prayer request

[countrymousenc]

My husband has known for a while that I am open to the possibility of converting to Orthodoxy (although I have been wishy-washy, admittedly). Last night I mentioned, in conversation, that in the Orthodox Christians must confess to their priests at certain intervals to be able to receive the Eucharist. He was shocked that I would be willing to "let a man come between me and Christ." (We were both reared as Baptists, can you tell?) He knows how distressed I have been over the lack of tradition in any of our local churches, and wants me to be at peace, but doesn't want us to permanently end up going to different churches. I am in turmoil, because I am having a great deal of difficulty discerning that there is any other church in this area that can still be, for me, an adequate provision, and also acceptable to him. He said last night that he would go without the Eucharist before he would ever confess to a priest. I don't want to prevent him from participating in the Lord's Supper.

I feel almost exiled. Please be praying for both of us.

 

[St. Tikon]

My husband has known for a while that I am open to the possibility of converting to Orthodoxy (although I have been wishy-washy, admittedly). Last night I mentioned, in conversation, that in the Orthodox Christians must confess to their priests at certain intervals to be able to receive the Eucharist. He was shocked that I would be willing to "let a man come between me and Christ." (We were both reared as Baptists, can you tell?) He knows how distressed I have been over the lack of tradition in any of our local churches, and wants me to be at peace, but doesn't want us to permanently end up going to different churches. I am in turmoil, because I am having a great deal of difficulty discerning that there is any other church in this area that can still be, for me, an adequate provision, and also acceptable to him. He said last night that he would go without the Eucharist before he would ever confess to a priest. I don't want to prevent him from participating in the Lord's Supper.

I feel almost exiled. Please be praying for both of us.

If I could be of some help in this matter, please have him send me an email, I will try to explain about confession, and so forth. Being that my background was Protestant, I could maybe help him understand.

 

[Oblio]

Prayers ....

FWIW - We confess to Christ, our father/confessor stands with us before Him during Confession.

 

[countrymousenc]

Prayers ....

FWIW - We confess to Christ, our father/confessor stands with us before Him during Confession.

Yes, Oblio, that is how I see it, too, and that is basically the way I tied to answer hubby's objections. I asked him whether he had ever asked anyone else to pray for him; of course, he has.

He simply thinks it is wrong for a church to require such a thing as a condition of receiving the Lord's Supper, so, he'd rather go without.

I can see a whole string of freakouts coming, what with icons, etc.

