Pre-Tribulation Rapture Safe House

[petehears]

I have the same feelings about Obama as you do. But I will not go underground, but rather stand boldly in the face of adversity and persecution. I may be killed or jailed for this, but just as the apostles did, I will boldly stand on Gods word and the beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ.

God bless you all.

might this be a kind-of- version of the woman going into hiding? i mean, the church needing to turn underground?

 

[Giver]

Simply that the rapture of the Church (catching-up or Harpazo in the Greek or Raptura in the Latin) happens at the beginning or just before the seven year Tribulation begins (pre-tribulation). That the 70th week of Daniel (the 7 year Tribulation) cannot begin until the Holy Spirit (the Restrainer) is taken out of the way along with the Church being irrevocably linked. It is predominantly a dispensationalist belief and also supported by some proponents of the Premillennialist view. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensational , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretribulation
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism

I have a question. Were do the two prophets come from, if all those who are saved are taken up to heaven in the rapture?

 

[IisJustMe]

I have a question. Were do the two prophets come from, if all those who are saved are taken up to heaven in the rapture?

First, the Two Witnesses do not come from among modern day believers. It is obvious they have been held back by God for "such as time as this" when it comes. They are Enoch and Elijah, neither of whom died, but were taken up alive. The Witnesses are said to have an odor of fire and brimstone, evidence they are returned from Beyond. As to Tribulation believers, as Faith_Warrior and others stated earlier, the "taking up" of the current church does not negate new believers following these surprising (to the world) but nonetheless predicted events of the Rapture. Also, read the first post. This is a non-debate thread. If you don't believe in the Pre-Trib rapture, you are not to participate here, at least to debate. Ask the question, but now that's answered, drop it please.

 

[Psalms34]

Well, I don’t seem afraid of Obama. I don’t believe he is a closet Muslim. However, he vary well may be a flaming humanist. Could be bad if he gets elected, but both parties are basically heading the same way, just one usually tries to get there faster than the other. Talking about end results of course, they have their words that are different, not quite the same approach, but the same destination.

Could persecutions happen here before the 70th week of Daniel starts? Sure could, already a level of persecution going on in the US though just not at the level as it is in the rest of the world at this point. Could even get to a point of many being martyred, I would think that could be the case after they dissolve the Union and unite into the North American Union. Can you imagine the havoc by liberal/socialist politicians from the former US, Canada and Mexico getting together to make the new constitution and laws? That is inevitable though, someone set us up the bomb!!

btw, I'll be afk until later next month, just in case anyone notices the board slowing down
Unless the rapture happens before then so no promises

 

[tturt]

Petehears – That’s great that you’ve got a Bible study group for the deaf. What a ministry!

IisJustMe - I vote with you - that the Two Witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah.

cris413 - I know what you mean - the more I read, the more I realize then the more concern for many -

As far as things being fulfilled, in 2005, the Israeli government recognized a group from Spain as Israelites that fulfills Isa 60:9 “Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.”
Also, there are additional scriptures about gold being given to Israel – that has been happening for a while including just recently. At this particular event, when they presented it, their leader said God told them to do it.

Also, I always thought that when the rapture happened then people would recognize the reality of Yahweh. But I was reading recently that several things are being put into place to give explanations for the rapture. One is that we were taken by UFOs. (this isn’t a joke). Another idea is that we all decided at the same time to leave this environment. Also, I had to keep reminding myself that Christ Jesus’ return will be viewed as the anti-Christ by some.

What signs are left?

Someone said that the verse about everyone will hear about Christ Jesus means that every nation would hear not every individual. If that person is correct, then hasn't every nation heard?

 

[Psalms34]

btw, I'll be afk until later next month, just in case anyone notices the board slowing down
Unless the rapture happens before then so no promises

Bleh, I'm still here, the work trip got canceled last minute. So you are still stuck with me I guess


Anyway, regarding Enoch and Elijah, I fully agree. Wont that be a sight?

