Pre-nups

[Tamara224]

Question to everyone - What keep you guys motivated to keep posting, when it's obvious that no one is going to change their opinion?

What motivated you to post this post, since it's obvious that we'll keep posting even though you think it's fruitless?

But to answer your question: Because it's fun and posting is what we do here.

 

[dluvs2trvl]

Since it seems very difficult for kof to read my individual posts I decided to do as he wishes and put them all together in one spot...here you go kof...

I think that pre-nups are just a bad idea. I think that they set a tone for mistrust in the marriage.

If a person has any doubt and feels that there is a need for a pre-nup then I don't think they should be getting married...unless you feel that you can trust someone 100% and you don't need a fall back plan then I don't think you are ready to get married....because either you have trust issues that you haven't worked through yet or there is something about the person that you are considering marrying that makes you hesitate.

I think all to often we ignore that still small voice that is telling us not to do something and we plow ahead anyways and figure the legal system will protect us.

I also think that if you end up divorcing it really doesn't matter if you have a pre-nup or not because rarely does a pre-nup stand without being contested...so I guess people can either fight it out in court over the pre-nup or they can fight it out over the divorce settlement...really doesn't matter in the long run...

But like I said before, I think a pre-nup sets a bad tone for the marriage and create a sense of doubt and insecurity right from the get go...

Just my .02

Again, I think this mindset actually speaks more to who are "you" (and I'm speaking about the universal "you" not anyone in particular) dating and marrying. People seem to be really worried about other people being deceitful and misleading...who are these people and where are you meeting them? Yes, I'm not stupid or naive - I understand that anyone can mislead you and be deceitful - even Christians - but I just think it is really sad that "you" would go into a relationship already expecting there to be deceit down the road...

Again, for me it goes back to trust....that is more important to me than money...

Actually, I think you're missing my point...if one person is unsure then you shouldn't be getting married...whether it was 1 month or 3 years...

Again, the same could be said in reverse. Why is it that you are giving more weight to the man's point of view (or to the woman if she is asking for the pre-nup) then to the one who is uncomfortable with signing it? Why do you think that it would only be a small discomfort to the person being asked to sign it? Why do you think it is more important for the person who is asking for it to feel comfortable than for the person who doesn't want to sign it?

You are focused soley on the financial side of a marriage and are giving no importance to the actual relationship of the marriage and the idea of two people becoming one...that is being totally left out of your equation and scenerio.

I agree with you...if a man was as adament about having me sign a pre-nup then I wouldn't marry him either. My point of view is just as self-focused as yours. You said, "If all she can think about is herself and not the welfare of the person she is with?" Why isn't the same true in reverse? Why shouldn't the man consider the welfare and feelings of the woman he is with?

You also said that it doesn't sound like "she would do anything" for the person she is with...again, why is that wrong and yet you don't consider the man NOT signing a pre-nup as doing anything for the person that he is with....

If you're not willing to take that chance then you're not ready for marriage...

Are you kidding me? I'm just amazed at how everyone seems to think that the person who wouldn't sign the pre-nup is the one that should go against what they are feeling and do what the other person wants. Why is that?

Why aren't you guys saying the same thing about the other person? Why shouldn't they have to set aside their pride? Why shouldn't they have to set aside what they want in order to be with the person that they love and want to marry? Why shouldn't they have to live without a pre-nup in order to make the other person happy?

And signing something in spite of my feeling of lack of trust would be the foolish thing to do...

Is the reason that you guys think the person asking for the pre-nup should get what they want is because you're assuming that they have all the money and the one who doesn't want to sign it doesn't have any money? Is that why you all are giving more importance to that person? I find that kind of interesting...

I agree but as I said in a later post, there are other ways to protect the money so that it is available to either you or your child...

I also agree with this, but I don't agree with starting out a marriage with a "safety net" just in case they become someone different...as I said, there are ways to handle money without using a pre-nup...

Anyways, I do understand what many of you are saying about the validity and need for a pre-nup and I am willing to concede that if I met someone and fell madly in love with him and was going to marry him and then he presented me with the idea of a pre-nup - I would have to pause and consider it...at this point, I seriously don't know if I would agree to it though - but I'm also not madly in love with anyone at the moment so I'm making that statement without those emotions being involved...

