Praying at school

[WatersMoon110]

Why would you have an issue when beginning churches use schools during off hours for their services?

If it is before or after school there should be no issue. Especially if you think about the fact that their parents are also paying taxes to use those school buildings and to keep them open.

Well, I don't really mind. I've never really thought about it. But it seems like, if a group has a church, that would be the best place to hold Bible Study - not a public school. I guess, if they don't have a church, a public school is just as good as any other place to hold such a class.

You didn't answer the second question: Would you have a problem with a different religious group meeting in a public school after hours?

 

[KarrieTex]

Well, I don't really mind. I've never really thought about it. But it seems like, if a group has a church, that would be the best place to hold Bible Study - not a public school. I guess, if they don't have a church, a public school is just as good as any other place to hold such a class.

You didn't answer the second question: Would you have a problem with a different religious group meeting in a public school after hours?

And those clubs like FCA that have been around for over 30 years?

I have no issue with it.

 

[WatersMoon110]

And those clubs like FCA that have been around for over 30 years?

I have no issue with it.

No - I mean like a NeoPagan Coven, a Hindu Religious Group, or even a Satanism Youth Group. Would you have an issue with such groups meeting in public schools?

 

[Caitlin.ann]

From the ages of 4 to 11 i had to pray and sit through a bible passage at school every single morning without fail. This was a state school and i'm not sure if i was able to opt out, i never really questioned it, but had i opted out i probably would have felt fairly isolated. Looking back at it, it does seem wrong to try and "brainwash" children into christianity, and i know for sure i wouldn't send my children to such a school.

Does this still go on, and if so is it ethical to make children go through this every day?

A few years ago in 2005 (I believe) the high school I graduated from had to do the pledge of alleigance during the morning announcements and was followed by a moment of slience. Its against the law for the school not to do it, but the students didn't have to participate. I never did. The moment of silence was supposed to be a time of silent prayer as well.

Other than that i remember having to say the pledge every now and then when I Was little but thats about it.

 

[Ringo84]

No. It isn't ethical.

Teachers are employees of the public school system. The public school system is a government entity. Being a government entity, the church institution and the state should be separate. Therefore, it's unconstitutional for a teacher to lead his or her students in class-wide or school-wide prayer.

That doesn't mean that a teacher can have no faith. That doesn't mean that a teacher can't share their religious belief. That doesn't mean that students have to shed their faith at the door of the school or cannot share their religious beliefs. That doesn't mean that religion is a taboo subject.

It means that religion is a private matter that should be left to the individual conscience.

Common sense.
Ringo

 

[sago]

Religion might be a private matter, but the bible certainly isn't.

If you don't teach children about the bible, you are doing them a massive disservice.

None of the last thousand years (basically all of) european culture makes much sense if you don't understand Christianity. This is the blinding fallacy with keeping religion out of schools: if there's no religion in schools how can you teach history, literature, music, drama, and art?

I agree with Daniel Dennet, religious education should be part of school, but fact-based and without judgements.

I should point out that I'm a rationalist and an atheist, by the way. In case you were wondering.

Oh and UK-wise: a daily act of communal worship is part of the requirements for all schools. This is very widely ignored, however, and hasn't been enforced for a long time.

 

[flicka]

Well, I don't really mind. I've never really thought about it. But it seems like, if a group has a church, that would be the best place to hold Bible Study - not a public school. I guess, if they don't have a church, a public school is just as good as any other place to hold such a class.

You didn't answer the second question: Would you have a problem with a different religious group meeting in a public school after hours?

Actually, many new Churchs often start out holding their meeting in public places such as schools and community halls until they find a permanent home or build one themselves. It very common. It's a good use of space that otherwise sits empty 1/2 the time. I beieve any and all groups have equal opportunity to do this.

 

[cantata]

Religion might be a private matter, but the bible certainly isn't.

If you don't teach children about the bible, you are doing them a massive disservice.

None of the last thousand years (basically all of) european culture makes much sense if you don't understand Christianity. This is the blinding fallacy with keeping religion out of schools: if there's no religion in schools how can you teach history, literature, music, drama, and art?

I agree with Daniel Dennet, religious education should be part of school, but fact-based and without judgements.

Yes, this is well-said.

I think religious studies (I prefer this term to 'religious education') is profoundly important; as you say, to understand history - and, indeed, to understand the present - you need to have a grounding in the religious traditions which shaped it. That's not to say that an intimate study of biblical texts is necessary, but the influence of Christian thought on politics, law and culture in Europe has been extremely important and this should be recognised.

Study of religions belongs in schools; religious instruction does not.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Religion might be a private matter, but the bible certainly isn't.

If you don't teach children about the bible, you are doing them a massive disservice.

