Pre Nup

[Savage78]

What does metal and paper have to do with the Spirit? you completely glossed what i said didnt you. A Spiritual union in marriage with each other and Christ is something a nonbeliever/skeptic cannot experience. Its no wonder you missed that in what i stated.

Love is not something that is held only by the theist. Love is universal...and the spirit (if you swing that way) is still present whetehr you are married or not...marriage doesnt do any hocus pocus on your spirit, it either is or isnt, you either love or dont love...whetehr you married or live in "sin" (if you swing that way as well) and have children the love shouldnt be lessened because you have metal and paper.

 

[Savage78]

You are who only has metal and a peice of paper. (oh and a prenup peice of paper)

I dont kid myself, I also know that i wouldnt love my wife any less without it, and I dont blame any hocus pocus either.

 

[Angel4Truth]

The marital bed is blessed by God : Hebrews 13: 4. Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

The intimacy between a man and a woman in Christ is the not the same as intimacy between an unmarried couple or a couple who do not believe in God. How can one who denies God claim that they have a spiritual union - what spirit unites them? It isnt the Holy Spirit

 

[Angel4Truth]

I dont kid myself, I also know that i wouldnt love my wife any less without it, and I dont blame any hocus pocus either.

If you loved your wife in the Spirit of God you wouldnt need a prenup.

 

[Savage78]

The marital bed is blessed by God : Hebrews 13: 4. Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

This is the hocus pocus I was refering to. What about a hindus marital bed..is it not blessed?

The intimacy between a man and a woman in Christ is the not the same as intimacy between an unmarried couple or a couple who do not believe in God.

You have evidence of this..is the sex better when you are a christian? Is there more trust? Is there more intamacy? Is their no sex problems in a God marriage? I sthere no intamacy issues?

How can one who denies God claim that they have a spiritual union - what spirit unites them? It isnt the Holy Spirit

I was a christian when i got married.

 

[Savage78]

If you loved your wife in the Spirit of God you wouldnt need a prenup.

So any christian with a pre nup (there are many) isnt in the spirit of god? Would you judge it so?

 

[Angel4Truth]

If "you were a christian" when you married your wife - and needed a prenup, that would mean either you did not consult God on your choice , or you did and he said no hence the need for a prenup and youve already exculded yourself from His blessing for going against it- it wouldnt have been a "business arangement" . No i do not believe that Jesus Christ blesses the marriage of a hindu because they do not believe in Jesus Christ or His blessings so thats a given.

Calling my belief in God and His desires "hocus pocus" wont get you any kind of worthy discussion so with this post you can count me unsubscribed. Have a good day.

 

[quatona]

A marriage is a business arrangement at best.

A marriage is what the participants feel it is.
If you and your wife consider it a business arrangement - a pre-nup seems to be the most reasonable thing to have.

You can live with someone and not be married and not love them any less or once you are merried not love them any more than you did.

Sure. Yet, many people do not consider their marriage a business arrangement, and quite some would consider a business arrangement as possibly getting in the way of love. Heck, I don´t even make business arrangements with friends. If they need money and I have it, I give it to them. If they give it back to me, ok, if not, ok also.

 

[Savage78]

If "you were a christian" when you married your wife - and needed a prenup, that would mean either you did not consult God on your choice , or you did and he said no hence the need for a prenup and youve already exculded yourself from His blessing for going against it- it wouldnt have been a "business arangement" . No i do not believe that Jesus Christ blesses the marriage of a hindu because they do not believe in Jesus Christ or His blessings so thats a given.

God didnt answer me. He is funy like that. As for blessings, I have ammassed more wealth than I can spend...however I call it hard work, not blessing.

Calling my belief in God and His desires "hocus pocus" wont get you any kind of worthy discussion so with this post you can count me unsubscribed. Have a good day.

It is what itis..I am sorry you are leaving. I hope you have an excellent day.

 

[chipmunk]

You could change your mind and want vengenace and take him for all he is worth.

This would require a major personality change. I can sure think of ways to extract vengeance, but I honestly can't carry them out. No matter how much someone ticks me off I just can't be that cruel. For example, if I had wanted I could have taken everything from the last guy I was with except his computer, apartment, clothes and money. Everything else was mine--the bed, the furniture, the cooking utensils, the TV, etc. He would have come home to nothing (even the electric was in my name). Instead, I moved in with a friend (slept on an air mattress for a month too) and allowed him to use my things until he could afford to buy his own and then had most of my things put into storage (some things I let him keep because he needed them more than I and I can eventually replace them). This after he tells me I have a week to find my own place. Nice. I figure vengeful thoughts may be very pleasing, but carrying them out has never really been worth it to me.

What if lets say for example, in your joint account you had a million dollars, he contributed $900,000 to it and you only contibuted $100,000 would you still go after half, or 1/10?