I could talk about how demanding that someone sign a pre-nup sounds a lot like trying to control the marriage and the spouse....or I could talk about how not signing a pre-nup has absolutely nothing to do with being able to commit to a relationship and actually is a reflection of the ability for the person demanding it to trust someone...I could also talk about how children are sooooo much more valuable than money and I don't understand how you could say that you'd trust a woman with your children but not with your money because if she hurt the kids you could take legal action...why would you put your children in jeopardy then if you really don't think you can trust her??? (I know we are talking in extremes here but I think it is a valid question)...but I won't talk about any of those things...I'll just let it go...

I understand what you are saying and I too see the logical side of it...but I guess for me I see it as starting the marriage out on the wrong foot so to speak where you might see it as starting it out on the right foot...

It's all good...everyone has their own opinion and point of view...what really matters is if the two people who are getting married can come to an agreement about signing or not signing a pre-nup...if not, then they've got a problem...

And until we are put in that position with all those emotions involved - none of us really knows how we would react or what we would do...

I'll say it again...if she had those fears then she shouldn't be marrying him...if she needs a piece of paper to know that he is an upstanding guy who can be trusted then she shouldn't be marrying him...if she has a lot of money then she should already be working with a financial advisor who can help her set up her finances properly...etc, etc., etc.

If that's what you need in order for me to prove my trustworthiness to you - then you don't know me well enough to marry me...
If I need a piece of paper to know that I can trust you then I shouldn't be marrying you...
And by asking for a pre-nup you are questioning my character...which you should have already seen evidence of if you plan on marrying me...

You know what Luther...that sounds way to much like conditional love...and that just doesn't set well with me...

We are to love unconditionally - as Christ loves us - and I would think that to be especially true of loving our spouse...

I wouldn't want to be with someone that expects me to prove my love or my trustworthiness to him by signing a piece of paper...that isn't the kind of love that I'm looking for...

If the only action that would speak loudly in order to prove trustworthiness is signing a pre-nup - then I think there hasn't been enough time in the relationship for other actions to be observed...

But if there is doubt then should they really be getting married to begin with??? I just don't buy it...

I think that if there is so much doubt or distrust or fear that you need to have someone prove it to you through some sort of "exercise" then you aren't ready to be married and especially not ready to be married to the person you feel needs to prove themselves to you...

(and I'm talking in the universal "you" not to anyone in particular)

You can't separate the two...you talk about the fact that after a divorce the emotional welfare would be out the window...a prenup is singed BEFORE the divorce and BEFORE the marraige - that absolutely affects the emotional well being of the relationship.

And yes, I can talk about emotions in relation to a pre-nup - you're the one that has wanted to separate the two issues not me...so you can talk about the "logical" financial side of things all you want - feel free....but I will talk about the emotional side as well because there is one in regards to pre-nups. I am sticking to the topic and not wandering off - you just don't like my point of view or the emotional issues that I bring up...

 

[kingoffools13]

*yawns* ad hominem is a base form of debate

I have read all of these posts, responded to most of them ... they are missing one thing

a "list of reasons"

you repeat the same thing over and over in different words

so to officially summarize your list:
1. You would have trust issues if they wanted a pre-nup

/list

aside from it taking about 20 posts for you to admit there was only one reason you had in mind, i already responded to this one before but it must not have stuck with you. What i said was something to the effect of:

do you derive all of your assurance of trust out of whether or not someone asks for a pre-nup? are you saying that there is absolutly no other way in the world, the galaxy, universe, that he could do anything to assure you of the fact he trusts you? no token, inkling, hint of reassurance he could offer you other than "not" asking for a pre-nup?

Futher, if the pre-nup is the make or break issue (already established for you it is) does this mean you base your love on prenuptial agreements? If yes, is it really love? If no, why could you not get past it (and if you cant get past it, were you really honest about the "no").

lets remove the trust issue ... you fall for a rich man ... better yet, a man from a rich family, he trusts you implicitly, as you do him. He asks for your hand in marriage, you accept ... but his family insists on a prenuptial agreement due to past bad experiences. If he doesnt get one, they disown him (i know rich people are so snooty), but on the other hand there is you who doesnt want to sign one. The issue of trust is removed because it is not his idea ... now who's needs are more important(rhetorical).

