Praise to the Man!

[emerald Dragon]

It is impossible to TELL someone what they believe in. No man can know the thoughts of other man, only God. We can INFER their beliefs, but we cannot tell them what they belive in. The hymns of the church do not necessarilly give the doctrine of the church. You cannot take the songs by their literal words. What it is trying to say is that we honor Smith for the great work that he did. Just because the words of the hymn say certain things, means nothing. A man wrote the hymn, who had a great love for the Prophet, and they obviouslly wished to recognize the work that man did, in the way poets do-with great words.

You can't judge a man's belief on what they sing. They sing to honor, not to say that that is only what they believe.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

TomNosser:

As I said to you the last time you said this, you cannot tell me, Arizona_Sunshine, or any LDS what we believe.

Thank You!

Amazing how elusive that concept is to some...

 

[MormonFriend]

Note that many of these attributes given to Joseph apply only to Jesus, for example:

1) The song refers to his great name. This is similar to what scripture says about Jesus name being above all names. throughout scripture, the term "great name" is used primarily to apply to God:

Example:

Josh 7:8-9
8 O Lord, what shall I say when Israel turns its back before its enemies? 9 For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land will hear it, and surround us, and cut off our name from the earth. Then what will You do for Your great name?"
NKJV

2) "Kings shall extol him and nations rever him" refers to Smith in the song, but the Bible uses the term extol solely to apply to God, for example:

Ps 68:4
4 Sing to God, sing praises to His name;
Extol Him who rides on the clouds,
By His name YAH,
And rejoice before Him.
NKJV

3) "Great is his glory" refers to Smith in the song, but the Bible says:

Luke 21:27-28
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
NKJV

4) "..and endless his priesthood" refers to Smith's priesthood in the song:

Heb 7:21
"The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,
'You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek' "),
NKJV

This refers to Jesus in the Bible.

5) "Ever and ever the keys he will hold. " refers to Smith in the song.

In the Bible, it is Jesus who holds the keys:

Rev 1:18-19
18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
NKJV

6) "Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom," in this song speaks of Smith's kingdom. In the Bible, the kingdom belongs to God.

2 Tim 4:1-2
4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
NKJV

7) "Earth must atone for the blood of that man"

Jesus Christ alone died for the sins of man. This is a denial of the true gospel in scripture.

Heb 2:17-18
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
NKJV

8) "Mingling with Gods".

This of course is contrary to the Bible:

Isa 44:8
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

The song therefore attempts to elevate Joseph Smith to equivalency with God.

Tom, you have way too much time on your hands, and a wild imagination.

 

[Toms777]

These teachings do not support the idea that Joseph Smith is robbing Christ of three (of many) exclusive roles Christ plays in our salvation:

Author and Finisher of Our Faith

Our Advocate with the Father

The Only Begotten of The Father

Furthermore, the understanding I have from this is that Joseph Smith will be on the side of Christ, supporting the decisions being made and supporting those faithful followers of Christ who will inherit eternal life.

Those who have not accepted Joseph Smith as a prophet of God have not accepted the fullness of the Gospel; the fullness of the Gospel of Christ.

This is what we believe, and there is an open invitation to all now as well as later.

I noet that you have given a different gospel. a gospel that requires us to follow a different gospel, a gospel of Jospeh Smith.

This is contrary to scripture.

Jude 3
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
NKJV

 

[Toms777]

Tom, you have way too much time on your hands, and a wild imagination.

Apparently you have no answers.......

 

[Toms777]

As I said to you the last time you said this, you cannot tell me, Arizona_Sunshine, or any LDS what we believe.

I am the world authority on what I believe. No man knows more about my beliefs than me.

Show me where I tried to tell you what you believe. I have not ever done so. I have merely accurately presented the teachinsg of the Mormon church. If you do not follow those teachings, then that is fine.

Why not drop the attacks and deal with the issue?

 

[Godisgood]

We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet,Verse 3 "We'll sing of his goodness and mercy. We'll praise him by day and by night, Rejoice in his glorious gospel, And bask in its life-giving light. Thus on to eternal perfection The honest and faithful go, While they who reject this glad message Shall never such happiness know."
Text: Wm. Fowler

Then in "Praise to the Man", "Great is his glory and endless his priesthood" Well, the text speaks for itself.

 

[calgal]

We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet,Verse 3 "We'll sing of his goodness and mercy. We'll praise him by day and by night, Rejoice in his glorious gospel, And bask in its life-giving light. Thus on to eternal perfection The honest and faithful go, While they who reject this glad message Shall never such happiness know."
Text: Wm. Fowler

Then in "Praise to the Man", "Great is his glory and endless his priesthood" Well, the text speaks for itself.