If my share was $100,00 of the account, then I have more than enough to live on without taking $400,000 from him. I live now on less than $13,000 a year. I know how to conserve money and live on very little. He can keep it. I don't need his fortune. If the situation were reversed I would probably offer him half the account. It is how I am. *shrug*

However, if we had aggreed on custody of the children staying with me, then I would fight to have him help support them. Which doesn't necessarily have to be money sent to me. It could be something like providing money for their lunches (given to them), or a savings account in their name, or buying them clothes. Whatever, seems reasonable to us.

I guess the bottom line for me is that if we can't trust each other not to be that petty in the event of some breakup neither of us want or anticipate, then we really shouldn't be getting married. I expect the person I marry to trust enough in my character to not require a prenuptial and I will do the same for that person.

 

[Bombila]

Savage 78, I find the whole notion of pre-nups distasteful, I find your paranoid attitude towards women distasteful as well. You have claimed to be very well-off, and perhaps that has coloured your attitude, as I imagine the very rich may be more likely to attract partners more interested in money than love. You casually insult all women with your ideas about the handsomeness of your children and the protection of your estate from the woman you claim to love (as if as soon as a marriage breaks down, every woman turns into a hateful snake, which is patently untrue).

I notice twice you have referred to keeping your assets intact for your eldest male heir, another old fashioned, mysoginist, cruel practice, which over the centuries has led to much hardship for children not fortunate enough to be the favoured first male. (I can look to my own immediate forebears, where the assets were land, not money: the oldest male got all the land, and the rest of the children were forced to struggle, the children of farmers with no hope of obtaining enough farmland to practice the living they were raised with, despite the endless labour with which they had supported the very farm now owned by their eldest brother).

I would not marry any man who even suggested a pre-nup, regardless of whether he or I was the richer person, as I would assume he had no real love for me, no real trust in me, and a lousy opinion of women in general. We have courts in my country which oversee division of assets in the event the parties cannot agree: there is no 'alimony' here, only child support, and the overwhelming evidence is that women and children suffer from divorce far more than do men, who often make more money after the divorce, except in cases where the man takes child custody, in which he is more likely to suffer financially.

 

[chaz345]

I personally wouldn´t marry a woman whom I would suspect to not consider my interests in case of a split up, and I wouldn´t marry a woman who suspects me not to consider her interests in case of a split up.

Sound thinking except for the fact that many split ups have, as a root cause, a failure to consider the interests of the other party.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Prenups aren't all bad. Prenups have gotten a bad name because they have traditionally been used by the rich to avoid sharing their wealth when they marry for pleasure, rather than for business or political alliance.

However, today with family laws changing so rapidly and varying so much from place to place in an increasingly mobile society, new kinds of prenups are being developed to afford some stability and legal predictability that local laws can't provide. They also can allow a couple to structure their marriage expectations according to the values of their own community, rather than the values of whatever lobbying group currently has the upper hand in the legislature of the state in which they happen to find themselves at the time they run into trouble. (You might be amazed at the amount of influence the first wives lobby and the second wives lobby have had in Sacramento, and what chaos constant law changes can create.)

One example of this kind of prenup recommended by some leading pro-family Christian organizations can be found here:

http://www.familylife.com/resources/mcbac/articles.asp

 

[quatona]

Sound thinking except for the fact that many split ups have, as a root cause, a failure to consider the interests of the other party.

Although this is certainly true I fail to see how this renders my thinking unsound (or adds a layer of unsoundness to it).

 

[Savage78]

Savage 78, I find the whole notion of pre-nups distasteful, I find your paranoid attitude towards women distasteful as well.

I am sorry to hear that.

You have claimed to be very well-off, and perhaps that has coloured your attitude, as I imagine the very rich may be more likely to attract partners more interested in money than love.

This is true, as I have found. Some of the women I have dealt with were very bad gold diggers.

You casually insult all women with your ideas about the handsomeness of your children

Is it an insult to say that if I have a beautiful wife, then I shall have beautiful children? Some could take it as a compliment.

Also is it wrong for me to want attractive children?

and the protection of your estate from the woman you claim to love (as if as soon as a marriage breaks down, every woman turns into a hateful snake, which is patently untrue).

Not every woman, but it has happened before and continues to happen. Love has nothing to do with assets, love has nothing to do with pre nups.

I notice twice you have referred to keeping your assets intact for your eldest male heir, another old fashioned, mysoginist, cruel practice, which over the centuries has led to much hardship for children not fortunate enough to be the favoured first male.

(I can look to my own immediate forebears, where the assets were land, not money: the oldest male got all the land, and the rest of the children were forced to struggle, the children of farmers with no hope of obtaining enough farmland to practice the living they were raised with, despite the endless labour with which they had supported the very farm now owned by their eldest brother).

I myself am not the favoured first male, I am the middle child. With hardwork I built myself up, I sacrificed the years of my youth I didnt drink, gamble, hang out or whatever. I worked at being able to live comfortable life, anyone and everyone can do so...some people just dont have the drive to be well off.