The UFO explanation is my belief as well, I think the AC will use that dramatically, and even cause false signs to get the world to unite for global "peace" so that the Earth may enter into some intergalactic federation of worlds. One possibility. I could go on and on about this, with UFO's and abductions and all. imo it's the return of the Nephilim.

I don't think any actual signs remain before the rapture, but it's a matter of the stage being set for the seven year period to proceed.

 

[IisJustMe]

Wondered where you went! You started this thread, and then left me to referee it! LOL

 

[Psalms34]

Wondered where you went! You started this thread, and then left me to referee it! LOL

lol yeah, wasn't sure if this thread was going to last very long here, good to see that it is still chugging along

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, it will chug along and yes all the signs have been fulfilled, it is just Gods timing now

 

[IisJustMe]

Yes, it will chug along and yes all the signs have been fulfilled, it is just Gods timing now

Something I've wondered about is, perhaps we must fulfill the Great Commission first? I've studied that passage, and it is an aorist imperative, meaning it is a single action (making disciples) but ongoing, never ending. However, with the rapture, the action would cease, at least for the church. Also, the "all" doesn't mean "all of them" but collectively, in this case, some of all the nations. Obviously, not all will be saved. So, what do you think? Is it required that all who will hear must hear in this, the Church Age,before the rapture occurs?

 

[psalms 91]

Something I've wondered about is, perhaps we must fulfill the Great Commission first? I've studied that passage, and it is an aorist imperative, meaning it is a single action (making disciples) but ongoing, never ending. However, with the rapture, the action would cease, at least for the church. Also, the "all" doesn't mean "all of them" but collectively, in this case, some of all the nations. Obviously, not all will be saved. So, what do you think? Is it required that all who will hear must hear in this, the Church Age,before the rapture occurs?

I believe that it is all in Gods timing but yes I believe the gospel has been preached in every corner and every nation I also believe that with all the communication we have out there that it is being preached every day to a good part of the world. Missionaries into the far reaches, etc. After we leave there is the 144,000 that will go throughout the world not to mention the two witnesses and I believe that there will be many that will become a witness and testimony by their death as well.

 

[Telrunya]

In keeping with this thread being a "safehouse" I'll just voice what I can agree on. To begin with I agree about Enoch and Elijah being the two witnesses.

Second it was brought up earlier in this thread about certain things being "illegal" to preach. This is evident as was brought up in Canada, where the government pressures churches not to preach against homosexuality and threaten them with hate speach laws. Maybe not "illegal" yet in the US but definately taboo subjects. Often churches are threatened with the removal of thier tax exempt status. This leaves me wondering about the churches that fear the removal of thier tax exempt status. Are they rendering unto Caecar what is Caesar's? Should a church be worried about loosing thier tax emempt status to the point they wont preach on certain subjects?

 

[IisJustMe]

Second it was brought up earlier in this thread about certain things being "illegal" to preach. This is evident as was brought up in Canada, where the government pressures churches not to preach against homosexuality and threaten them with hate speach laws. Maybe not "illegal" yet in the US but definately taboo subjects. Often churches are threatened with the removal of thier tax exempt status. This leaves me wondering about the churches that fear the removal of thier tax exempt status. Are they rendering unto Caecar what is Caesar's? Should a church be worried about loosing thier tax emempt status to the point they wont preach on certain subjects?

This brings up one of my pet peeves, but I probably should start another thread, rather than derail this one. Basically, just to finish the thought, the "tax exempt status" of a church is not granted by organizing under a 501 (c) (3), though most churches seem to do that these days. It is unnecessary. The First Amendment rights of freedom to exercise religion grants tax exempt status. The threat of removing it is a hollow threat, because to do that, the government would have to render the Constitution and Bill of Rights null and void. (Not that it won't happen.)

 

[psalms 91]

Have you read the Patriot Act? Seen the list of hate groups? They have already done it somewhat

 

[IisJustMe]

Have you read the Patriot Act? Seen the list of hate groups? They have already done it somewhat

I'm not sure what you're talking about, Bill. Got a link?

