Predestination and Salvation

[Kywy]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

 

[Kywy]

Some verse in Proverbs says the lot is cast, but every decision is from God. Also i know if someone truly repents, then they havent committed the unforgivable sin, but how do i know i truly repent?

 

[Adstar]

The fact that God foreknows people befre they are even born is revealed by the Prophet Jeremiah..

Jeremiah 1: KJV
1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: {2} To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. {3} It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month. {4} Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, {5} Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

 

[Adstar]

Some verse in Proverbs says the lot is cast, but every decision is from God. Also i know if someone truly repents, then they havent committed the unforgivable sin, but how do i know i truly repent?

Proverbs 16: KJV
33 "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD."

Yes people used to cast lots in the OT in a number of circumstances seeking the will of God on an issue.. This does not mean that the verse is stating that God forces one to accept His will and another to reject His will..

Do you believe Gods revealed will? Do you believe Jesus and trust that His Atonement saves sinners?

 

[paul1149]

Some verse in Proverbs says the lot is cast, but every decision is from God. Also i know if someone truly repents, then they havent committed the unforgivable sin, but how do i know i truly repent?

The casting of lots seems to have been the last resort, after all attempts at intelligent choice had been made. For instance, in Acts 1, the lot was used to select Matthias as the replacement for Judas. But first Peter said, "We must choose...", and then they went through a human process of nomination of two candidates. Only then did they formally turn the matter over to the Lord for His judgment, and then resort to the lot. The lot is essentially a random act, and here it is solemnly infused with trust that the Lord will bless and use it. That trust should not be employed casually or presumptuously. The lot does not absolve us of accountability for our choices, and is not the normal way we should conduct our affairs.

As for repentance, no one knows the full depths of his own heart (cf. Jeremiah 17:9). James 4 tells sinners to draw near to God, and then He will draw near to them. If you want to repent, go to God and tell Him so. Do it with all the sincerity in your heart, be specific, and then say that you are willing to confess more if He should direct you to. This way you've gone as far as you can, and it is now in His hands. He will take it from there. Remember the promise of 1Jn 1.9: if we confess, He will forgive, and He will cleanse. It's a process, so you have to be patient and persevere. But you can be sure God will respond to sincere repentance and will be working in you to bring it to fruition. Look to Him all the way through it, not to your ability to perform religiously.

 

[DeaconDean]

So, in a nut-shell, what did John Calvin believe concerning "predestination"?

"Predestination According to Calvin
According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).

Calvin described the basis of predestination in several ways. In general he affirmed that there is no basis for election outside of God. Referring to Eph. 1.9, Calvin noted that God purposed election “in Himself,” basing his decree of predestination on “nothing outside Himself (192).” Calvin attributed the salvation of the elect to God’s free decision to favor them (188). He variously described this as God’s “mere generosity (180, 187),” his “freely given mercy (189, 195, 211),” and the “good pleasure of His will (191; cf. Eph. 1.5).” Moreover, Calvin based the damnation of the reprobate solely in God’s decision (189, 200).

Since God’s reasons for predestination are wholly internal to his being (190), they are opaque to humanity. Ultimately, then, the basis of God’s predestination is mysterious and “utterly incomprehensible” to people (209). This mystery points to one of God’s purposes in predestination, to inspire wonder and reverence in believers (181). The things hidden in God are not to be understood by people, but rather revered in their “wonderful depth (179).” Indeed, for John Calvin the overarching purpose of predestination is for God to be glorified, both in the praise of the elect for his grace (192), and in the terrible yet glorious judgment of the reprobate (199).

Despite the mysterious basis of predestination, it is possible for the elect to be certain of their status as children of God (187). The first and seemingly most important indicator of election is what Calvin referred to as “the calling of God (3.24.4, 189).” His use of this term seems to refer to a subjective inward certainty that God has chosen a person for salvation. Elsewhere, Calvin suggested that having “knowledge of [God’s] name” and reflecting the process of sanctification are both indicators of election (189). Moreover, Calvin claimed that “communion with Christ” is sufficient proof of election (3.24.5): since we are elected in Jesus Christ (Eph. 1.4), we cannot seek the certainty of election “apart from the Son (3.24.5).” Calvin also seemed to obscurely suggest that the daily blessings received from the hand of God might rightly be perceived as an indication of election, “that secret adoption (3.24.4).” Together, these signs—the foremost being “the calling of God,”—yield certainty of salvation and tranquil peace with God (3.24.4).

