Predestination and Salvation

[iwbswiaihl2]

In the first place, do you even know what it means to be "predestinated"?

Nowhere in scripture will you find a reference to people being "predestinated" to hell.

In fact, if you would take the time to read what scriptures say about "predestination", you would see exactly what people are "predestinated" to.

Scripture says we are "predestinated" to:

1. Adoption (Eph. 1:5)
2. Obtained an inheritance through predestination (Eph. 1:11)
3. To be conformed to the image of his Son (Rom. 8:29)

And that is all it says.

And again, I suggest you read, and/or study to see what the doctrine of election actually says.

And I suggest you read what scripture says about "predestination".

God Bless

Till all are one.

You seem not to see the reality of irresistible grace. So, answer this question only, is it true that only the elect who were predestined before the foundation are the recipients of irresistible grace according to a Calvinist?

 

[sdowney717]

You seem not to see the reality of irresistible grace. So, answer this question only, is it true that only the elect who were predestined before the foundation are the recipients of irresistible grace according to a Calvinist?

An irresistible grace is one that leads you to a confirmed belief in Jesus Christ. If you die in unbelief, then God was not teaching you to believe in Christ, irresistibly. God does command all men to repent and believe, but not all men are taught by the Holy Spirit so that they actually do believe and become sealed in the Holy Spirit.

John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Rejected by His Own
41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

All of the THEY that are taught are those the Father has given to Christ beforehand, before they place their trust in Christ, the Father God has foreknown them as His people.

 

[FreeGrace2]

An irresistible grace is one that leads you to a confirmed belief in Jesus Christ. If you die in unbelief, then God was not teaching you to believe in Christ, irresistibly.

Isn't Calvinism's doctrine that one was chose to be a believer, by the 2nd point of TULIP?

God does command all men to repent and believe, but not all men are taught by the Holy Spirit so that they actually do believe and become sealed in the Holy Spirit.

This sounds as though the Holy Spirit isn't so much "on the ball" IF God commands everyone to believe, but the Holy Spirit fails to teach everyone to believe.

How does that work, actually?

John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Note that in v.28, the crowd asked what they MUST DO in order to "work the works of God", or DO the works of God (for eternal life).

Their question reveals their training that one receives eternal life on the basis of works.
v.29 reveals what God requires for eternal life: "that you believe in Him".

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Thanks for including v.45. That doesn't happen very often.

v.45 explains WHO actually comes to Jesus: those who have heard and learned from the Father. Yet, v.45a indicates that "they all" shall be taught by God.

What's clear is that why God has taught everyone, only those who paid attention will come to Jesus. They listened and learned from the Father.

All of the THEY that are taught are those the Father has given to Christ beforehand, before they place their trust in Christ, the Father God has foreknown them as His people.

Nope. It's the ones who paid attention to the teaching.