Praise to the Man!

[happyinhisgrace]

That logic cannot apply. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. Well, if I keep two that is plural. Where does it say specifically that we must keep all of them to love Him?

If you ask something of God specifically, will He give you a stone? Or will He give you bread by answering you on that specific? Have you ever prayed specifically for someone? Have you ever lost something and prayed to find that specific lost thing?

NO, FB said that the lds church teaches that you must ask specificly. Now tell me, please, where does the Bible say this? Yes, it says we are to ask but where does it say we must ask specifics? Does the lds god not know the desires of the hearts of man unless one is to be specific? Is that why you must ask specific questions, because he will not know what you really mean if you are not specific?

and yes, the question does apply. I applies right to FB's statement. If you are dancing around it because you don't want to answer, then just say so and lets move on but please all this cat and mouse on this thread is getting more than a little tedious.

Grace

 

[MormonFriend]

NO, FB said that the lds church teaches that you must ask specificly. Now tell me, please, where does the Bible say this? Yes, it says we are to ask but where does it say we must ask specifics? Does the lds god not know the desires of the hearts of man unless one is to be specific? Is that why you must ask specific questions, because he will not know what you really mean if you are not specific?

and yes, the question does apply. I applies right to FB's statement. If you are dancing around it because you don't want to answer, then just say so and lets move on but please all this cat and mouse on this thread is getting more than a little tedious.

Grace

I agree it is tedious, but I think you are worth it. I don't know of any Bible scripture that says it exactly the way you need to hear it to believe it. I believe my explanation suffices to demonstrate that if we ask specifics, we will not be disappointed with the answers. With a promise like this: "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew21:22); how can you go wrong in asking for specifics? That demonstrates good council from the LDS leadership to say we must. It urges us to apply faith so we can learn what faith really is.

How many years were you a LDS, and you do not know the answer to: "Does the lds god not know the desires of the hearts of man unless one is to be specific? Is that why you must ask specific questions, because he will not know what you really mean if you are not specific?" It seem that you still have the resources to search. May I suggest that you do so?

 

[Toms777]

As a matter of fact, I forgot what we were talking about. What I do remember is that I asked a valid question(s) about how God gives understanding to some and not to others. I asked this because, as I said, why discuss deeper Bible doctrine before learning how God teaches how we should learn it? Then you created a distraction tactic saying something to the effect of quit attacking the person and stick to the issue. But since the issue is a deeper doctrine in the Bible, and I had already tried to explain it, it is apparent that we understand things differently. So the logical step would be to consult the Bible as to how we should approach understanding before we try to continue talking apples and oranges.

The fair approach is this. If I do not understand it is because God is withholding it from me. It would be that I am one of those who do not hear His voice. If it is you that does not understand, then the same reasons above would apply to you.

Then maybe we can go on about discussing where in the Bible it says, or does not say, that man can become like God. That doctrine is far from "milk." The issue of how God taught us to understand His doctrines is the "milk" that we must grow on before the meat.

If you cannot agree on this because it is not "the issue," then we can put the issue on hold, and I can make this issue of understanding the subject of another post.

Keep in mind that you should have this same concern. If I am not a Christian, then you do not want to choke me with a T-bone steak. You must teach me the basics and be sure that I am well fed on that first.

You see, I don't feel that this is as important as you seem to think that it is and thus, I will make one more statement about it and then move on.

First, God gave us His word in the Bible, not to withhold knowledge but to enlighten us. Who does he want to enlighten? He wants the unsaved to hear the gospel. If He sent the gospel, he will not take away understanding from those who want the truth. Those who do not love truth, there will be no hope anyway since they will reject the truth when they hear it.

We could argue all day and night for the next 40 years as to who does and does not have understanding. that will get us nowhere. Since it is the Holy Spirit who draws men to God and he gave us His word as a means to do so, then I suggest that we take God at His word, and get into the Bible, trusting Him to be faithful to provide understanding to those who love truth.

If you are not prepared to discuss the Bible with tyhose who you don't feel have understanding, then I guess that this is the wrong board for you to discuss since so many disagree with you, and if you think you have understanding then you must thinkl that the rest of us don't, thus you would be wasting your time.

I, on the other hand, don't even entertain that line of thought. I suimply present the truth of the gospel and study the Bible as He comamnded.

I invite you to do likewise. If we argue over who can or who cannot understand, then we know for a fact that we have no hope of ever coming to alignment. If we get into His word, then there is at least a chnace, maybe remote, but a chnace.

Therefore I will no longer debate this issue with you.

Now, back to the topic - where in the Bible does it endorse the doctrine that men can become God or gods?

