Posting angry- Are you guilty?

[Nadiine]

The type of anger that I am referring to is that one that I see here often. There is nothing wrong with indignant anger directed at sin nor is there anything wrong with righteous anger properly channeled to debunk unsound doctrine. Scripture is clear in this respect.

The anger that I typically see here is one where the anger is directed at a person versus a sin or a false doctrine. Here are some examples of post formats that depict the type of anger that I am talking about.

1. A post is quoted from a poster that you (general you) is engaging in debate.

2. The first or last part of the post addresses the poster directly, typically identified by "you" statements. Examples, "you are living in sin", or "you are not saved" or "you are not a Christian", etc. Mind me, these are straightforward examples but these examples are typically disguised one way or another with the same meaning implied.

3. The middle of the post typically addresses the topic of argument which is fine.

See, if we can stop the angry polemics associated with these type of posts then we can put our point across the way that scripture intended. We suffer from "there is no way that I am loosing this argument" syndrome. However, what most fail to realize is that no one here is really going to win an argument in this debate format. The fact is that what you (general you) post will be read by many and some will agree with you and some will not. Planting seeds is what Jesus our Lord commands us to do in the great commission. We are to spread the good news of Christ and patiently correct unsound doctrine.

oh I see.

Well, it's a doctrinal battle -

I view what's going on as an actual battle to claim CF for a different group. It's alot more than just planting seeds like it might have been a few yrs ago, it's turning into putting a victory flag on CF to claim it for conservatism - or liberalism or orthodoxy or unorthodoxy or whatever.

The groups have battled so long that it's turned into war - many casualties have left - and now it's smaller groups.
That's been going on for a long time now; we saw it last year when the wiki wars sprung up - claiming territory.

That's how I view what's been transpiring over time. It's shifted from individual witnessing to group against group fighting for supremacy.
What little time I went into the outreach area to poke around, I saw the problem right away - you had orthodox & unorthodox's fighting each other in front of nonChristians who sat by shaking their heads & laughing at how "Christians" can't even witness the same gospel to them.
They were right too.

And that is what I believe the result is when someone wants to paint them all as one big family under the same banner.

Consider it civil war under the CF banner it's chosen. But I don't see it EVER changing.
You can slap rules & enforcement to stop it, but it's always there & eroding away.
(and I'd add 'causing people confusion')

 

[Zaac]

oh I see.

Well, it's a doctrinal battle - if you notice, it's nearly all the same subjects over & over.
reheated & resliced & revolving -

I view what's going on as an actual battle to claim CF for a different group. It's alot more than just planting seeds like it might have been a few yrs ago, it's turning into putting a victory flag on CF to claim it for conservatism - or liberalism or orthodoxy or unorthodoxy or whatever.

The groups have battled so long that it's turned into war - many casualties have left - and now it's smaller groups.
That's been going on for a long time now; we saw it last year when the wiki wars sprung up - claiming territory.

That's how I view what's been transpiring over time. It's shifted from individual witnessing to group against group fighting for supremacy.
What little time I went into the outreach area to poke around, I saw the problem right away - you had orthodox & unorthodox's fighting each other in front of nonChristians who sat by shaking their heads & laughing at how "Christians" can't even witness the same gospel to them.
They were right too.
And that is what I believe the result is when someone wants to paint them all as one big family under the same banner.

Consider it civil war under the CF banner it's chosen. But I don't see it EVER changing.
You can slap rules & enforcement to stop it, but it's always there & eroding away.

And that's a petpeeve of mine. There is nothing that gets my goat more than Christians being the cause of the confusion because everybody wants God's Word to say what they want it to say instead of just letting it say what It says.

I just find myself going "My God, My God". How can we declare that we are little Christ while rejecting the very Truth of Christ?

I know I can frustrate the last bit of patience of most folks on here and bring on the straight devil in some. ANd I know for a fact that quite a bit of that anger does seem to come in my direction. But this is just so simple and I can't understand why the majority don't get it.

Accept God's Word AS IS and the confusion and contradiction goes away. If just some kind of way Christendom could find a way to say lets forget the word studies and the commentaries for a while and start from scratch.

Lets all agree to just accept God's Word AS IS for what the words on the page say. We may in our personal lives be at odds with what the words say, but let's accept it as final absolute Truth AS IS anyway because it is God's Word.

