirrors Romans 8, confirming that the last enemy is demolished at “the last trump.” Corruption finds it end when Christ comes in all His glory. This corroborates what Paul was teaching about “the bondage of corruption” being terminated when the elect are redeemed at Christ’s appearing. No one can deny the correlation between the glorification of the elect and the glorification of the earth. God’s people cannot populate an incorrupt earth. They need their bodies suitably attired in perfection to be able to enjoy that eternal state.

Paul teaches that the dead in Christ will be raised and changed to be immortal when Christ returns at the last trumpet. Interestingly, this Greek word allasso used to describe the glorification of the earth in Hebrews 1:10-12 is also used to describe the glorification of the elect here.

Mortals are not qualified to inherit the new earth, as they are plagued by the blight of corruption – which is expressly forbidden from the new earth. Sinful mortals [Gr. in their corruptible bodies) will not even survive the Lord’s climactic coming never mind enter the glorified earth. They cannot abide the glorious presence of Christ at His appearing. It would be totally impossible for flesh and blood to inhabit such a glorious setting. Anyway, there will be no more curse on the world, as death will be swallowed up in victory. The bondage of corruption will finally be banished.

We must note the careful connection between “flesh and blood” and “corruption” (which relates to “this present time”) in comparison to “the kingdom of God” (that appears in all its final glory when “the trumpet shall sound”) and “incorruption.” To secure man’s access to this glorified eternal kingdom, which is inherited alone by the meek (Psalm 37:9-11, 22, Matthew 5:5), “this corruptible must put on incorruption.” This passage, which is speaking of the period immediately following the coming of Christ, confirms that no element of the fall can access the incorruptible eternal kingdom.

This changeover from “this present evil age” blighted with “the bondage of corruption” to the bliss and splendor of “incorruption” and “the glory which shall be revealed in us” doesn’t happen until the return of Christ. The transition from this temporal evil age to the new perfect eternal age happens at Christ’s return. Scripture shows this glorious climatic event will see the glorification of God’s people and the glorification of this earth. The means by which God removes corruption from this earth at the end is by fire. People need to be glorified in order to equip them to populate the new perfected environment.

This reading makes plain, “flesh and blood” or mortal believers cannot inherit a glorified earth that has been purified by fire of every last vestige of the curse.

For those who try and dilute or delay the complete and instant change that occurs to this earth when Christ comes, they miss the purpose of Christ’s return. His coming to perfect that which is His. The elect creature and the fallen earth are going to be instantly glorified. It is highly significant that the same word used to describe the complete change in the constitution and form of the current earth from old to new is the exact same word as is used to describe the change of the believer from corruption to incorruption at the second coming.

The deliverance of this earth occurs when we are ultimately delivered (caught up – and perfected). It is connected to our glorification. It is shown in Holy Writ as an event, not a process. The fiery destruction envelops this current earth and removes the corruption completely. We then return to a regenerated earth where there is no death or decay.

If it is even possible for you to take your Premils glasses off please do so. Do the math. See the context.

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Creation will be finally purged of wickedness, all the wicked, rebellion and all degeneration forever when Jesus comes. If the remedy for the corruption of the old heavens and earth is the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth then we are looking at an all-consummating reference to the destruction of the current globe and the existing heavens. The old arrangement that is marked by sin and insurrection is indeed regenerated by fire and the curse is removed. The old arrangement that is marked by sin, death and decay is indeed regenerated by fire (as Peter said) and changed to a new glorified perfect arrangement “wherein dwelleth righteousness.” This allows no room for the continuation of unrighteousness or corruption, as you insist. Such is totally eliminated through the conflagration.

The new heavens and new earth are such a stark contrast to this current present evil age that is blighted by all the result of the fall, including the existence of Satan. The new arrangement is especially noted for “righteousness.”

Scripture tells us that we are coming back to earth, but it will be a regenerated earth (Malachi 4:1-3, I Corinthians 15:50, 2 Peter 3). It will be an earth totally purged of all deterioration. The new heavens and a new earth (in whatever form God chooses) will appear at the coming of Christ. It will involve (at very least) the burning up of the crust of our current earth. This current earth will be totally changed/regenerated – making it a new curse-free environment. The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition. These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain forever – only in a new condition.

You are missing the whole point you are trying to argue.

After the Resurrection!

The Resurrection moment was the death, burial, and Resurrection of Christ. That age began in 30AD in Paradise. The Resurrection of the eternal age already started. Ironic it is running parallel with the on going age of sin and corruption. As that is what Amil constantly argue, but do not accept. They claim the 1,000 year reign as being now, but fail to see that age literally started in Paradise, not on earth.

Revelation 20 is also after a physical resurrection, and thus a new age on earth. Yet Amil miss the actual Resurrection from Abraham's bosom into Paradise which was also a physical resurrection out of the grave. That was the age to come, except not on earth, but in Paradise.