Praying at school

[keith99]

I disagree. Brainwashing can be considered a subset of education, A mathematical proof isn't brainwashing for unqiue reasons that pertain to the nature of proof. You can't brainwash someone into thinking that 1 + 1 = 2 because you can prove that 1 + 1 = 2.

Really? Try it! This is an Axiom, not provable, just assumed.

All the Geometry you are likely to have learned is in fact Eucledian Geometry. All proveable from the axioms, but long long ago a someone tried to prove that Euclids axioms were the only ones that could work and in fact proved just the opposite.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Have you never had a teacher talk to you concerning a war or politics or the "environment."

Yes. In history, for instance, we reviewed World Wars 1 & 2.

A teacher has never had a passion for Darwin, Sinclair Lewis, or Picasso.

On the contrary, my biology teacher was enamoured by the natural world, and said this was due to the unity inferred by Darwinian evolution.

A teacher has never spoken accolades surrounding the movie CITIZEN KANE....

Citizen Kane? Oh, it's an old movie. What's it got to do with anything?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Really? Try it! This is an Axiom, not provable, just assumed.

On the contrary, the statement '1 + 1 = 2' is true by the (rather complex) definitions of '1', '2', '+', and '='. Alas, such a trivial proof is far too extensive to go into here.

All the Geometry you are likely to have learned is in fact Eucledian Geometry.

I'm a theoretical physicist. Eucledian geometry is so 1890.

All proveable from the axioms, but long long ago a someone tried to prove that Euclids axioms were the only ones that could work and in fact proved just the opposite.

Well that's obvious, since non-Euclidean geometry is demonstratably extant.

 

[TheOutsider]

Anything that is taught at school is a form of "brainwashing" as you call it. It maybe math, science or history; however, each contains elements of subjectivity. The reality is that merely reading a Bible verse does not make one a "Christian." It might just present one with food for thought, and that is what makes for an excellent education and not simply mundane repetitions.

Is it alright with you if we have the wee ones reading from the Koran too? Bhagavad Gita? Dianetics? Principia Discordia? Fair is fair.

As for your insistence on teaching Creationism, it would be easy to teach the full list of empirical evidence for Young Earth Creationism. I'll even give you the whole list:


...



The End.

 

[cantata]

On the contrary, my biology teacher was enamoured by the natural world, and said this was due to the unity inferred by Darwinian evolution.

I think this was LN's point: teachers wax lyrical, express opinions, offer more arguments to support their personal position than to counter it, &c. All this could be considered brainwashing, if you think that a daily prayer session is brainwashing.

 

[WatersMoon110]

We didn't have prayer in school, but there was religious (Christian) education one a week, that our parents had to opt us out of. We were taken to a church that was down the street from the school. I stayed in it from first grade (when it started) to the beginning of second grade when I decided I would rather stay in the class room and read (we weren't allowed to work on school work, because that would be "punishing" the rest of the class by given them less work time).

 

[cantata]

We didn't have prayer in school, but there was religious (Christian) education one a week, that our parents had to opt us out of. We were taken to a church that was down the street from the school. I stayed in it from first grade (when it started) to the beginning of second grade when I decided I would rather stay in the class room and read (we weren't allowed to work on school work, because that would be "punishing" the rest of the class by given them less work time).

Blimey.

We had Religious (Christian) Education at my primary school, too; it was done in a classroom by a teacher with a sing-song voice, who got us to draw little pictures of the parables. I don't remember much about it, except that the material was not presented any differently from what might be presented in a history class. In other words, we were never offered the opportunity to ask questions beyond the Christian paradigm, nor was it ever suggested that not everyone believed every word of it.

Still, no ill-effects here. It mostly washed over me. I liked drawing the pictures.

 

[Skaloop]

My Grade three teacher led the class in The Lord's Prayer every morning. That was my only exposure to prayer of any kind. I had no idea what was going on, I just said it. I didn't even really realize it was religious. I suppose it meant something to the Christian kids in the class, but to a non-religious kid like me, it was a couple of extra minutes respite before teaching began.

 

[TexasSky]

From the ages of 4 to 11 i had to pray and sit through a bible passage at school every single morning without fail. This was a state school and i'm not sure if i was able to opt out, i never really questioned it, but had i opted out i probably would have felt fairly isolated. Looking back at it, it does seem wrong to try and "brainwash" children into christianity, and i know for sure i wouldn't send my children to such a school.