None of the last thousand years (basically all of) european culture makes much sense if you don't understand Christianity. This is the blinding fallacy with keeping religion out of schools: if there's no religion in schools how can you teach history, literature, music, drama, and art?

I agree with Daniel Dennet, religious education should be part of school, but fact-based and without judgements.

Agreed. Teaching it as a fact, acting like the school is a church... that's not right.

 

[LouTheWicked]

I remember having to say grace during school lunchtime when I was little. One day I quoted Bart Simpson's "Rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub!" and got told off by the old boggart sitting with us.

 

[cantata]

I remember having to say grace during school lunchtime when I was little. One day I quoted Bart Simpson's "Rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub!" and got told off by the old boggart sitting with us.

Haha yeah, we did too, at primary school. It sounded like this:

Forwhatweareabouttoreceivemaythelordmakeustrulythankfulamen *CLATTER SCRAPE MUNCHMUNCHMUNCH*
​

I had no idea what it meant

 

[Eudaimonist]

As long as there are tests, there will ALWAYS be prayer in school

Probably so, and as long as it is not teacher or school official initiated, I don't have a problem with it.

However, I personally always found studying to be much more effective than prayer when it came to getting good grades on tests. Go figure.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

Study of religions belongs in schools; religious instruction does not.

Ideally, that's how it would work in American schools. I think comparative religion classes are a positive thing...

... when taught by someone willing to be impartial. However, that's just the problem with America. I don't trust teachers in public schools to be impartial when it comes to religion. (Imagine SoF or Ceridwen teaching a comparative religion class to children. Could they resist the temptation to promote Christianity?) And so I must regretfully oppose the teaching of religion in public schools in America.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[cantata]

I personally always found studying to be much more effective than prayer when it came to getting good grades on tests. Go figure.

My friend swears blind that before one of her A Level English exams, she asked God for help and a sequence of numbers came into her head, so she revised those pages of the book the exam was about (she was otherwise pretty unprepared), and that precise section came up in the exam.

The power of prayer!

 

[Eudaimonist]

My friend swears blind that before one of her A Level English exams, she asked God for help and a sequence of numbers came into her head, so she revised those pages of the book the exam was about (she was otherwise pretty unprepared), and that precise section came up in the exam.

The power of prayer!

Imagine the power of preparation though.

Based on this story, I have to ask...does God help people cheat on exams? LOL!


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[cantata]

Based on this story, I have to ask...does God help people cheat on exams? LOL!

Well, she believed that God wanted her to come to Oxford University, that it was the path he had set out for her.

Of course, I'm not convinced It's an interesting example, though! I like to hear of experiences like this because it helps me to sympathise with people who do believe in God. I'm sure if that happened to me, it would be difficult to put it down to coincidence, even though that's likely to be the explanation.

 

[KarrieTex]

No - I mean like a NeoPagan Coven, a Hindu Religious Group, or even a Satanism Youth Group. Would you have an issue with such groups meeting in public schools?

The only problem I would have with a coven or satanistic group meeting on school is because they are trendy beliefs that kids who have issues get involved with or will exploit it to fit their issues and aggression.

Rest....I don't care about.

 

[keith99]

Well, she believed that God wanted her to come to Oxford University, that it was the path he had set out for her.

Of course, I'm not convinced It's an interesting example, though! I like to hear of experiences like this because it helps me to sympathise with people who do believe in God. I'm sure if that happened to me, it would be difficult to put it down to coincidence, even though that's likely to be the explanation.

Oh I wouldn't say just coincidence. Actually rather common for someone to not be conscieniously aware of something and then after meditation or relaxation to become aware and ascribe it to God or other outside sources.

Re a different post by a different poster:

How is it 'cheating' if someone recommends you study something? If that is cheating I've had Profs help me cheat in just about every class I've ever taken.

 

[PsychMJC]

The only problem I would have with a coven or satanistic group meeting on school is because they are trendy beliefs that kids who have issues get involved with or will exploit it to fit their issues and aggression.

Rest....I don't care about.

Substitute coven or satanistic group with Christianity and that sentence makes about the same amount of sense to me... especially considering the vast amount of misunderstanding and negativity that is felt toward other religions by many adherants. I haven't been in high school in awhile, but I remember morning prayer groups around the flag, and I don't remember any big deal made out of it..

 

[PsychMJC]

Ideally, that's how it would work in American schools. I think comparative religion classes are a positive thing...

... when taught by someone willing to be impartial. However, that's just the problem with America. I don't trust teachers in public schools to be impartial when it comes to religion. (Imagine SoF or Ceridwen teaching a comparative religion class to children. Could they resist the temptation to promote Christianity?) And so I must regretfully oppose the teaching of religion in public schools in America.

I completely agree. Then again, I think there are a whole host of classes that high school seniors should be required to take.. its unfortunate that there isn't enough time..