K
O
F

 

[kingoffools13]

At least your good for a laugh cause you're cracking me up!

see it was worth getting up this morning just for that

K
O
F

 

[dluvs2trvl]

Ok...since you still don't like my reasons - oh wait, reason....I'll just post this again...

You know what kingoffools...would it help if I said you are absolutely right? Everything you said makes perfect sense and I'm just a dumb woman who doesn't know anything and doesn't know how to state her reasons or how to type a post...sorry I'm so dense and incapable of expressing my thoughts... I'll try to work on that and get better at stringing a sentence and thought together

Everything you said makes perfect sense and I really appreciate you showing me the errors of my ways. I'm so glad that you came along and made things so much clearer to me.

Logic devoid of emotion is the way to go...

(Does that make you feel better? Do you have the satisfaction of proving your point and "winning" the debate?)

 

[kingoffools13]

And that is the sound of someone trying to sarcastically cover the fact that they don't have a good answer.
your lack of real answer is answer enough for anyone reading.

K
O
F

i'm off ... have fun

 

[dluvs2trvl]

Futher, if the pre-nup is the make or break issue (already established for you it is) does this mean you base your love on prenuptial agreements? If yes, is it really love? If no, why could you not get past it (and if you cant get past it, were you really honest about the "no").

Oh my gosh kingoffools - are you sitting down?!? - this is the first thing you've said that I would actually be willing to consider and think about...I actually, hadn't thought about it that way...I know you're shocked but I really do read your posts - it's just that up until now - you hadn't said anything worth me considering...so there you go - you've actually made a point that has given me pause...

 

[dluvs2trvl]

And that is the sound of someone trying to sarcastically cover the fact that they don't have a good answer.
your lack of real answer is answer enough for anyone reading.

K
O
F

i'm off ... have fun

Oh ok - gotcha! You know everything about how people think and the reasons why someone might actually choose not to respond to you...got it! I'll keep that in mind the next time we run across each other on the boards...

 

[JPPT1974]

It would all depend on whether
You want one or not
As well as your spouse agreeing with ya.

 

[ido]

When they take you for half of your money? they are taking you for half of the time you had saved up, taking away, again in essence, part of your life.

Wow. And what about the woman's POV? Chances are good that they stayed at home, reared children and did all of the behind the scenes support work for the breadwinner husband. After even a few years out of the FT workforce, the chances of securing a job that pays well enough to support yourself, and possibly any children still at home, are slim at best. Especially if the woman is 40+. Whatever "half" they get, I can guarantee that most of them deserve. To generalize based on a small percentage who are looking to get their claws into something they don't deserve (like Anna Nicole Smith) is unfair, IMO.

 

[ido]

Question to everyone - What keep you guys motivated to keep posting, when it's obvious that no one is going to change their opinion?

For me, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I'm just stating mine and want for it to be respected - even if it's not agreed with.

 

[Annova]

you fall for a rich man ... better yet, a man from a rich family, he trusts you implicitly, as you do him. He asks for your hand in marriage, you accept ... but his family insists on a prenuptial agreement due to past bad experiences. If he doesnt get one, they disown him (i know rich people are so snooty), but on the other hand there is you who doesnt want to sign one. The issue of trust is removed because it is not his idea ... now who's needs are more important(rhetorical).

K
O
F

Now your brining in the parents. It's not the parents business to involve themselves. It's up to the couple what they want to do and if both people love each other, they won't let parents intefer with their decisions and happiness.

If they guy I wanted to marry's parents said that and he went along with it, I'd break up with him. Shows that he lets parents make decisions and can't on his own. Also makes me wonder what else they interfer themselves with.

 

[dluvs2trvl]

For me, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I'm just stating mine and want for it to be respected - even if it's not agreed with.

I couldn't agree more!!!

In the end the only opinion that is going to matter and the only one that I'm going to have to take into consideration is my future husband.