John Calvin also defined his doctrine of predestination in opposition to differing views held by his contemporaries. First, Calvin took up the view that God predestines people according to his foreknowledge of their works. While Calvin affirmed the foreknowledge of God (184), he denied that God “adopts as sons those whom He foreknows will not be unworthy of His grace,” and damns those he knows will be inclined to “evil intention and ungodliness (190).” From Ephesians 1.4 he argued that one purpose of God’s election was to make his children holy. Since holiness is to be produced by election, it made no sense to Calvin to assert the reverse (191-2). Moreover, the whole point of teaching that election took place before creation (Eph. 1.4) is to demonstrate that election had nothing to do with meritorious works (191). Indeed, for Calvin another important purpose of predestination was to communicate that salvation is not based on individual merit but solely on God’s grace (191).

Second, Calvin took up the view that God elects some but condemns none (200). Calvin saw this view as “highly absurd” since it seemed to imply that the salvation received by the elect could also be attained by the non-elect as a result of “chance” or “their own effort (200).” Rejecting this inconsistent implication, Calvin asserted that the reprobate are those God intentionally neglects to choose (200). From Rom. 9.14ff, Calvin argued that the hardening of non-elect hearts is as much attributable to God as is mercy. Moreover, he noted that Paul did not shy away from this dreadful conclusion, but rather questioned the right of the clay to protest the Potter’s work (Rom. 9.20), and linked condemnation of the reprobate to God’s glory (Rom. 9.22-23). For John Calvin, election could not but stand “over against reprobation (200).”

Source

I would ask, that before people come in here and make claims that are completely and blatantly false, do your research!

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Geralt]

predestination has nothing to do about feelings.
election is not about how you feel, but abiding in christ.

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

Think about what you have said for a moment. You say you want to be saved but feel nothing. If you want to be saved then the Holy Spirit must be dealing with you, for Jesus said He would convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment in John 16:8, so just obey Rom 10:8-10 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. If you really believe this by faith you must stand of that faith and not on feelings. 2Cor5:7 we walk by faith and not by sight. Heb 11:6 without faith it is impossible to please Him for they that come to Him must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. Do you believe that the scriptures are the word of God inspired by Him? Then never let doubt have a footing in your mind or heart. He cannot lie. Rom 10:13 whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Is this true or not? Read your scriptures, get in a bible believing church and never, ever let something or someone tell you that God can lie. Of course there is the growing stage but unless you walk by faith and have your mind transformed by the Holy Spirit through the word you will be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Walk by faith and not by sight nor anything else.

As for the unpardonable sin, look at it in Matt 12:31-32 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. That word blasphemy means to speak against, blasphemy (“defiant irreverence”) read the whole passage there and you will see that even though they saw Jesus perform a miracle in v22 healing this man who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. But these people said He did it by the power of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons. You have not committed this sin of speaking against the Holy Spirit. I will cut it here not to get to long winded. Walk by faith>

 

[AMR]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

How do you know you are not one of those God has set his preference upon (Deuteronomy. 29:29)?

Rather than trying to peer into the secret things of God, why not do your duty per what He has plainly revealed:

The Good News: Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:13
For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

God does not choose every decision in the sense that you seem to be implying. We are not automatons, robots, etc.

On the contrary, Scripture teaches us that we will always choose according to our greatest inclinations at the moment we so choose. That is Scripture's definition of free will, the liberty of spontaneity.

The fact that we can choose accordingly is because God has decreed that it be so. In other words, God has established our free will as described above and does no violence to that which He has established. God is not doing the choosing for you. You choose. You are accountable for your choices.

The fact that God knows beforehand (foreknowledge) what you will choose does not make Him the doer of your choices. God knows because He has ordained (decreed). If God did not ordain, then He would not know, for what He ordains cannot not take place. Yet, God's ordaining includes the fact that what you choose to do will be based upon your greatest inclinations in that exact moment you so choose.