Is it wrong of me to be so dissatisfied with where I am if the thought of change distresses him this much? I think I know the official Orthodox answer to that, but I seriously wonder if I'm sinning by being dissatisfied with what God has provided for me until now, and causing him distress, too.

~~~~
Tikon, thanks, and I sent you an email.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

Hey Mouse,

James 5
16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In the early Church, EVERYONE confessed in front of the whole church. When this became impractical, they began to confess in front of just the priest.

Maybe your husband would feel better if he knew there was biblical backing? (And psstt... as an aside...that word, "healed" - comes from "soterios" - which is the same word used in speaking of salvation.... just food for thought....)

Praying for you!

 

[Suzannah]

Countrymouse,
I'm so sorry you're so upset...I am praying for you....
It will be allright....
Really it will.

 

[Momzilla]

to you, countrymouse.

I understand the fix you're in. My husband is very freaked out about my investigation of Orthodoxy. I don't have any real advice to give, but I will include you in my prayers.

 

[countrymousenc]

Thanks, Momzilla, and I will include you in mine.

Suzannah and anonykat, thank you both.

 

[Matrona]

Hi countrymouse,

Try not to worry too much, we'll all be praying for you. I'll get a few of my friends to pray, too. It seems like every time I ask one of my friends in particular to pray for someone, that person gets better almost immediately. So I will be SURE to put him on the case. I think you mentioned in another thread that your given name is Dianne, so that is the name I will give him.

 

[countrymousenc]

Thank you, Matrona, and yes, my name is Dianne. It's comforting to have so many faithful people praying about this - helps me to have confidence that it will all work out, somehow.

 

[MariaRegina]

My husband has known for a while that I am open to the possibility of converting to Orthodoxy (although I have been wishy-washy, admittedly). Last night I mentioned, in conversation, that in the Orthodox Christians must confess to their priests at certain intervals to be able to receive the Eucharist. He was shocked that I would be willing to "let a man come between me and Christ." (We were both reared as Baptists, can you tell?) He knows how distressed I have been over the lack of tradition in any of our local churches, and wants me to be at peace, but doesn't want us to permanently end up going to different churches. I am in turmoil, because I am having a great deal of difficulty discerning that there is any other church in this area that can still be, for me, an adequate provision, and also acceptable to him. He said last night that he would go without the Eucharist before he would ever confess to a priest. I don't want to prevent him from participating in the Lord's Supper.

I feel almost exiled. Please be praying for both of us.

Dear Countrymouse (Diane?):

Forgive my memory.

Whenever I visited Baptist churches about 20-30 years ago with my sister and mother (who were Baptists), they had altar calls. One thing that really stood out -- these people came forward and started confessing all their sins as they knelt before the pastor. These people were crying and publicly confessing their sins - in a manner that could be heard by others -- public confession. Afterwards, the Baptist minister would proclaim - Christ has forgiven you by His shed Blood.

Have you ever experienced this?

Isn't this a form of confession -- although not sacramental? If a person was truly sorry, I'm sure that our Lord forgives.

Hope this helps,

Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Countrymouse:

Of course, I will be praying for you and your husband.

My husband also had issues regarding Holy Confession. He converted from Presbyterianism. He believed that God would give him the grace to understand the Holy Sacraments, and this happened. When he read The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy Ware), it just made sense.

Do a computer search on Confession. It's not an uncommon human experience. The Inca Indians had a form of confession which may have originated with the visitation of Eric the Red (a Swedish Christian) who was said to have visited South America around a thousand years ago -- long before the Protestant Church was founded.

I did a paper on the Inca religion and it had striking parallels with the Ancient Christian Church, parallels which can only be explained by Eric's visit. Unfortunately, without the proper missionary follow-up, the people fell into serious errors, including human sacrifice.

In Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[countrymousenc]

Yes, Elizabeth, I'd say that is a form of confession. My husband's childhood church, and mine, were Southern Baptist ones of the more "progressive" kind, but I did see that kind of thing happen in my grandparent's country churches from time to time. I also have seen something similar perhaps 2 or 3 times in Methodist churches. Yes, surely God forgives all those who are truly sorry for their sins. I don't believe God blames us for things we don't know to do or can't do because of circumstances.

Hubby and I talked about it again for a little while yesterday evening. While he still doesn't agree with closed communion or having to confess with a priest, he wasn't as hostile as the previous evening. I explained that he would be welcome to attend without having to convert (if I do decide to convert) and about the bread that is shared with non-communicants (blessed bread?), something no other church with closed communion offers. (That is such a wonderful expression of love on the part of the Orthodox!)

I have another question - I seem to have heard or read that Orthodox Christians are restricted from praying with other Christians. If so, what exactly does that mean?

May God bless you,
Dianne

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, Elizabeth, I'd say that is a form of confession. My husband's childhood church, and mine, were Southern Baptist ones of the more "progressive" kind, but I did see that kind of thing happen in my grandparent's country churches from time to time. I also have seen something similar perhaps 2 or 3 times in Methodist churches. Yes, surely God forgives all those who are truly sorry for their sins. I don't believe God blames us for things we don't know to do or can't do because of circumstances.