Praises to Men, not God. Sort of sounds sulfurous!

 

[Talyn]

We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet,Verse 3 "We'll sing of his goodness and mercy. We'll praise him by day and by night, Rejoice in his glorious gospel, And bask in its life-giving light. Thus on to eternal perfection The honest and faithful go, While they who reject this glad message Shall never such happiness know."
Text: Wm. Fowler

Then in "Praise to the Man", "Great is his glory and endless his priesthood" Well, the text speaks for itself.

I love that song

 

[Toms777]

Praises to Men, not God. Sort of sounds sulfurous!

Indeed it does. Mormonism believes that man can become a God and thus they have no issue with praising a man.

I am sure that Joseph Smith now realizes the difference between himself and God!!

 

[arizona_sunshine]

We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet,Verse 3 "We'll sing of his goodness and mercy. We'll praise him by day and by night, Rejoice in his glorious gospel, And bask in its life-giving light. Thus on to eternal perfection The honest and faithful go, While they who reject this glad message Shall never such happiness know."
Text: Wm. Fowler

Then in "Praise to the Man", "Great is his glory and endless his priesthood" Well, the text speaks for itself.

The pronoun "His" in each of these is in reference to Jesus Christ.

If you understand the Gospel we live by, you understand that this is the case.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

I am telling you what you believe. I am telling you what the Mormon church teaches, and it is clear from the hymn.

????

This comment looks like you're trying to tell us what we believe.

 

[skylark1]

I was looking through Psalms, searching to find if there were any songs that were sung in praise of Moses. This is part of what I found:

Psalm 105
1 Give thanks to the LORD , call on his name;
make known among the nations what he has done.
2 Sing to him, sing praise to him;
tell of all his wonderful acts.
3 Glory in his holy name;
let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.
4 Look to the LORD and his strength;
seek his face always.

5 Remember the wonders he has done,
his miracles, and the judgments he pronounced,
...
26 He sent Moses his servant,
and Aaron, whom he had chosen.
27 They performed his miraculous signs among them,
his wonders in the land of Ham.
28 He sent darkness and made the land dark-
for had they not rebelled against his words?
29 He turned their waters into blood,
causing their fish to die.
30 Their land teemed with frogs,
which went up into the bedrooms of their rulers.
31 He spoke, and there came swarms of flies,
and gnats throughout their country.
32 He turned their rain into hail,
with lightning throughout their land;
33 he struck down their vines and fig trees
and shattered the trees of their country.
34 He spoke, and the locusts came,
grasshoppers without number;
35 they ate up every green thing in their land,
ate up the produce of their soil.
36 Then he struck down all the firstborn in their land,
the firstfruits of all their manhood.

37 He brought out Israel, laden with silver and gold,
and from among their tribes no one faltered.
38 Egypt was glad when they left,
because dread of Israel had fallen on them.
39 He spread out a cloud as a covering,
and a fire to give light at night.
40 They asked, and he brought them quail
and satisfied them with the bread of heaven.
41 He opened the rock, and water gushed out;
like a river it flowed in the desert.

42 For he remembered his holy promise
given to his servant Abraham.
43 He brought out his people with rejoicing,
his chosen ones with shouts of joy;
44 he gave them the lands of the nations,
and they fell heir to what others had toiled for-
45 that they might keep his precepts
and observe his laws.

Praise the LORD .

The praise is to God, not Moses.

Psalm 106
1 Praise the LORD .

Give thanks to the LORD , for he is good;
his love endures forever.
2 Who can proclaim the mighty acts of the LORD
or fully declare his praise?
3 Blessed are they who maintain justice,
who constantly do what is right.
4 Remember me, O LORD , when you show favor to your people,
come to my aid when you save them,
5 that I may enjoy the prosperity of your chosen ones,
that I may share in the joy of your nation
and join your inheritance in giving praise.

6 We have sinned, even as our fathers did;
we have done wrong and acted wickedly.
7 When our fathers were in Egypt,
they gave no thought to your miracles;
they did not remember your many kindnesses,
and they rebelled by the sea, the Red Sea.
8 Yet he saved them for his name's sake,
to make his mighty power known.
9 He rebuked the Red Sea, and it dried up;
he led them through the depths as through a desert.
10 He saved them from the hand of the foe;
from the hand of the enemy he redeemed them.
11 The waters covered their adversaries;
not one of them survived.
12 Then they believed his promises
and sang his praise.

