Pre Trib Bible Study

[Douggg]

That scripture is referring to "anytime" your hearts be...

Not Jesus could return at anytime!

The very signs that Jesus gave us to show us when His return would take place, keep us from that Day overtaking us unexpectedly.


JLB

I agree that it is not talking about Jesus's Return to planet earth to the Mt of Olives. That day is specific in Revelation 19.

The inference in Luke 21:34-36 is that the rapture could take place at anytime, between now and when it actually happens.


Doug

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Why would the Lord come from heaven to the clouds above the earth only to make a U turn and go back to heaven?

JLB

That is not what the study teaches us. He comes for us out of His temple/dwelling place in heaven, and we meet Him at the door of entry into His tabernacle, in heaven.
We go in, shut the doors, and celebrate our consecration as adopted sons of the High Priest of the heavenly tabernacle and remain shut in for a full week.
That is what the Living Oracles teach us.

 

[JLB777]

That is not what the study teaches us. He comes for us out of His temple/dwelling place in heaven, and we meet Him at the door of entry into His tabernacle, in heaven.
We go in, shut the doors, and celebrate our consecration as adopted sons of the High Priest of the heavenly tabernacle and remain shut in for a full week.
That is what the Living Oracles teach us.

and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:20-21

Jesus will remain in heaven until it is time for Him to return to earth at the end of the age, at which time he destroys the antichrist,m and the Resurrection of the dead take place.

After the tribulation...


JLB

 

[Interplanner]

JLB, or the tribulation may not be an issue anyway because the first meaning of it is what happened in the 7th decade, in that generation of the apostles.

 

[ebedmelech]

No rants, please.
No attacking the messenger, please.
Attacking the messenger only shows your absence of Bible knowledge and understanding and your absolute refusal "to study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed".

The doctrine of the gathering together of the dead in Christ and the living in Christ saints in their regenerated bodies made for the glory is revealed by the Holy Spirit for those who study the living oracles for truth, which teach us the truths of God's one plan.

The gathering together unto Christ in heaven, before His heavenly tabernacle door, and entry in, is revealed in the Oracles which are the "Instructor/Teacher" of God's doctrine on His gathering of His people unto Himself, in heaven, and in new creation human being garments of priesthood; and gathered unto Him [in those garments typed in Leviticus 8] as adopted sons of God in the New Man name, so as to celebrate their week of consecration to the heavenly priesthood.

Numbers 10:1-7
Leviticus 8
Psalm 50
Psalm 75:2,3 -in Hebrew
Isaiah 26:19-21

There's no attacking the messenger...the messenger simply has an erroneous paradigm of the end times.

When Paul says the Jews and Gentiles are ONE in Christ...that's what it means...ONE IN CHRIST!!!

Psalm 75:2,3 -in Hebrew...doesn't make your case either...you're "cherry picking"! What's the context of the Psalm? Clearly the righteous and the wicked.

Now...the "gathering unto Christ of the righteous" is ONE event...all you have to do is read the passage.

Numbers 10...the trumpets were blown at EVERY festival gathering. So...what about the latter harvest before the Feast of Tabernacles??? Look at what preceeds the feast of Tabernacles...Leviticus 23:39:
39‘On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the Lord for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day.

What about that harvest...

Leviticus 8...you have no point...believers are priests...Christ is the High Priest, try reading Hebrews.

Psalm 50...again you have no point...because God gathers His righteous ones..that's the entirety of the church.

Isaiah 26:19-21...again you cherry pick...the context is righteous and wicked.

So...in trying to make a point you want to remove text from context...a terrible way to approach a passage...you take all...or none...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

There's no attacking the messenger...the messenger simply has an erroneous paradigm of the end times.

When Paul says the Jews and Gentiles are ONE in Christ...that's what it means...ONE IN CHRIST!!!

And they are Jews and they are Gentiles and they are male and they are female who will be raptured pre-trib.

I am a born again in Christ married female Gentile and I will be raptured pre-trib along with my born again in Christ male Gentile husband.

Your argument has nothing to do with the pre-trib rapture Bible study, for all Jews and Gentiles, male and female believers will be raptured pre-trib.

The fact that one is adopted into the One Living Spirit and therefore is "one" with Christ does not make one a non Jew or non Gentile or non male or non female. There is no such teaching as you, a male Gentile confessor of Christ, becoming a non- male or non-Gentile at your adoption into Christ's One Living Spirit.

