Praying at school

[KarrieTex]

Substitute coven or satanistic group with Christianity and that sentence makes about the same amount of sense to me... especially considering the vast amount of misunderstanding and negativity that is felt toward other religions by many adherants. I haven't been in high school in awhile, but I remember morning prayer groups around the flag, and I don't remember any big deal made out of it..

I disagree with that assement. There are too many kids that are in some degree of rebellion and some do act out and go towards the hollywood version and the trendiness of beliefs that center on what they construe as witchcraft and satanism.

Christianity is not the same to a child as satanism or a coven.

 

[cantata]

I disagree with that assement. There are too many kids that are in some degree of rebellion and some do act out and go towards the hollywood version and the trendiness of beliefs that center on what they construe as witchcraft and satanism.

Christianity is not the same to a child as satanism or a coven.

But why should they not be allowed to have meetings with others who hold the same beliefs/interests? One might think that listening to certain kinds of music is an act of teenage rebellion, but I don't see that as a reason to prevent students from forming groups of those who enjoy that music.

The fact that someone holds a belief (or purports to hold it) because their peers do, or because they perceive it as fashionable, should make no difference to their right to mix with those who hold or purport to hold similar beliefs.

 

[KarrieTex]

Save for the fact I never said I would stop it. I said I would have a problem with it.

That is one thing I see constantly on here you (generalization) assume incorrectly. When a person says I have a problem with it does not mean that I would try and stop it by whatever means.

 

[cantata]

Save for the fact I never said I would stop it. I said I would have a problem with it.

That is one thing I see constantly on here you (generalization) assume incorrectly. When a person says I have a problem with it does not mean that I would try and stop it by whatever means.

Well, fair enough - but presumably you'd be happier if it didn't happen, since you have a problem with it?

 

[PsychMJC]

I disagree with that assement. There are too many kids that are in some degree of rebellion and some do act out and go towards the hollywood version and the trendiness of beliefs that center on what they construe as witchcraft and satanism.

Christianity is not the same to a child as satanism or a coven.

Well of course you disagree! In your eyes I am equating something you do NOT agree with and something you DO agree with.. clearly you will not find them the same. Perhaps YOUR version of Christianity isn't the same, but what have you to say for those "Christian" churches that tell young children that if their brothers/sisters/parents/friends aren't saved they are going to burn in hell forever? I find THAT just as disturbing and abusive as any activities a coven may get up to on school grounds.

 

[KarrieTex]

Well, fair enough - but presumably you'd be happier if it didn't happen, since you have a problem with it?

Nope wrong again.

If precautions were taken to make sure something wasn't going to be amiss, I may not still be 100% gun ho for it but I would be a bit more comfortable knowing that there was precautions being taken.

AGAIN, you (generalization) assume another would be happy because of this and that.

I am not happy with say pro-soccer being played at my university's stadium because it causes traffice. That doesn't mean I would be happier if it stopped, which would cause issues with others. It just means I don't like it just like I don't like beets.

 

[KarrieTex]

Well of course you disagree! In your eyes I am equating something you do NOT agree with and something you DO agree with.. clearly you will not find them the same. Perhaps YOUR version of Christianity isn't the same, but what have you to say for those "Christian" churches that tell young children that if their brothers/sisters/parents/friends aren't saved they are going to burn in hell forever? I find THAT just as disturbing and abusive as any activities a coven may get up to on school grounds.

WRONG. I already stated the issue with it. Beyond that I don't have an issue with it. I don't agree with those who follow Hinduism or Taoism or Agnostic and on and on and on...I have absolutely no issue with them because they are not used as the others are.

Here's a kicker...I would have an issue with Scienctology. Far from witchcraft/covens or satanism.

As for you last statement, that is basically the bulk of Christianity and is based on the Bible. It is also different since it is a Church building and not a school. If you go down that path then let's have an issue with Mormons, JW, UCC, and so forth.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I disagree with that assement. There are too many kids that are in some degree of rebellion and some do act out and go towards the hollywood version and the trendiness of beliefs that center on what they construe as witchcraft and satanism.

So?

Christianity is not the same to a child as satanism or a coven.

To a child brought up in a pro-Christian, anti-Satanist environment, sure. But to a scepticle child, they would seem to be simply different religions (which, of course, they are).

 

[cantata]

I am not happy with say pro-soccer being played at my university's stadium because it causes traffice. That doesn't mean I would be happier if it stopped, which would cause issues with others. It just means I don't like it just like I don't like beets.

The reasons you offered were not the sort of reasons one offers for disliking a foodstuff. They were not reasons of preference. It was therefore not unreasonable, I don't think, to assume some prescriptive element to your statement that you would 'have a problem' with it.

I'd also like to know what sort of 'precautions' you'd suggest.

 

[KarrieTex]

So?


To a child brought up in a pro-Christian, anti-Satanist environment, sure. But to a scepticle child, they would seem to be simply different religions (which, of course, they are).

Then you haven't spent time around a child have you that is just learning about these things?

