Praying and prayer of Jabez Part 2

[DaveKerwin]

I could care less if Bruce wants to make a buck. I got no problem with raising funds. I have a problem with him doing so by deceptive means. I say deceptive because the premise of the whole book is false. This misleads people and it is wrong. So him making millions off the book is wrong.

 

[Outspoken]

/me in awe

me and seebs on the same side...did the sky just fall? LOL

"Would you have a problem with it if they were giving them out for free?"

I have a problem with anything that's a false teaching, which this is for the most part. the book itself is okay, but the way it has been taken by the majority is twisted it into a false teaching. I think Bruce will even say that, and from what I recall, has in interviews. I think Hank did a great service by putting out a book to buffer it called the Prayer of Jesus...sounds like a better example for me to follow anyway

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

People can take any subject and twist it . . .the writer and the reader.

 

[Andrew]

If God provides a means of someone_ making a living, unless it's illigeal or immoral what difference does it make how they do it?_ People are not forced to purchase any of these items._ And if they do, it's because they enjoy it._ What's wrong with that?

Quaffie it's just a double standard thing. Wonder why no one condemns Don Moen, Bob Fitts, Hillsong Australia, Carmen, Sandy Patty, etc for selling all those music CDs and making tons of money? Gosh, why do they even buy those CDs?

They'll gladly pay the world lots of money for anew car, movie tickets, magazines, cable subscription etc but kick up such a fuss when it's money into the kingdom of God.

 

[MizDoulos]

Note:&nbsp&nbspIt behooves every poster to review the forum rules again. Let's not continue to put down other denominations or the thread will be closed and/or warnings issued.

Thank you.


[notroll][/notroll]

 

[Andrew]

Note:__It behooves every poster to review the forum rules again. Let's not continue to put down other denominations or the thread will be closed and/or warnings issued.

The author of Prayer of Jabez is a Christian, belongs to a denom. So is Benny Hinn, the Copelands etc. So if the rules stand why are posters here always allowed to put these people and their beliefs down? eg:

I could care less if Bruce wants to make a buck. I got no problem with raising funds. I have a problem with him doing so by deceptive means. I say deceptive because the premise of the whole book is false. This misleads people and it is wrong. So him making millions off the book is wrong.

IOW he's a con-artist, cheat, false teacher, deceiver, criminal? I hope none of the author's lawyers are here!

 

[MizDoulos]

Originally posted by Andrew
The author of Prayer of Jabez is a Christian, belongs to a denom. So is Benny Hinn, the Copelands etc. So if the rules stand why are posters here always allowed to put these people and their beliefs down? eg:

I am extending grace here to all by posting a warning message for everyone to rethink their comments. Official warnings could be given, but many times only reminders are posted to give everyone a chance to cool off and respect others' viewpoints.

Andrew, you are bordering on breaking Rule 7. I suggest you re-read the rules again or you will be issued a warning the next time. Use your PM to express your objections. Since you've been here for awhile, you should know better.

[nodis][/nodis]

 

[DaveKerwin]

If anyone thinks I am out of line, send me a message. I don't understand general posts that "can" apply to everyone.

I still think it is a fasle teaching. I believe God would want us to point out false teachings and have nothing to do with them. So I will do so.

 

[Outspoken]

"People can take any subject and twist it . . .the writer and the reader.
"

I agree, though I think here its a little of both. This is why I urge everyone to read BOTH the prayer of Jabez and the prayer of jesus. Its an excellent balance.

 

[MizDoulos]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
If anyone thinks I am out of line, send me a message. I don't understand general posts that "can" apply to everyone.

Dave, warning messages are reminders for everyone to heed, not just for certain individuals. Moreover, if it doesn't apply to you, then you need not worry about it.

Again, if you or anyone else has any other comment concerning a warning message, do use your Private Message option.

Thank you.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"1.What is the definition of praying, or pray?"

Talking to God, not always verb, nor always inner dialouge.

"2.In the book of James what should the sick do?"

Pray and get anointed.


"3.If God answered Paul on after the 3rd time he prayed for the thorn,then what happened to the first two prayers that he requested for the same thing?"

God probably said wait or gave him the same answer.