 

[ebedmelech]

And they are Jews and they are Gentiles and they are male and they are female who will be raptured pre-trib.

I am a born again in Christ married female Gentile and I will be raptured pre-trib along with my born again in Christ male Gentile husband.

Your argument has nothing to do with the pre-trib rapture Bible study, for all Jews and Gentiles, male and female believers will be raptured pre-trib.

The fact that one is adopted into the One Living Spirit and therefore is "one" with Christ does not make one a non Jew or non Gentile or non male or non female. There is no such teaching as you, a male Gentile confessor of Christ, becoming a non- male or non-Gentile at your adoption into Christ's One Living Spirit.

Keep waiting for it then...you'll find out the rapture is on the last day.

Furthermore "one in Christ" refers to salvation...and makes the point it makes no difference who you are...God will save you.

Lastly...knowing when one is saved...they become a spiritual Jew in reality...they become citizens of the "Israel of God"...therefore they are of the 144,000 of the "spiritual Israel" that is made up of every tribe kindred, nation and tongue...that no man can number!!!

You'll.. know when the time comes...Paul said it was a mystery...obviously, you haven't figured it out yet...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:20-21

Jesus will remain in heaven until it is time for Him to return to earth at the end of the age, at which time he destroys the antichrist,m and the Resurrection of the dead take place.

After the tribulation...


JLB

Before the tribulation, Jesus comes out of His temple and stands at the door in heaven, to receive watching and praying believers unto Himself, and He takes them to where He is, and they remain there, as the Scriptures I posted do show, for the seven days of celebration of their consecration to the heavenly priesthood, serving under the Firstborn Son of God of human being creation as His adopted sons, and dressed in their beautiful priestly garments =New Man bodies, as oracled in Leviticus 8.
We remain there with Him until after the tribulation, when we do come with the holy angels to cleanse the earth and set up His kingdom of God on it for the Sabbath Millennium of its peace.

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Interplanner]

Hi Vinsight,
how does Mt 24 show that? It may all look a little different when synced with its times.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

What will happen before the rapture? The dead in Christ rise!

So what kind of people are dying in Rev. 14? dying in the Lord

Who dies in the LORD in Rev 14?
The 144,000 do not die and are translated to glory without dying, as firstfruits of the last harvest which is typed in Tabernacles, and they are translated to glory in the middle of the tribulation, which has dead martyrs in it who do not get resurrected in bodies until the end of tribulation.
The last harvest overtakes the first, in that the gleanings of the first harvest are not raised until the end of the tribulation.

The first harvest has three ingathering stages: First of Firstfruits
Firstfruits
Gleanings =the trib martyrs, and
that ends the first resurrection.
No ne dies in righteousness and is resurrected after the return of Jesus and the resurrection of the trib martyrs ever after for the thousand year reign.
But the 144,000 firstfruits of the last harvest from the twelve tribes of Israel are taken like Enoch was, alive, and translated to bodies of glory, and they do not die.

The alive and remaining saints who are changed at the second/last blast of the two trumpets as oracled in Numbers 10 do not die, either, pre-trib, but are translated/changed at that last blast sounded as their call to be gathered together to Christ in heaven, at His tabernacle door, with the resurrected dead in Christ.

 

[Bible2]

Douggg said in post 41:

The inference in Luke 21:34-36 is that the rapture could take place at anytime, between now and when it actually happens.

Note that Luke 21:34-36 doesn't require any anytime, or a pre-tribulation, rapture, for some in the church will escape all of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1), and others in the church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape it by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord in heaven (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape it by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which will not occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

*******

Douggg said in post 32:

There is nothing in the bible that says that the rapture can't happen pre-trib. I personally am ARV, Anytime Rapture View.