Hubby and I talked about it again for a little while yesterday evening. While he still doesn't agree with closed communion or having to confess with a priest, he wasn't as hostile as the previous evening. I explained that he would be welcome to attend without having to convert (if I do decide to convert) and about the bread that is shared with non-communicants (blessed bread?), something no other church with closed communion offers. (That is such a wonderful expression of love on the part of the Orthodox!)

I have another question - I seem to have heard or read that Orthodox Christians are restricted from praying with other Christians. If so, what exactly does that mean?

May God bless you,
Dianne

Dear Dianne:

Thanks for correcting me on your name.

Orthodox Christians are encouraged to pray for everyone while they live and have breath.

The standard form is to use the Jesus Prayer and to insert the name of a person:

so if I pray for the Bishop of Rome:

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on John Paul, healing his infirmities, and save him."

If I pray for Saddam Hussein:

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on Saddam, and save him."

The only time that Orthodox Christians only pray for Orthodox Christians is during the Liturgy at the time when the priest takes pieces from the phosphera (sp.) mentioning a living or deceased Orthodox Christian by name and then places those pieces of blessed bread into the paten which will become the Body of Christ, and then into the chalice containing the wine which will become the Blood of Christ.

We are taught that those people who are commemorated in Holy Communion have their sins washed by the Body and Blood of Christ during the Communion of the Divine Liturgy. This is why they must be in full communion with the Church. Mr. Constantine Zalalas explains this so much better than I can. I will post his website so you can order his tapes. He's a marvelous speaker.

Hopefully our resident Deacon here can explain this better?

Lovingly in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[countrymousenc]

Thanks Elizabeth, and those were all things I wanted to know, too. I was asking about praying with other Christians, though, as in perhaps attending a prayer service held at a non-Orthodox church.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Dianne:

Generally speaking, ecumenical prayer services are discouraged, as non-Orthodox statements may be made deliberately or indeliberately.

There was a recent dedication ceremony of a public building here in Los Angeles in which different faiths were represented. Sadly only the Baptist minister and the Orthodox Priest mentioned that Jesus Christ is God. "In the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord God and Savior ...." The other denominations (along with the Catholics) just prayed to God to avoid offending the feminists or non-Christians present. These other Christian faiths didn't even mention "God the Father" or the Trinity. They used "Heavenly Spirit" which is about as Orthodox as they got.

BTW: I also visited (before my conversion to Orthodoxy) an Assembly of God and FourSquare church which also had altar calls with confession of sins. The AoG churches would ask people to come up for deliverance -- and these folks would confess all kinds of sins and bad habits from which they wanted deliverance.

Lovingly yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[St. Tikon]

Dear Dianne:

Thanks for correcting me on your name.

Orthodox Christians are encouraged to pray for everyone while they live and have breath.

The standard form is to use the Jesus Prayer and to insert the name of a person:

so if I pray for the Bishop of Rome:

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on John Paul, healing his infirmities, and save him."

If I pray for Saddam Hussein:

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on Saddam, and save him."

The only time that Orthodox Christians only pray for Orthodox Christians is during the Liturgy at the time when the priest takes pieces from the phosphera (sp.) mentioning a living or deceased Orthodox Christian by name and then places those pieces of blessed bread into the paten which will become the Body of Christ, and then into the chalice containing the wine which will become the Blood of Christ.

We are taught that those people who are commemorated in Holy Communion have their sins washed by the Body and Blood of Christ during the Communion of the Divine Liturgy. This is why they must be in full communion with the Church. Mr. Constantine Zalalas explains this so much better than I can. I will post his website so you can order his tapes. He's a marvelous speaker.

Hopefully our resident Deacon here can explain this better?

Lovingly in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

You can of course pray for anyone, especially silently, but during Divine Liturgy, only those who are Orthodox, or died as an Orthodox Christian can be commemorated by the priest or deacon.

That sometimes bothers me, as I have a Grandmother who was NOT Orthodox, but, I just go on, and get over it. God is merciful, and I pray in my personal prayers for her soul.

 

[Matrona]

Catechumens are also remembered during the Litany of Fervent Supplication--my name was added to the list after I became a catechumen.

I don't know if this practice is common, but in my church, on a Saturday of Souls, we pray for both Orthodox and non-Orthodox who have departed this life.

 

[MariaRegina]

http://www.christianforums.com/t88865&page=3

The above is an older thread which has questions about Holy Confession with a new addition from the hand of Father Christopher who is in charge of the radio program www.receive.org. Check the thread: Orthodox Calendar of Events also.

 

[Eusebios]

Dianne,
Please rest assured that we are praying for you. I will add your name to the list at our parish.
I have seen lots of situations similar to yours, which have, for the most part, worked out quite well. As long as your husband remains open, there is hope. You are indeed walking a fine line. Pray and trust the Holy Spirit to lead you, and your husband into all truth.
On the subject of "ecumenical" prayer, the others have offered the most Orthodox advice available. I went to only one such event after converting to Orthodoxy, and was so put off by it, that I never attended another one.
His unworty servant,
Eusebios (in the world Donald)