"4. What does the phrase "praying without ceasing" mean?"

always be in fellowship with God.


"5. When the disciples were unable to cast out the demon of the little boy, what did Jesus say to them?"

I believe it was have more faith, though this doesn't prove your point at all, it shows one instance where faith was needed, that is not an all encompasing example anymore then saying Christ was an angry man all the time and citing the example in the temple.


"6. If God only changes you, then why did Elijah pray earnestly for it to stop raining? "

If you'll note he was in the will of God, thus God was changing him, to follow his will by praying for the correct things.

God says no sometimes. to wealth, healing, any many other requests that are not in his will. Your question shouldn't be why didn't he say yes, it should be what SHOULD I be asking for instead of what he said no to.

I hear you on how you percieve prayer, rolling your relationship and asking for things like wisdom needs and wants all in the word prayer. But for me its worship, fellowship(with God), praying (asking).So this misunderstanding could be the root of the disagreement. To me praying is something totally seperate and by itself, now when I pray, I often change to just spending time in Gods presence, and then worshipping, usually doing all three.

But what I am talking about it just asking for things, in the form of praying to God.

Its biblical that we are to ask and keep on asking according to Jesus words. The prophets often times spent days praying for just one thing, with fasting and confession of there sins and the sins of the people. Daniel prayed for knowledge on the 70 weeks prophecy, he spent 3 days fasting, and praying for that one thing. An angel came down and said that God had sent him out at the very outset of Daniels prayer, but satan withstood him for the 3 days and wasn't able to get the message to him any sooner. This is just one factor that can stop prayer, another according to scripture is if we don't ask in faith, meaning we really don't believe that God will or sometimes dare I say believe that God is capable of doing it.

 

[Jephunneh]

Does the book "The Prayer of Jabez " promises rewards from God that God doesn't promise in the Bible?

 

[Outspoken]

"But what I am talking about it just asking for things, in the form of praying to God."

okay, I disagree i don't think prayer is just ment for asking for things from God. It is a intimate communication that, to me, transends words or thoughts. Its my way of being with God and having him change me. For that's what the result of prayer is, not the world changing to suit me, but me changing to better impact the world.

 

[Andrew]

Last I checked, most scriptures on prayer are about asking for things, from peace for the nations, to wisdom and revelation, to healing to prosperity, to whatsoever ye desire and whosoever asks.

Its mainly Ask Seek and Knock = A S K.

Mt 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Mt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mt 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Mt 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

Mt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Mt 14:7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.

Mt 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mr 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Lu 11:9 And I say unto you, ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Lu 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

Lu 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

Lu 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

any scriputures on prayer as communing with God, letting him change us etc?

 

[Blindfaith]

I mean this in the most respectful way Andrew, sometimes the answer God gives us isn't the answer that we expect or want.  Sometimes the death of a believer, for instance, does more, within the plan of God, than if that believer (or unbeliever if that's the case) had lived.

We don't always get what we expect.  God may have a different plan.  That's the difference between God and us.  He's God, and we are not.

 

 

[Outspoken]

Amen blindfaith. You've got it exactly.

 

[Andrew]

I mean this in the most respectful way Andrew, sometimes the answer God gives us isn't the answer that we expect or want.

no offence taken but i think you missed the point of my last post. I was merely pointing out that if you check up scriptures on prayer, you will that it has to do with asking and asking in faith. so there's nothing wrong with asking. in fact, Jesus often chided his disciples for not asking, and asking in faith. Look at the scriptures i posted above and you'll get the idea.

as to your quote, yes, sometimes the answer we get is not what we expected becos God gives us something even better! based on this scriptural principle -- Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

When we ask for life God does not give death as something better. That simply contradicts scripture and God's nature. Jesus came to give life abundant. Death is God's enemy. The devil comes to steal kill and destroy. So how can we say God gives death?

 

[Outspoken]

"When we ask for life God does not give death as something better. "

Yes, sometimes he does. I know this for a fact.

"That simply contradicts scripture and God's nature"

No, it does not. What is better then to be called home to be with God. I'd rather be there then on earth any day..read Phil chapter 1. paul agrees with me.

"So how can we say God gives death?"