Note that the rapture can't happen at anytime, or pre-tribulation, because Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' second coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same second coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same second coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the third Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, compare Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" (Revelation 3:5). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and all the unsaved armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

The mistaken idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is dangerous because when no pre-tribulation rapture occurs, and pre-trib believers begin to suffer in the tribulation, they could think that God has somehow been defeated by Satan, that Satan by his power has caused a pre-trib rapture not to happen despite God wanting one to. Or they could think that God has cruelly broken his (supposed) promise, that he has pulled the rug out from under them, that he cruelly lied to them and must now be laughing at their surprise and suffering (Proverbs 1:26), so that in their rage they could curse God and commit apostasy during the tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

And even if they instead rightly think, "Okay, we must have just been mistaken in thinking that the rapture was supposed to be pre-trib. Satan hasn't defeated God, and God didn't lie to us", nonetheless, because they had held so strongly to the pre-trib idea for so long, their minds could be completely unprepared to face the long tribulation that lies ahead of them (just as holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of preterism, or historicism, or symbolicism, or spiritualism, could leave some believers less prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation). The Bible gives believers clear warning ahead of time about everything that they're going to have to face during the future tribulation (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), so that they can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that's coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), that is, until death or until Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

*******

Douggg said in post 33:

The cornerstone of the Anytime Rapture view is to be ready and watching...

During the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Christians will have to "watch" (stay awake, spiritually) for Jesus' second coming (Matthew 25:13), which will not occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For if a Christian is not "watching" (staying awake, spiritually) for the second coming, it will take that Christian by surprise (compare the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). And that Christian will lose his salvation at that time because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

Also, even when we know the truth that the Lord's return will not occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), we still need to live each day knowing that any of us could die at any time (Luke 12:20, James 4:14).

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 44:

JLB, or the tribulation may not be an issue anyway because the first meaning of it is what happened in the 7th decade, in that generation of the apostles.

Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' second coming and gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, second coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hoses 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, that is, won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and second coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until seventy or eighty years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the second coming will occur right before, like one year, before that generation will pass: that is, 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the second coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last seven years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) "immediately after" the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

-

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming, for it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit, for it could be destroyed before Jesus' second coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman army.

 

[Douggg]

Note that Luke 21:34-36 doesn't require any anytime, or a pre-tribulation, rapture, for some in the church will escape all of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1), and others in the church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape it by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord in heaven (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape it by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which will not occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Oh brother. Just be ready and watching.

Note that the rapture can't happen at anytime, or pre-tribulation, because Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' second coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same second coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same second coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the third Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, compare Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" (Revelation 3:5). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and all the unsaved armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

The mistaken idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is dangerous because when no pre-tribulation rapture occurs, and pre-trib believers begin to suffer in the tribulation, they could think that God has somehow been defeated by Satan, that Satan by his power has caused a pre-trib rapture not to happen despite God wanting one to. Or they could think that God has cruelly broken his (supposed) promise, that he has pulled the rug out from under them, that he cruelly lied to them and must now be laughing at their surprise and suffering (Proverbs 1:26), so that in their rage they could curse God and commit apostasy during the tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

And even if they instead rightly think, "Okay, we must have just been mistaken in thinking that the rapture was supposed to be pre-trib. Satan hasn't defeated God, and God didn't lie to us", nonetheless, because they had held so strongly to the pre-trib idea for so long, their minds could be completely unprepared to face the long tribulation that lies ahead of them (just as holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of preterism, or historicism, or symbolicism, or spiritualism, could leave some believers less prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation). The Bible gives believers clear warning ahead of time about everything that they're going to have to face during the future tribulation (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), so that they can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that's coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), that is, until death or until Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

A person holding the ARV will be 100% right as long as they are ready and watching.

Doug

 

[Interplanner]

to bible2 re v34.
Actually I think he lapsed back to the immediate generation because: 1, it says so (v34) and 2, because the fig tree imagery was always about the present.

Therefore just 29-31 were meant to 'describe' the end of time after the Judean events. 36+ was meant to warn how surprisingly destructive it would come rather than describe it. And that only the Father would decide the end of time.

Bear in mind, Judaism was expecting an easy time of it, a paradise, a millenium. I can't blame them; they had had a rough 6 centuries! But the introductory questions show that complete surprise that something awful was going happen. They expected a grand kingdom to start with what they saw before them and just get better and smoother.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[yeshuasavedme]

Hi yeshuasavedme,

The 144,000 are not going to die. They learn a song that comes down to them (among men).

I agree that the 144,000 do not die but are translated to glory bodies mid-trib and are what the Word says: Firstfruits of Israel, 12,000 each from the twelve tribes of Israel. the last harvest of sons of God, and the firstfruits are ingathered before the gleanings of the first harvest is ended