 

[psalms 91]

Patriot Act, warrantless wiretaps, survielance, electronic evesdropping, miltary detention of non combatants, etc. List of subversave groups include many mainline denominations. No links but easy enough to find. Might want to checkk out executiver orders as well not to mention take a look at who polices america in the event of a civil disription on a major scale.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

Haven't read beyond the first page of posts, but wanted to post in here. I do believe in a pre-trib rapture of the church. To me, it makes the most sense from a Biblical perspective. God has not appointed us to wrath, so why would God want us here when he pours out his wrath at the end times? Of course, there's more than just that, but I think it is one of the most important things.

Also, while I do believe that we will be taken out of here before the end, I do believe we should be living our lives so as to be prepared in case it is mid or even post-trib. It doesn't matter to me, which it is. All I say is come quickly Lord.

 

[Psalms34]

Well there is a lot concerning the other views that stump me. #1 reason for me is Israel. It’s a fulfillment of Ezekiel 36 concerning the rebirth as a nation.

Look:
1. They were scattered to all the nations, not just brought into bondage off to one nation as the other times this has happened. But specifically they would come back from being dispersed from all the nations as Ezekiel clearly points out.

2. In the 2000 years that they were dispersed into all the nations, they kept their identity. Name one nation (whole nation) that has ever done that. A decade or two of being dispersed form a land, national identity becomes nonexistent to the point of no hope for return.

3. Anyone ever study the six day war? If God wasn’t leading that battle for Israel, I’m a monkeys uncle. Without a doubt, God intervened in that battle, Israel had absolute zilch chance of winning that let alone capturing the temple mount. Intervene is probably a word that falls short, Israel was completely handed a total victory by God.

4. Since the Children of Israel have returned to the land and given full possession again, the land has turned from a worthless desert, useless swamp, into the jewel of the region that exports produce to the world. I think it is even a matter of time until they hit oil in the Negev desert. There certainly is a relationship between that land and the Children of Israel, the land is awake as well!

5. Israel has undoubtedly become a cup of trembling for the world.

6. Seeing all this, God has a plan for Israel, and the fulfillment of many promises and prophecies specifically for them. We the Church are not Israel, not Spiritual Israel, not Jews, but the Church; and our role is soon to come to fulfillment before Israel takes center stage once again, we shall be taken up.

Conclusion: Israel is God’s time clock, and that time is just about up. So look up!

 

[IisJustMe]

Patriot Act, warrantless wiretaps, survielance, electronic evesdropping, miltary detention of non combatants, etc. List of subversave groups include many mainline denominations. No links but easy enough to find. Might want to checkk out executiver orders as well not to mention take a look at who polices america in the event of a civil disription on a major scale.

Oh, I know what the Patriot Act is. I support the Patriot Act. There are multiple provisions written into it that it cannot be used except against terrorists, terrorist plots, etc. I've read through it. I've not seen any mention in it of specific organizations. In fact, here's a link: Patriot Act. If you can find a single mention of a church, ministry, Christian organization or even the word "mosque" in the Act, I will be dumbfounded. The Act describes the kind of activities that it can be used against, and they are activities no church would ever be involved in, unless its First Church of the Holy Jihad. Even so, the Act is insistent upon the protection of individual rights of all Americans, but particularly Muslim Americans.

 

[psalms 91]

Oh, I know what the Patriot Act is. I support the Patriot Act. There are multiple provisions written into it that it cannot be used except against terrorists, terrorist plots, etc. I've read through it. I've not seen any mention in it of specific organizations. In fact, here's a link: Patriot Act. If you can find a single mention of a church, ministry, Christian organization or even the word "mosque" in the Act, I will be dumbfounded. The Act describes the kind of activities that it can be used against, and they are activities no church would ever be involved in, unless its First Church of the Holy Jihad. Even so, the Act is insistent upon the protection of individual rights of all Americans, but particularly Muslim Americans.

The Patriot Act was used to try to gain access to libraries and has been used for picking innocent people up and holding them for long periods of time with no word of where they were, that is just some. Check out Congress for a list of subversave irginizations and you will be surprised at who is on it. Why do you think these federal dollars are going into churchs for programs? It is so they can dictate and control them to some extent.