He gives it to someone who would be in a life of pain, or someone who needs to go home.

 

[Blindfaith]

Please bear with me Andrew, and be kind in any kind of response that you give me.  This is a very sensitive and sore subject for me, and the hurt is still very deep.  Thanks in advance

The death of a believer  vs  Death being God's enemy:

If you have read in the prayer forum about our friend Kraig (who is the most unbelievable Christian man I've ever met btw), obviously death took him in a not too nice of way.  So many people prayed for him to be healed, but that wasn't God's plan.  We can't understand it fully right now, but that's where our faith comes in.  Faith in knowing that God has done what needs to be done, to fulfill His plan.  

But, I've had a lot of time to reflect on this.  Why would God take a godly Christian man away from his wife and three children?  How could He do this?  Only God truly knows, and I pray that all will be shown to me in this lifetime.  If not now, then I know when I'm in Heaven.  

Believe me, Andrew, this man had more faith than anyone I've ever met in my entire life, including all I've met in our church.  Jesus was/is this man's life, and his wife's life as well.  For some reason that I cannot fathom right now, he is better served on this Earth dead, than alive.  He did mightly works on this work while he was alive, but I'm already starting to see the fruit of his death here.  It's truly amazing.  I don't like it ~ I'd rather be here with him, but that's not the case.  We have many unsaved friends, and Kraig's living testimony is saying more to these poor souls than I could ever manage right now verbally.

God has a purpose, even in death, and it's not our right to question Him.  He's God, and we are not.  He's sovereign, and we are not.  He is Holy, and we are not.

I pray, Andrew, that this does not come across as offensive, because it most certainly is not suppose to be   Just what I'm seeing/experiencing right now......

God is good....all the time.  Praise the Lord!  

 

[Andrew]

blindfaith, I'm not offended in anyway.

I am familiar with death and sickness too. I've been to hospitals then funerals, I have heard widows and widowers cry. My mum had cancer and had 3/4s of her stomach removed. My wife suffers from migraine/asthma etc. so i know how it feels.

but if there's one thing i know beyond a shadow of doubt, it is this: God is not behind all this pain. you yourself have asked:

Why would God take a godly Christian man away from his wife and three children?Ê How could He do this?

and in your spirit and from the scriptures you already know the answer -- that he is not responsible for all this chaos and suffering. How many times must a Christian be reminded: Christ came to give life abundant, not suffering and death. He didnt come to impart cancer and remove a wife from her husband, or remove a mother from her children. No he raised the dead son and gave him back to his mother.

How many times are we to be reminded that it is the devil who comes to steal kill and destroy, not God. We must stop 'blaming' God and giving the 'warn-out' explanation that there is some higher purpose that no one ever seems to know. No God has made it plain and clear in his Word.

you said it yourself again:

For some reason that I cannot fathom right now, he is better served on this Earth dead, than alive.Ê He did mightly works on this work while he was alive,

How can a Christian impact the world for Christ if he is dead? you dont need preachers in heaven. you dont need to minister to the sick in heaven. you dont need to build churches in heaven. you are needed here on earth to run the race and finish it!

but I'm already starting to see the fruit of his death here.

Yes, God can take the lemons that the devil throws at us and turn it into lemonade for us. He can work all bad things out for our good. But it is quite another thing (a sin actually) to say that God threw the lemons at us for some higher purpose that no one ever seems to know.

I know that there are emotions involved. but dont let that cloud your judgement. Let the scriptures plainly speak for themselves. Death is God's enemy. And there are no 2 deaths, one that's God's friend and one that's God's enemy. You'll never find that in the scripture.

Yes you may not comprehend your friend's death fully, but at least know that God wasnt behind it, for that is plainly stated in the scriptures.

Finally, do not confuse faithfulness with faith. A Christian can be serving in church faithfully for 50 years and yet not have faith for certain areas of his life. It has nothing to do with them not being loyal or loving to God. It has to do with knowledge of the Word and its application. God said that his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. That is obvious enough becos there are good pastors who remain sick or poor, and there are good pastors who are healthy and doing well. Both are good, but one prob knows more abt walking in faith for divine health and prosperity. I hope you are getting the jist of it.