Suffice it to say I disagree especially since I have been around children enough in my ripe old age to know that these 2 beliefs are hollywoodized enough with the wrong info that it can be used in such a negative manner to cause more issues.

 

[KarrieTex]

The reasons you offered were not the sort of reasons one offers for disliking a foodstuff. They were not reasons of preference. It was therefore not unreasonable, I don't think, to assume some prescriptive element to your statement that you would 'have a problem' with it.

I'd also like to know what sort of 'precautions' you'd suggest.

You are not getting the point.

Basically, because of the freedom of religion here in this country, I don't have an issue with it save for those 2 with children (not adults). Just because I am not happy about it doesn't mean I am going to throw a fit about it.

If I can meet on a school campus (elementary and secondary) then so can the Hindu family down the street.

 

[PsychMJC]

WRONG. I already stated the issue with it. Beyond that I don't have an issue with it. I don't agree with those who follow Hinduism or Taoism or Agnostic and on and on and on...I have absolutely no issue with them because they are not used as the others are.

Here's a kicker...I would have an issue with Scienctology. Far from witchcraft/covens or satanism.

As for you last statement, that is basically the bulk of Christianity and is based on the Bible. It is also different since it is a Church building and not a school. If you go down that path then let's have an issue with Mormons, JW, UCC, and so forth.

WRONG. You did, but it was of absolutely no consequence. What kind of behavior do you think a Coven is going to get up to on school grounds that needs to regulated? Fires or drinking blood? I assume (I know, I know) these regulations would be a general set of rules for ALL groups... isn't that pretty much the way it is anyway?

Used as the others are? As a way to feel accepted? As a spirtitual belief structure? As a means of control? You mean, in all the ways EVER religion is used for..

I agree.. Scientology scares me..
The difference is, they all scare me in some way.

What is this church building nonsense? I never said anything like that.. I am strictly speaking about school sponsored clubs revolving around a belief that, no matter how many times you disagree, WILL express intolerance to certain OTHER peers in the same school.

 

[cantata]

You are not getting the point.

Basically, because of the freedom of religion here in this country, I don't have an issue with it save for those 2 with children (not adults). Just because I am not happy about it doesn't mean I am going to throw a fit about it.

I am not suggesting that you would 'throw a fit about it'. I am just trying to elucidate your reasons for having a problem with Satanist meetings or covens being held by students in schools.

I know this much: that you think that a lot of young people affiliate themselves with these groups because they feel they are trendy or have a misconception about them because of media portrayal. But what I want to know is, why do these facts lead to you having a problem with them meeting on school property? What is it about them that gives you cause for concern?

If I can meet on a school campus (elementary and secondary) then so can the Hindu family down the street.

I am not suggesting either that you don't think this. This is entirely beside the point, seeing as we're not talking about Hinduism, but about two particular religions whose meetings on school property you claimed to have a problem with.

 

[KarrieTex]

All I am going to say without going into my personal reasons, is those are 3 (including Tom Cruise's cult) that I have issues with. BUT I also said that if they are precautions then ok. Which I have also posted about.

Let me add that they should be precautions taken with a lot of the different faiths..including Christianity.

Since this is starting to go around and around in a circle, I am going to bow out of this and get back to work and lunch. I have stated my thoughts on it and there is no need in my eyes to continue to beat it to death.

 

[KarrieTex]

LOL...ok enough of the assumptions there.

Ya'll enjoy the conversation.

 

[PsychMJC]

Then you haven't spent time around a child have you that is just learning about these things?

Suffice it to say I disagree especially since I have been around children enough in my ripe old age to know that these 2 beliefs are hollywoodized enough with the wrong info that it can be used in such a negative manner to cause more issues.

I have been around enough children in my ripe, not-quite-as-old age to know that Christianity, Atheism, Satanism, and all the others can be used in such an negative manner to cause more issues. The difference is, you think YOUR belief is different. That can be said about adherents to EVERY religion, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Then you haven't spent time around a child have you that is just learning about these things?

I made the distinction between the 'Christianised' child and the sceptical child. The former has been educated with a bias to Christianity and against Satanism, whilst the latter hasn't.

Suffice it to say I disagree especially since I have been around children enough in my ripe old age to know that these 2 beliefs are hollywoodized enough with the wrong info that it can be used in such a negative manner to cause more issues.

Such as?

 

[cantata]

scepticle

Sceptical

/pedant

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Sceptical

/pedant

Hush

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste all,

i grew up in North Africa and had to recite some sort of Catholic prayer and Muslim prayer every morning. the Catholic one was in Latin but was eventually changed to English and the Muslim one was in Arabic.

i have no particular problem with prayer in schools provided that my religious paradigm gets equal treatment.

the problem therein is that whilst a Christians prayer may be quite short there really are no short Buddhist prayers... not that we pray but it is a useful enough term to use for the purposes of this conversation. the shortest formal "prayer" that i'm aware of would take about 30 mins to recite and then the requisit 20 mins of meditive silence.

given all the religious traditions that can be represented it would be amazing if students did anything else but engage in prayer and meditation all day but i don't have a particular issue with that in and of itself.

metta,

~v