Does this still go on, and if so is it ethical to make children go through this every day?

In public schools - no. Doesn't happen anymore.
Private schools that are owned by churches or various private citizens do so.

Christians now only fight for the right to hold a voluntary membership only bible study or prayer vigil either before or after school, using school property.

 

[cantata]

In public schools - no. Doesn't happen anymore.
Private schools that are owned by churches or various private citizens do so.

It still happens in state schools in Britain, which, you'll notice, is where stan1980 and I come from.

 

[WatersMoon110]

In public schools - no. Doesn't happen anymore.
Private schools that are owned by churches or various private citizens do so.

As well private schools should be allowed to, so long as they aren't getting any tax payer money!

Christians now only fight for the right to hold a voluntary membership only bible study or prayer vigil either before or after school, using school property.

Since that happened pretty often at my school (praying around the flag poll, at least - I believe that Bible Study was done in the church down the street), I wasn't aware it was an issue. I don't know how I feel about Bible Study being done in a public school after or before hours (is there some reason that this couldn't be done in a church?). How would you feel about NeoPagan coven meetings in a public school before or after hours?

 

[TexasSky]

Is it alright with you if we have the wee ones reading from the Koran too? Bhagavad Gita? Dianetics? Principia Discordia? Fair is fair.

As for your insistence on teaching Creationism, it would be easy to teach the full list of empirical evidence for Young Earth Creationism. I'll even give you the whole list:


...



The End.

Actually -

My son's public school allowed certain students to present the announcements, and those students were allowed to read any quote they wanted. Some students started reading scripture from the bible.

When a student wanted to read from the Qu'ran, the school, knowing that we are a conservative Christian area, worried that they would get negative feedback, but they allowed the student to read his quote.

Instead of negative feedback, the school received massive support from the school's Christian community. The over all feel was that it opened a door of communication between the two religions that had never been opened before, and allowed students of any faith to feel free to discuss their faith openly, and without shame.

 

[TexasSky]

Oh, thank you.

For some reason, even though I knew he was from the UK, I thought he was asking about American schools.

My apologies.

 

[cantata]

Since that happened pretty often at my school (praying around the flag poll, at least - I believe that Bible Study was done in the church down the street), I wasn't aware it was an issue. I don't know how I feel about Bible Study being done in a public school after or before hours (is there some reason that this couldn't be done in a church?). How would you feel about NeoPagan coven meetings in a public school before or after hours?

Many secondary schools in Britain have a student-run Christian Union, and some have similar organisations for other faiths. They usually meet before or after school and in lunch hours, on school property. I can't say I'm bothered by that. It's perfectly reasonable to allow any student groups to form, I think, as long as they are not in the business of causing any kind of trouble. To prevent such groups from forming would be far more worrying, in my opinion.

 

[Ryal Kane]

I remember religious education I think once a week in early primary school. I don't remember much, but I'm pretty sure I never believed it. It was on par with Norse and Greek myths to me.

 

[KarrieTex]

As well private schools should be allowed to, so long as they aren't getting any tax payer money!
Since that happened pretty often at my school (praying around the flag poll, at least - I believe that Bible Study was done in the church down the street), I wasn't aware it was an issue. I don't know how I feel about Bible Study being done in a public school after or before hours (is there some reason that this couldn't be done in a church?). How would you feel about NeoPagan coven meetings in a public school before or after hours?

Why would you have an issue when beginning churches use schools during off hours for their services?

If it is before or after school there should be no issue. Especially if you think about the fact that their parents are also paying taxes to use those school buildings and to keep them open.

 

[cantata]

KarrieTex, your picture of an orange bovine head really reminds me of a diagram of the female reproductive system. I always do a double-take

/offtopic

 

[KarrieTex]

Sorry....It's the emblem for my favorite College Football Team.

University of Texas Longhorns. HOOK EM!

 

[cantata]

Sorry....It's the emblem for my favorite College Football Team.

University of Texas Longhorns. HOOK EM!

Ah, I thought it might be a sports team

I wonder if they've noticed...

 

[KarrieTex]

Ah, I thought it might be a sports team

I wonder if they've noticed...

Not UT.

Longhorn is important to Texas so I doubt very much that it has even crossed their minds or the minds of their major rivals.