This is part of what WCF 3.1 is getting at, that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass but without abolishing contingency in the things ordained:

God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11,Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33)​

From your misunderstandings, we see incorrect statements such as the following:

Necessity of a hypothetical inference...
If God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter cannot refrain from sinning. (Incorrect)

The interpretation above wrongly interprets God's foreknowledge as impinging upon Peter's moral free agency. The proper understanding is:

The necessity of the consequent of the hypothetical...
Necessarily, if God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter does not refrain from sinning. (Correct)

In other words, the actions of moral free agents do not take place because they are foreseen, the actions are foreseen because the actions are certain to take place.

 

[TaylorSexton]

How do you know you are not one of those God has set his preference upon (Deuteronomy. 29:29)?

Rather than trying to peer into the secret things of God, why not do your duty per what He has plainly revealed:

The Good News: Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:13
For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

God does not choose every decision in the sense that you seem to be implying. We are not automatons, robots, etc.

On the contrary, Scripture teaches us that we will always choose according to our greatest inclinations at the moment we so choose. That is Scripture's definition of free will, the liberty of spontaneity.

The fact that we can choose accordingly is because God has decreed that it be so. In other words, God has established our free will as described above and does no violence to that which He has established. God is not doing the choosing for you. You choose. You are accountable for your choices.

The fact that God knows beforehand (foreknowledge) what you will choose does not make Him the doer of your choices. God knows because He has ordained (decreed). If God did not ordain, then He would not know, for what He ordains cannot not take place. Yet, God's ordaining includes the fact that what you choose to do will be based upon your greatest inclinations in that exact moment you so choose.

This is part of what WCF 3.1 is getting at, that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass but without abolishing contingency in the things ordained:

God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11,Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33)​

From your misunderstandings, we see incorrect statements such as the following:

Necessity of a hypothetical inference...
If God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter cannot refrain from sinning. (Incorrect)

The interpretation above wrongly interprets God's foreknowledge as impinging upon Peter's moral free agency. The proper understanding is:

The necessity of the consequent of the hypothetical...
Necessarily, if God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter does not refrain from sinning. (Correct)

In other words, the actions of moral free agents do not take place because they are foreseen, the actions are foreseen because the actions are certain to take place.

Wow, I wish I could frame this on a wall somewhere in my apartment. Spoken like true scholastic! I thought I was reading Turretin for a second there.

Thank you for that!

 

[roman2819]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

Many Christians have been so awed by the word Predestination that we forgot about context. Predestination means pre-planned or chosen or destined. In context, it means that God has pre-planned to offer redemption to the Gentiles. Paul or Peter were NOT talking about predestination of individuals.

For 2000 years before the apostles' times, Yahweh was God to the Jews only, while other pagan nations worship many pluralistic gods. Even after Jesus' resurrection, the apostles thought that redemption was only for Jews only. Then Peter received a vision about eating unclean food, and they realized God wanted them to preach the gospel to the Gentiles too. Now, this was shocking to the Jews because it went against their tradition which was so rooted in the God of Abraham and Jacob, where Gentiles had no part in their God. When Gentiles started to believe, the Jews were displeased and demand that Gentiles followed Jewish customs (many Christian Jews were still practising circumcision and Sabbath at that time). Amid the hostility, even Peter distanced himself from the Gentiles, and Paul opposed Peter for that. To assure the Gentiles, Paul explained in Ephesians (and Letter of Romans) that God had always predestined (pre-planned) to offer redemption to the Gentiles. Let me explain the following verses while quoting them:

Ephesians 1:12, 13
[12]"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. ===> "we, who were the first to hope in Christ" refers to the Jews who had believed in God for 2000 years
[13] And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation ==> The Gentiles, who were previously excluded from Christ, are now included. Notice how Paul used different pronouns "we" [v 12] and "you" [v 13] as he refer to the Jews and Gentiles respectively.

When seen in context, the Bible was not talking about predestination of individuals. Instead, predestination means God has always planned (or pre-planned or predestined or destined) to offer redemption to the Gentiles. As such, we need not be thrown off track when we see words such as chosen, destined or predestined. When Paul or Peter said Gentiles are a chosen people, it means that God had chosen to offer them eternal life too; the apostles were not saying that each believer was/is chosen.