13 But they soon forgot what he had done
and did not wait for his counsel.
14 In the desert they gave in to their craving;
in the wasteland they put God to the test.
15 So he gave them what they asked for,
but sent a wasting disease upon them.

16 In the camp they grew envious of Moses
and of Aaron, who was consecrated to the LORD .
17 The earth opened up and swallowed Dathan;
it buried the company of Abiram.
18 Fire blazed among their followers;
a flame consumed the wicked.

19 At Horeb they made a calf
and worshiped an idol cast from metal.
20 They exchanged their Glory
for an image of a bull, which eats grass.
21 They forgot the God who saved them,
who had done great things in Egypt,
22 miracles in the land of Ham
and awesome deeds by the Red Sea.
23 So he said he would destroy them-
had not Moses, his chosen one,
stood in the breach before him
to keep his wrath from destroying them.


Again the praise is to God, not Moses.
I cannot find a song that praises Moses.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Note that many of these attributes given to Joseph apply only to Jesus, for example:

1) The song refers to his great name. This is similar to what scripture says about Jesus name being above all names. throughout scripture, the term "great name" is used primarily to apply to God:

Example:

Josh 7:8-9
8 O Lord, what shall I say when Israel turns its back before its enemies? 9 For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land will hear it, and surround us, and cut off our name from the earth. Then what will You do for Your great name?"
NKJV

Genesis 12:1-2
1 NOW the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:


Genesis 26:12-13
12 Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him.

13 And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great:


Second Samuel 7:8-9
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:

9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.

These men were great in the sight of the Lord.

The Lord is great above all men, we believe that. He has faithful servants called to do His work. We believe Joseph Smith is one of them.

If you think the idea is "preposterous," you are fulfilling your sited Brigham Young prophesy.

 

[emerald Dragon]

Did not the prophets of old say that the people would be destroyed because they would not harken to the words of the prophets. God puts extreme emphasis on His prohpets. He wants us to honor them and listen to them. Jesus said "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee." (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34)

God allowed Jerusalem to be taken captive at bout 600 BC because the people would not harken unto the prophets. This is what the songs are saying, that the Modern-day prophets have the same pull as those in the Old and New Testments. WE do not put the prophets above or near Christ, but above men, because of the Great Work that they are called to do, to lead His people, to guide them to Him.

 

[emerald Dragon]

????

This comment looks like you're trying to tell us what we believe.

I see the same here. Also, your tone implies that you are becoming a little nasty with us. This is a discussion forum, not an argument forum. To everyone, try to keep your tempers in check, and try to be civil. Thank You.

 

[Toms777]

The pronoun "His" in each of these is in reference to Jesus Christ.

If you understand the Gospel we live by, you understand that this is the case.

You need to read the words more carefully, unless you are trying to tell me that Joseph Smith is Jesus Christ. Look at these words:

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Care to tell me why a stain is on Illinois for the death of Jesus?

How about this line:

Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Since when is "Jesus" known as "Joseph"?

No, you need to read the words more carefull. For your benefit, here is the entire hymn again. If someone told you that the song is about Jesus, they were either equally ignorant of the words to the songs or were trying to deceive you. I understand the gospel, but this song teaches about a false gospel, a different gospel and a false jesus, a false messiah.

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Chorus: Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Sigh.

Tom777, in the cited lines, the pronouns are in reference to Jesus Christ.

Would you care to paste the lines from "We Thank Thee, O God, For the Prophet"?

Do not try to use hymns to prove that we hold Joseph Smith in higher esteem than we do Christ. Especially when you have been told repeatedly by every member of the church here that you are absolutely incorrect.

 

[Toms777]

????

This comment looks like you're trying to tell us what we believe.

I am telling you what the mormon church teaches. I am using mormon church literature to show you that this is the case.

 

[Toms777]

Sigh.

Tom777, in the cited lines, the pronouns are in reference to Jesus Christ.

Would you care to paste the lines from "We Thank Thee, O God, For the Prophet"?

Do not try to use hymns to prove that we hold Joseph Smith in higher esteem than we do Christ. Especially when you have been told repeatedly by every member of the church here that you are absolutely incorrect.

When you tell me one thing and Mormon documents say something different, I can only assume that you have been mis-informed. At that point, you have the choice to agree with what the mormon church teaches or to disagree.

If yopu disagree and you believe that what the mormon church teaches, then you have a decision as to whether to stay with a false church or leave.