 

[Toms777]

So, are you call me a devil worshiper?
I see where Satan wanted to become as God, but where do you quote to say that Satan promised men that they could become as god? He told Eve that they would be as God, knowing good from evil.

I called you nothing. I am dealing with Mormon doctrine. This verse speaks clearly about the doctrine of diefication and shows its source.

Then you won't mind discussing how to understand what God says throug the Bible, by consulting the Bible on what God said about man gaining understanding?

If you want to do so, that is fine, but it is not in concert with this thread, so I would recommend a new thread.

I plan to discuss the topic as I said before, and will not engage in further discussion with appears to me to intended to distract from the topic at hand.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I agree it is tedious, but I think you are worth it. I don't know of any Bible scripture that says it exactly the way you need to hear it to believe it. I believe my explanation suffices to demonstrate that if we ask specifics, we will not be disappointed with the answers. With a promise like this: "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew21:22); how can you go wrong in asking for specifics? That demonstrates good council from the LDS leadership to say we must. It urges us to apply faith so we can learn what faith really is.

How many years were you a LDS, and you do not know the answer to: "Does the lds god not know the desires of the hearts of man unless one is to be specific? Is that why you must ask specific questions, because he will not know what you really mean if you are not specific?" It seem that you still have the resources to search. May I suggest that you do so?

I was active lds for 28 years and I was trying to make a point and get some folks to do some thinking for themselves. I will say this just one more time and I will not say it again. The Bible says were are to pray, it does not say we have to pray "specifically", it does however say that God knows the desires of our hearts before we even ask, so to say or teach that specifics are required is just not Biblical. As you know from my other posts, I believe in the God of the Bible, the one true God of all creation, a God that is so far above human understanding and human ways, he doesn't need specifics to know what I am saying, meaning, thinking or feeling. However, when you hear someone say, "that is why we teach investigators to be specific..." you can't help but think, "that is a mighty small god they serve if they have to be specific with him so he will give them the right answer."

Anyway, I am going back to the original discussion now. If you posts anymore responces to me on this particular posts, please don't expect me to respond. This thing has been drug through the dirt till it has built a gorge the size of the Grand Canyon and I don't care to make the hole any bigger. I am through with the "be specific" discussion.

God Bless-
Grace

 

[twhite982]

I was active lds for 28 years and I was trying to make a point and get some folks to do some thinking for themselves. I will say this just one more time and I will not say it again. The Bible says were are to pray, it does not say we have to pray "specifically", it does however say that God knows the desires of our hearts before we even ask, so to say or teach that specifics are required is just not Biblical. As you know from my other posts, I believe in the God of the Bible, the one true God of all creation, a God that is so far above human understanding and human ways, he doesn't need specifics to know what I am saying, meaning, thinking or feeling. However, when you hear someone say, "that is why we teach investigators to be specific..." you can't help but think, "that is a mighty small god they serve if they have to be specific with him so he will give them the right answer."

Anyway, I am going back to the original discussion now. If you posts anymore responces to me on this particular posts, please don't expect me to respond. This thing has been drug through the dirt till it has built a gorge the size of the Grand Canyon and I don't care to make the hole any bigger. I am through with the "be specific" discussion.

God Bless-
Grace

happyinhisgrace,

Please don't respond to this, I just wanted add a quick thought as I read your last post.

I'll propose a scenario to you:

Two people both believing Christians with faith in Jesus Christ.

One before they go to bed prays to God to bless his wife with peace in her heart the following day because she has struggled for some time now with a heavy heart.

The other person before they go to bed asks God to bless his wife and then goes to bed.

I have absolute confidence that God will answer both of those faithful prayers, but how will either person see the results of his request?

The first person could just ask his wife or notice her demeaner.

The second would be left guessing in what area of his wife's life did God bless her or more likely he won't even notice that he has blessed her and then not show the appropriate gratitude.

The bible does give examples of specific prayers:

1Sam 10:22, Gen 25:21-23, James 5:13-18, Joel 2:32, 5:44, Matt 6:5-13.

As another illustration, haven't you prayed for a specific prayer for Jesus to come into your heart to be the Lord of your life, to forgive your sins?

This is a specific prayer that at least by principle is taught in the bible.

I'm not at all trying to suggest that we always must be specific in our prayers. The Holy Spirit and the situation will dictate the method. Yet if we are looking for specific answers it seems to me as common sense that we shouldn't beat around the bush with generalizations we should get to the "meat" of what we desire.

Anyways just a few of my thoughts and I am not looking for a response form you at all. Lets just let the horse die already.

Tom

 

[MizDoulos]

After pages of responses, the discussion has turned the debate into bickering and personal conflicts. There is no reason to keep the thread open; hence, it has been closed.