Josephus embellished many of his stories to keep Vespasian, then Titus, entertained.
Please read Rev. 13 closely. Sacrifices will be made to the statue of the beast.
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Josephus embellished many of his stories to keep Vespasian, then Titus, entertained.Josephus wrote that the Romans sacrificed to idols in the temple complex in “wars of the Jews 6.6.1”.
But if you don’t accept Josephus as evidence, What proof do you have they were looking for Gold?
Please read Rev. 13 closely. Sacrifices will be made to the statue of the beast.those scriptures don’t mention anything of an AOD, nor sacrifices given to an idol in the temple complex…..so….no idea what your talking about…..
So, the AOD, etc. have already occurred? Then, WHERE'S JESUS???????????????? He said He'd return immediately after the trib.Can't be, that would ruin your made-up doctrine.
Nah, I'll just claim that none of that counted and your doctrine will still be rubbish. <Laugh>
I'm sure I'd be impressed. I knew some old boys a few years ago who derclared themselves to be the legal government of the Repubic of Texas. Spoiler Alert: They weren't. Are there some Jews (or more likely "Messianic Jews" who are about as Jewish as I am) who want a "temple" rebuilt? No doubt. They're right up there with the folks who are waiting for the Planet Nibiru to show up.
Nero
Dunno, don't read Latin anyway.
Don't know. Don't care. I don't insist that all prophecies ever made havwe been fulfilled. That's as ludicrous as claiming, as you lot do, that any ptophecy that has been fulfilled "didn't count". I try to avoid that kind of goofiness.
I don't think there'll be one. Here's where I use y'all's favorite closing "You'll see soon enough!" <Laugh>
Luke 21 was about 66AD, not any AoD in the first century. It talked about armies surrounding Jerusalem showing that soon Jerusalem would be desolate.I guess I’m confused by this. It seems like the only difference between Antiochus’ AOD and the Roman armies AOD is location. Antiochus put an idol on the alter and made a sacrifice there. The Roman armies places their standards (which were idols) and sacrificed near the eastern gate of the temple. However, both occurred in the temple complex.
can it only occur on the alter to be considered an AOD?
Luke 21 was about 66AD, not any AoD in the first century. It talked about armies surrounding Jerusalem showing that soon Jerusalem would be desolate.
That is not polar opposite meanings.Parallel passages can not be interpreted to have polar opposite meanings.
When we compare the parallel accounts in Matthew and Luke, we see they are speaking of the exact same event:
-COMPARE THIS-
Matthew 24:15-21
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
-TO THIS-
Luke 21:20-23
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Both above passages speak of the same "When" the same "Desolation" the same "time to flee", the same "those days of woe to the pregnant and nursing" and the same "Great Tribulation/Distress.
These two, separate-but-parallel, synoptic accounts are of the exact same discourse Given by Jesus, to the exact same apostles, at the exact same moment, covering the exact same subject.
Again, Parallel passages CANNOT be interpreted in a way thet renders their individual meanings be anything BUT entirely PARALLEL to one another.
Why aren't you using the same argument in Luke 21?
That chapter says zero about an AOD as well, yet you insist it involves an AOD, regardless.
That is not polar opposite meanings.
If I told you to flee a camp site if you saw a bear.
Then I said flee a camp site if you saw fire.
Then you complain a bear mauled your body, because you did not flee, because you saw no fire.
In 66AD they fled and never came back because of seeing armies. There was no AoD to flee from in the first century.
That still doesn’t square with the fact that Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are parallel.
They're not parallel. When Vespasian first besieged Jerusalem, he got news of Nero's death & Galba's assuming the Caesarship. Vespasian's army urged him to lead them back to Rome to overthrow Galba & become Caesar himself. So, he headed back to Rome with the army, thus lifting the siege. Some 8 months later, when the dust had settled, Titus came back with an army to besiege J again. Thus, there was plenty of time for people to flee J.Parallel passages can not be interpreted to have polar opposite meanings.
When we compare the parallel accounts in Matthew and Luke, we see they are speaking of the exact same event:
-COMPARE THIS-
Matthew 24:15-21
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
-TO THIS-
Luke 21:20-23
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Both above passages speak of the same "When" the same "Desolation" the same "time to flee", the same "those days of woe to the pregnant and nursing" and the same "Great Tribulation/Distress.
These two, separate-but-parallel, synoptic accounts are of the exact same discourse Given by Jesus, to the exact same apostles, at the exact same moment, covering the exact same subject.
Again, Parallel passages CANNOT be interpreted in a way thet renders their individual meanings be anything BUT entirely PARALLEL to one another.
They're not parallel. When Vespasian first besieged Jerusalem, he got news of Nero's death & Galba's assuming the Caesarship. Vespasian's army urged him to lead them back to Rome to overthrow Galba & become Caesar himself. So, he headed back to Rome with the army, thus lifting the siege. Some 8 months later, when the dust had settled, Titus came back with an army to besiege J again. Thus, there was plenty of time for people to flee J.
Jesus said in Matt. 24, flee IMMEDIATELY when the army surrounded J, but He didn't say that in Luke. So, the Matthew account refers to a future event.And this proves they're not parallel...how?
Jesus said in Matt. 24, flee IMMEDIATELY when the army surrounded J, but He didn't say that in Luke. So, the Matthew account refers to a future event.
Josephus embellished many of his stories to keep Vespasian, then Titus, entertained.
Jesus said in Matt. 24, flee IMMEDIATELY when the army surrounded J, but He didn't say that in Luke. So, the Matthew account refers to a future event.
Jesus said to flee in both accounts:
Matthew 24:15-16 15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’adescribed by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:20-21 20But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not(Matthew 24:23-26).
Seriously, what does any of that have to do with what happened to the unbelieving Jews at the hands of the Romans in 70 AD, and or leading up to 70 AD?
Do some of you think unbelieving Jews in the first century were concerned with false Christs, the fact they didn't even believe the real Christ was the real Christ? So, they instead starting seeking false Christs, thus believing them instead?
If these are involving the same events, how would one know when to flee? In one account He says to flee when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation. In the other account He says to flee when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.
Jesus said in Matt. 24, flee IMMEDIATELY when the army surrounded J
Do you understand that Matthew and Luke were writing to different audiences? Matthew was writing to Jews and Luke was writing to Gentiles. That is what accounts for the differences in Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20. Matthew's audience was familiar with the prophecies in Daniel which is why it says "let the reader understand". Luke's audience of Gentiles would have known nothing about Daniel's prophecies, so it would make no sense for Luke to tell them to consider the prophecy in Daniel about the abomination of desolation and then to say "let the reader understand".I realize it mentions an army surrounding J in Luke 21, but where does it ever mention an army surrounding J in Matthew 24?
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