 

[AMR]

Always odd that in a forum dedicated to asking a Calvinist a question, we are treated to answers by obvious non-Calvinists. One would think that simple courtesy alone would prevent this sort of intrusion.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

So I will ask you a question about your Calvinism beliefs, since unconditional election of persons specifically and irresistible grace toward the elect as it taught in the tulip, why does God say that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that they repent? Why does He say look to Me and be saved all you end of the earth for I am God and there is no other? Is it then true, according to the tulip that actually the lost, non elect as the tulip teaches, the wicked are doom by being born never having the capability to repent because they were never called, never had the ability to repent, because they were the non elect as Calvinist describe it? Doesn't that seem contrary to what the scriptures say about Jesus coming to save the sinner from their sin and that to as many as receive Him, to them, gave He the power to become the children of God? Are these questions allowed to be asked, if not, just remove them, I will take no offense.

 

[DeaconDean]

So I will ask you a question about your Calvinism beliefs, since unconditional election of persons specifically and irresistible grace toward the elect as it taught in the tulip, why does God say that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that they repent?

Do all men repent? Sure, God don't want mankind to perish, but its a fact that they will and not all men will repent.

Why does He say look to Me and be saved all you end of the earth for I am God and there is no other?

In this day and age, as well as in Isaiah's time, men look to all sorts of things thinking they can find a way to heaven and God.

John Gill comments saying:

"And not to idols, nor to any creature, nor to the works of your hands; to your own righteousness and doings; to your wounds; to your tears and humiliations; to your own hearts and frames; to your graces and the exercise of them; all must be looked off of, and Christ only looked unto by a direct act of faith, for righteousness, for pardon, for all supplies of grace, and for glory and eternal happiness. He is to be looked unto as the Son of God, whose glory is the glory of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth; as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world; as the only Mediator between God and man; as the Saviour and Redeemer of lost sinners; and considered in all his offices and relations: under all circumstances he is to be looked to; when in the dark, look to him for light; when dead and lifeless, look to him for life; when weak, look to him for strength; when sick, look to him for healing; when hungry, look to him for food; and when disconsolate, look to him for comfort; for none ever look to him and are ashamed or disappointed, they have what they look for; and as it is profitable, so pleasant to look to Jesus, and he himself is well pleased with it; and therefore here encourages to it, adding,
and be ye saved;
or, "ye shall be saved" Christ is set up in the Gospel, and the ministration of it to be looked at, that men may be saved by him; and it is the will of God, not only that men should look to him, but that whosoever sees him, and believes in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life: the ministers of the Gospel are appointed to show men the way of salvation by Christ, and to assure them that he that believes in him shall be saved; and saints in all ages have looked unto him, and have been saved by him; and therefore this may be taken for a sure and certain thing, that such that look to Christ, as the Israelites did to the brasen serpent, the type of him, shall be saved, ( John 3:14 John 3:15 ) :
all the ends of the earth;
all that live at the furthest part of the earth; Christ has a people there, the Father has given him for his possession, and which are the purchase of his blood, and for whose sins he became the propitiation; and to these he sends his Gospel and his ministers, to find them out, and publish salvation to them, and to assure them, that however distant they are, both as to place and state, yet through looking to him by faith they shall be saved, even though they are the worst and vilest of sinners:
for I am God, and there is none else;
and so mighty to save, able to save to the uttermost, all that come to him, and to God by him, be they where they will; since he is truly God, there is virtue enough in his blood to pardon sin, and cleanse from it; and in his righteousness to justify from all sin; and in his sacrifice to expiate it; and therefore sensible sinners may safely look to him, and venture their souls on him."

Source

Is it then true, according to the tulip that actually the lost, non elect as the tulip teaches, the wicked are doom by being born never having the capability to repent because they were never called, never had the ability to repent, because they were the non elect as Calvinist describe it?

Not so. What ultimately dooms them is rejection of the Gospel.

Doesn't that seem contrary to what the scriptures say about Jesus coming to save the sinner from their sin and that to as many as receive Him, to them, gave He the power to become the children of God? Are these questions allowed to be asked, if not, just remove them, I will take no offense.

One of the first things you'll have to learn is to read scripture in context. Yes it does say: "he shall save his people from their sins." (cf. Mt. 1:21) Ask yourself this: Who are "his people"? 1) this was primarily addressed to the Jews; 2) "His people" also is meant for His "elect".