If we would just take all of OUR insecurities about man writing the Word down out of the equation and just trust that the God of CREATION is big enough to maintain the integrity of His Word, all would be well.

The arguments would vanish.
The anger would vanish.
The dissention would vanish.
The contradiction would vanish.
The confusion would vanish.

 

[Pommer]

The "problem", as I see it, is that people would rather be "right" than loving.
An ancillary problem is that some people think by being "in the right" they are being loving.
Manys the post that I have written but never do actually hit the submit button simply because the post is glorifying myself without regard to other's feelings, thoughts, concerns or simply that they're not going to change their minds due to my post.

Really...ANSWER me this: Have you EVER seen someone change their mind during an internet discussion?
I have (but the person who did went from being right to wrong,IMO!!)

And that is the only time I've seen it, ever, in 16 years on the intertubes.

 

[Nadiine]

The "problem", as I see it, is that people would rather be "right" than loving.
An ancillary problem is that some people think by being "in the right" they are being loving.
Manys the post that I have written but never do actually hit the submit button simply because the post is glorifying myself without regard to other's feelings, thoughts, concerns or simply that they're not going to change their minds due to my post.

Really...ANSWER me this: Have you EVER seen someone change their mind during an internet discussion?
I have (but the person who did went from being right to wrong,IMO!!)

And that is the only time I've seen it, ever, in 16 years on the intertubes.

If this is the case, then it tells you something about motive for debate in and of itself.
Are people trying to witness God's truth as His ambassador or win?
Do they care about people's souls or their own ego & enjoying this fun "hobby"?

Alot of debate revolves around pride if you aren't careful. Intellectualism. I had the good fortune in one Harry Potter debate of a guy actually slipping up & claiming he "won" when I finally quit debating against it becuz the topic had run its course & everything he was saying had already been introduced & discussed (ad nauseum).

So if you left, you "lost" & he thought that was funny. That was really my cue to know I was doing the right thing in leaving & then I wished I hadn't wasted my time.

If the motive is pure before God, then it isn't about being "right", but about His word being preserved and for that I'll go down doing all I can to promote it with evidence & sincerety.

That can bring passions - and even righteous anger if someone is promoting obvious error or false teaching.

But I do get your meaning - & I agree that's probly some of this too (probly more of an ignorance issue?)

 

[Pommer]

Alot of debate revolves around pride if you aren't careful. Intellectualism.

LOL.
Intellectualism, per se, isn't a "bad thing", is it?
I mean, it CAN be but not in all instances, surely?

When I post I stay away from certain types of threads...the "dueling scriptures" threads where posters aim bible passages at one another until one leaves in disgust.

The "dog pile" threads I leave too, (one person agin EVERYONE else). I ain't going to "help" the one person by anything I say (if I agree with them) and if I don't agree then I leave it to the others to deal with them.

I do "insight" good and usually leave it at that.

Your "Harry Potter" debate, fer instance, I wouldn't have touched any part of a thread like that...the parties involved are too much at odds for me to do either one of them any good at all.

 

[Zaac]

If this is the case, then it tells you something about motive for debate in and of itself.
Are people trying to witness God's truth as His ambassador or win?
Do they care about people's souls or their own ego & enjoying this fun "hobby"?

Alot of debate revolves around pride if you aren't careful. Intellectualism. I had the good fortune in one Harry Potter debate of a guy actually slipping up & claiming he "won" when I finally quit debating against it becuz the topic had run its course & everything he was saying had already been introduced & discussed (ad nauseum).

So if you left, you "lost" & he thought that was funny. That was really my cue to know I was doing the right thing in leaving & then I wished I hadn't wasted my time.

If the motive is pure before God, then it isn't about being "right", but about His word being preserved and for that I'll go down doing all I can to promote it with evidence & sincerety.

That can bring passions - and even righteous anger if someone is promoting obvious error or false teaching.

But I do get your meaning - & I agree that's probly some of this too (probly more of an ignorance issue?)

Had somebody tell me just the other day

therefore by ALL Christian standards i have won this part of the argument, unless i misquoted scripture which you have also failed to prove.

And

it's true what i said and i'm afraid your the only one laughing. you will find everyone else will agree with me. what you claim people are doing you are doing yourself.

Which again is why so many folks get angry. They think you're trying to argue and all you're doing is repeating what God's Word says.

Oh well. