Praying to Mary???? or

[stuart lawrence]

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.
For as In Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
But each in his own turn. Christ, the first fruits, THEN WHEN HE COMES those who belong to him. Then the end will come.....

1cor15:20-23

 

[Gabriel Anton]

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.
For as In Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
But each in his own turn. Christ, the first fruits, THEN WHEN HE COMES those who belong to him. Then the end will come.....

1cor15:20-23

Peace be with you.

The Holy Scriptures also state this:

Matthew 22 BRG Bible (BRG)

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

 

[prodromos]

Those who died under the old covenant went a temporary holding place, to use your words, they did not enter heaven. Same process now.

Not the same process now. Death has been defeated and no longer has any hold on those who are in Christ Jesus. Before Christ's death and resurrection, all who died went to Hades.

I have NOT said the dead in Christ can have no consciousness

I don't recall suggesting that you had.

but they are not yet in heaven.

They are in Paradise, just as Jesus said to the thief crucified on His right.

That applies to Mary, the same as everyone else

See above.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Peace be with you.

The Holy Scriptures also state this:

Matthew 22 BRG Bible (BRG)

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Absolutely, all are alive from Gods point of view, even when they are asleep in Christ.
Note Christ referred to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God considered them alive but they had NOT entered Heaven.
Thank you for endorsing my belief on this subject

 

[stuart lawrence]

Not the same process now. Death has been defeated and no longer has any hold on those who are in Christ Jesus. Before Christ's death and resurrection, all who died went to Hades.

I don't recall suggesting that you had.

They are in Paradise, just as Jesus said to the thief crucified on His right.

See above.

Yep, they are I paradise, but paradise is NOT Heaven to dwell with God

 

[Gabriel Anton]

So you cannot answer the question can you. Let me help you.

If Christ will raise believers up on the last day, they cannot already be in heaven can they.

That is the point being made.
If you require further proof, I can give you much more. Scripture is repeatedly very clear on This subject

Peace be with you.

The Holy Scriptures also state this:

Luke 16 BRG Bible (BRG)

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

God bless you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Peace be with you.

The Holy Scriptures also state this:

Luke 16 BRG Bible (BRG)

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

God bless you.

Great scripture.

They were in the place of the righteous dead, not heaven

 

[prodromos]

Yep, they are I paradise, but paradise is NOT Heaven to dwell with God

And yet they remain in Christ's body.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Yep, they are I paradise, but paradise is NOT Heaven to dwell with God

Peace be with you.

Revelation 4 BRG Bible (BRG)
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 6 BRG Bible (BRG)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

God bless you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Not the same process now. Death has been defeated and no longer has any hold on those who are in Christ Jesus. Before Christ's death and resurrection, all who died went to Hades.

I don't recall suggesting that you had.

They are in Paradise, just as Jesus said to the thief crucified on His right.

See above.

Thank you for confirming the dead in Christ are in paradise NOT heaven. Excellant!

Jesus told the thief on the cross.
This day you will be with ne in paradise.

Where did Christ go when he died at Calvary?

He told his disciples he would be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights!

When he rose from the dead, he told Mary not to touch him, for he had NOT YET ascended to his father in heaven.

You have proved me correct
Thank you

 

[stuart lawrence]

Peace be with you.

Revelation 4 BRG Bible (BRG)
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 6 BRG Bible (BRG)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

God bless you.

Yep, the souls were UNDER the altar crying out for vengeance of their shed blood

 

[prodromos]

Thank you for confirming the dead in Christ are in paradise NOT heaven. Excellant!

Jesus told the thief on the cross.
This day you will be with ne in paradise.

Where did Christ go when he died at Calvary?

He told his disciples he would be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights!

When he rose from the dead, he told Mary not to touch him, for he had NOT YET ascended to his father in heaven.

You have proved me correct
Thank you

What has that got to do with praying to Mary and the Saints?

 

[stuart lawrence]

What has that got to do with praying to Mary and the Saints?

You were the one who stated the believers who now die go to paradise.
That simply proves they do not go to Heaven, which includes Mary of course

 

[prodromos]

You were the one who stated the believers who now die go to paradise.
That simply proves they do not go to Heaven, which includes Mary of course

So what does that have to do with praying to Mary and the Saints? Why do I have to ask this twice?

 

[stuart lawrence]

So what does that have to do with praying to Mary and the Saints? Why do I have to ask this twice?

I originally responded to someone who stated Mary was IN HEAVEN interceding for those she received prayers from.
That is FALSE belief according to the bible.

I sincerely hope the catholic church does not teach That as official doctrine.

I dont know of course, for I am not RC

Is That official RC doctrine?

 

[prodromos]

I originally responded to someone who stated Mary was IN HEAVEN interceding for those she received prayers from.
That is FALSE belief according to the bible.

I sincerely hope the catholic church does not teach That as official doctrine.

I dont know of course, for I am not RC

Is That official RC doctrine?

Why are you asking me? I'm not Catholic either.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why are you asking me? I'm not Catholic either.

My apologies, I thought you were.
Hopefully a catholic might respond as to whether such a belief I official doctrine of their church, or just the private views of some

 

[prodromos]

My apologies, I thought you were.
Hopefully a catholic might respond as to whether such a belief I official doctrine of their church, or just the private views of some

BTW, the Scriptures only speak of the general resurrection. God is obviously capable of raising individuals to eternal life if He so wishes.

 

[stuart lawrence]

BTW, the Scriptures only speak of the general resurrection. God is obviously capable of raising individuals to eternal life if He so wishes.

There are TWO resurrections.
The first for a select amount of people. Then, a thousand years later, the general resurrection, on the last day of this present earth ( rev20:4&5)

 

[PROPHECYKID]

The fact is that Mary is in the same place that David is:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Mary is also both dead, buried and not ascended into the heavens. Mary is asleep in Jesus awaiting the resurrection of the dead which is the hope of every Christian.

Paul said that if there was no resurrection of the dead then he would just eat drink and be merry today because after death it would have been all over! If we went to paradise at death then why would Paul make a statement statement such as this. If there was no resurrection of the dead why would there be no hope for the christian? Why would those who would have fallen asleep in Christ be perished if they are actually already alive in Paradise of Heaven?