Let me tell you a story. There was a certain man who went to a city. There he was to preach. They went to church one day and listened to what was said. After that, they stood up and began to preach. One of them preached the history of Israel. Then tied it in with the Life and death of our Savior. It was a powerful message. Afterwards, they were sought out to preach again on the next Sabbath. As it turned out, the whole town, Jews and Gentiles turned out to hear them preach. An untold number repented and believed. Just who were these people? The elect. (cf. Acts 13)

This is a summary, but the point is valid. The Gospel is preached to all, but we know that only the elect will respond.

One minor note: most accuse Calvinists of twisting scripture with the doctrine of election and reprobation. Fact: one of the first persons to recognize this theory was a Roman Catholic Bishop around AD 490.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[AMR]

So I will ask you a question about your Calvinism beliefs, since unconditional election of persons specifically and irresistible grace toward the elect as it taught in the tulip, why does God say that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that they repent? Why does He say look to Me and be saved all you end of the earth for I am God and there is no other? Is it then true, according to the tulip that actually the lost, non elect as the tulip teaches, the wicked are doom by being born never having the capability to repent because they were never called, never had the ability to repent, because they were the non elect as Calvinist describe it? Doesn't that seem contrary to what the scriptures say about Jesus coming to save the sinner from their sin and that to as many as receive Him, to them, gave He the power to become the children of God? Are these questions allowed to be asked, if not, just remove them, I will take no offense.

That men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth of God is the preceptive will of God, the commands/precepts of God. What all should do.

The decree of God is the decretive will of God, what will happen, what cannot not happen.

You have overlooked the distinctions between what God preceptively wills, versus what God volitionally wills by ordaining (decretive will). I wish I could lose ten pounds, my preceptive will. My doctor says I should do so (his preceptive will). But I will never lose ten pounds unless I volitionally will it and take the steps necessary (including the means my doctor may provide) to make it not not happen. Hence the distinctions between God's commands (precepts) and God's decree (ordaining).

The majority of Calvinists understand the distinctions when speaking about the will of God. We all affirm there is but one will of God, that which springs forth from His volition, just as our own will. We all wish this or that, but that is not our volitional willing. For if it were, then it would be so...or we would change our willing. This also points out the difference between our will and God's, for our will is a never-ending sea of change, while God's will is never changing, always what He has revealed in His special revelation, Scripture, and always what He has not revealed (Deut. 29:29).

 

[FreeGrace2]

That men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth of God is the preceptive will of God, the commands/precepts of God. What all should do.

The decree of God is the decretive will of God, what will happen, what cannot not happen.

You have overlooked the distinctions between what God preceptively wills, versus what God volitionally wills by ordaining (decretive will). I wish I could lose ten pounds, my preceptive will. My doctor says I should do so (his preceptive will). But I will never lose ten pounds unless I volitionally will it and take the steps necessary (including the means my doctor may provide) to make it not not happen. Hence the distinctions between God's commands (precepts) and God's decree (ordaining).

The majority of Calvinists understand the distinctions when speaking about the will of God. We all affirm there is but one will of God, that which springs forth from His volition, just as our own will.

Where does the Bible teach about these 2 wills of God? iow, how does man know the distinction, from the Bible?

And how are there "distinction" in God's will if "there is but one will of God"?

 

[AMR]

The usual way "two wills" are distinguished without introducing contrariety into the one will of God is to acknowledge the simple point that the word "will" is used in two different ways.

In one sense He is said to will something volitionally. This is God's will properly speaking. "God works all things after the counsel of His own will." Eph. 1:11

There is also the extended use of the word "will" when a certain course of action is said to be the will of God. "This is the will of God concerning you, even your sanctification." In this latter sense the word "will" is being used morally, not volitionally. 1 Thess. 4:3

The two words may be used without contradiction or confusion if we keep in mind that the secret will refers to what shall be and the revealed will concerns what should be.

The moral will is not God’s will in a proper sense as He doesn’t will it to happen, but demands it of us.

Again, the word "will" strictly means something which is volitionally determined. Reformed theology understands that God's will always comes to pass and is never frustrated so far as the futurition of events is concerned.