My sons will learn this from me, and they will either apply it or not but they will have to make their own way through life as i did...if they fail let it rest on their own heads. My daughters will be well taken care of as I will arrange for them to marry into good families.

I would not marry any man who even suggested a pre-nup, regardless of whether he or I was the richer person, as I would assume he had no real love for me, no real trust in me, and a lousy opinion of women in general.

An opinion you are entitled to.

We have courts in my country which oversee division of assets in the event the parties cannot agree: there is no 'alimony' here, only child support, and the overwhelming evidence is that women and children suffer from divorce far more than do men, who often make more money after the divorce, except in cases where the man takes child custody, in which he is more likely to suffer financially.

I have always maintained that you choose your spouse with great care. Not alot of people do so.

 

[Mling]

My sons will learn this from me, and they will either apply it or not but they will have to make their own way through life as i did...if they fail let it rest on their own heads. My daughters will be well taken care of as I will arrange for them to marry into good families.

what if your daughters also want to learn about hard work, personal accountability, and the benefits of being a self-sufficient, fully rounded human being?

I have always maintained that you choose your spouse with great care. Not alot of people do so.

My father is a diagnosable Narcisist, but it literally takes at least a decade for this to come out. He is very subtle in his lies (which may not be "lies" per-se, as he believes them himself) and his showing off is gentle enough that it seems very charming at first. But, after many years, the charming twists around and the dark side is revealed. His always having a cool story about something is turned into "whatever you say, I know something better." His always having an answer turns into "whatever you do or say is wrong." His helpfulness becomes "give it to me, you can't do anything right." How should my mother have known that, in 20 years, everything that makes my father interesting and attractive would become biting and abusive?

How does a person predict that, in several decades, a death in the family or a collapse in the economy will trigger their spouse taking up drinking or gambling, and that their entire personality will change?

 

[Crazy Liz]

My daughters will be well taken care of as I will arrange for them to marry into good families.

And what advice will you give them about prenups?

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Personally, I don't think I'd want to have a pre-nuptial agreement at all. If and when I get married, I hope that it will be for life. Now, I know that things don't always work out, but for me personally, having a pre-nup is basically starting from a position of cynicism about yourself, your spouse, marriage and love itself. I think it would probably be harder (for me at least) to make things work when there is a seed of doubt and mistrust planted in the relationship from the beginning.

Also, if I were to be divorced, I wouldn't really care about money. I intend to work just as much as my future partner, and to me there are far more important things than wealth. Also, not only do I sincerely hope not to get divorced, I also don't intend to engender such hatred and bitterness in my spouse as to make him want to take all my money. And I certainly wouldn't marry someone I thought at the time would ever do that to me anyway.

Besides which, I see money after a certain point of basic necessity as being for spending on things, so apart from a pension and money for the kids, once the bills are paid everything left I will probably spend on charitable causes, friends and then use what's left to have a good time with.

I may just be bitter about people being richer than me, but I tend to agree with my aunt, who says: "People like us will never get rich, because what we have we give to others." I would rather have enough to live and be happy than, like most rich people I know, be exceedingly lonely, miserly and mistrustful of family and friends to the point that happy and meaningful relationships are practically impossible.

 

[Savage78]

And what advice will you give them about prenups?

The men they will marry, will already have entered into a binding legal agree ment between my family and his. I will look out for them, or their eldest brother if I am deceased.

 

[Savage78]

Personally, I don't think I'd want to have a pre-nuptial agreement at all. If and when I get married, I hope that it will be for life. Now, I know that things don't always work out, but for me personally, having a pre-nup is basically starting from a position of cynicism about yourself, your spouse, marriage and love itself. I think it would probably be harder (for me at least) to make things work when there is a seed of doubt and mistrust planted in the relationship from the beginning.

Also if a person refuses to sign, it is a sign of mistrust.

Also, if I were to be divorced, I wouldn't really care about money. I intend to work just as much as my future partner, and to me there are far more important things than wealth. Also, not only do I sincerely hope not to get divorced, I also don't intend to engender such hatred and bitterness in my spouse as to make him want to take all my money. And I certainly wouldn't marry someone I thought at the time would ever do that to me anyway.

As someone pointed out earlier...you just cant tell how people will react.

Besides which, I see money after a certain point of basic necessity as being for spending on things, so apart from a pension and money for the kids, once the bills are paid everything left I will probably spend on charitable causes, friends and then use what's left to have a good time with.

True, but dont you wish your family to have the very best of everything.

I may just be bitter about people being richer than me, but I tend to agree with my aunt, who says: "People like us will never get rich, because what we have we give to others." I would rather have enough to live and be happy than, like most rich people I know, be exceedingly lonely, miserly and mistrustful of family and friends to the point that happy and meaningful relationships are practically impossible.

Mistrustful is not the issue, you are painting all rich people with a broad brush. I am surrounded by loved ones, I give to charity both money and my personal time. I give my family the very best that i can, my son will be well traveled and learn about high society and culture.

That makes me extremely happy