On the other hand, there is also a use of the word "will" which does not accord with its strict meaning of volitional determination, as when an action is said to be God's will, that is, God requires that a certain action should be done by men. This does not necessarily come to pass because God may not have willed it to come to pass. Hence it is a less than literal or improper use of the word "will." Note, "improper" does not imply that the word should not be used; it only refers to the fact that a word is not being used in accord with its strict meaning.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, the word "will" strictly means something which is volitionally determined. Reformed theology understands that God's will always comes to pass and is never frustrated so far as the futurition of events is concerned.

On the other hand, there is also a use of the word "will" which does not accord with its strict meaning of volitional determination, as when an action is said to be God's will, that is, God requires that a certain action should be done by men. This does not necessarily come to pass because God may not have willed it to come to pass.

Did God will man to sin?

Which of God's "wills" is involved in man's individual actions of sin?

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Do all men repent? Sure, God don't want mankind to perish, but its a fact that they will and not all men will repent.

In this day and age, as well as in Isaiah's time, men look to all sorts of things thinking they can find a way to heaven and God.

John Gill comments saying:

"And not to idols, nor to any creature, nor to the works of your hands; to your own righteousness and doings; to your wounds; to your tears and humiliations; to your own hearts and frames; to your graces and the exercise of them; all must be looked off of, and Christ only looked unto by a direct act of faith, for righteousness, for pardon, for all supplies of grace, and for glory and eternal happiness. He is to be looked unto as the Son of God, whose glory is the glory of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth; as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world; as the only Mediator between God and man; as the Saviour and Redeemer of lost sinners; and considered in all his offices and relations: under all circumstances he is to be looked to; when in the dark, look to him for light; when dead and lifeless, look to him for life; when weak, look to him for strength; when sick, look to him for healing; when hungry, look to him for food; and when disconsolate, look to him for comfort; for none ever look to him and are ashamed or disappointed, they have what they look for; and as it is profitable, so pleasant to look to Jesus, and he himself is well pleased with it; and therefore here encourages to it, adding,
and be ye saved;
or, "ye shall be saved" Christ is set up in the Gospel, and the ministration of it to be looked at, that men may be saved by him; and it is the will of God, not only that men should look to him, but that whosoever sees him, and believes in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life: the ministers of the Gospel are appointed to show men the way of salvation by Christ, and to assure them that he that believes in him shall be saved; and saints in all ages have looked unto him, and have been saved by him; and therefore this may be taken for a sure and certain thing, that such that look to Christ, as the Israelites did to the brasen serpent, the type of him, shall be saved, ( John 3:14 John 3:15 ) :
all the ends of the earth;
all that live at the furthest part of the earth; Christ has a people there, the Father has given him for his possession, and which are the purchase of his blood, and for whose sins he became the propitiation; and to these he sends his Gospel and his ministers, to find them out, and publish salvation to them, and to assure them, that however distant they are, both as to place and state, yet through looking to him by faith they shall be saved, even though they are the worst and vilest of sinners:
for I am God, and there is none else;
and so mighty to save, able to save to the uttermost, all that come to him, and to God by him, be they where they will; since he is truly God, there is virtue enough in his blood to pardon sin, and cleanse from it; and in his righteousness to justify from all sin; and in his sacrifice to expiate it; and therefore sensible sinners may safely look to him, and venture their souls on him."

One of the first things you'll have to learn is to read scripture in context. Yes it does say: "he shall save his people from their sins." (cf. Mt. 1:21) Ask yourself this: Who are "his people"? 1) this was primarily addressed to the Jews; 2) "His people" also is meant for His "elect".

Let me tell you a story. There was a certain man who went to a city. There he was to preach. They went to church one day and listened to what was said. After that, they stood up and began to preach. One of them preached the history of Israel. Then tied it in with the Life and death of our Savior. It was a powerful message. Afterwards, they were sought out to preach again on the next Sabbath. As it turned out, the whole town, Jews and Gentiles turned out to hear them preach. An untold number repented and believed. Just who were these people? The elect. (cf. Acts 13)

This is a summary, but the point is valid. The Gospel is preached to all, but we know that only the elect will respond.

One minor note: most accuse Calvinists of twisting scripture with the doctrine of election and reprobation. Fact: one of the first persons to recognize this theory was a Roman Catholic Bishop around AD 490.

God Bless

Till all are one.

You say "Not so. What ultimately dooms them is rejection of the Gospel". So you don't believe in irresistible grace? Nor limited atonement as Calvinist view it?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

No and No. Next?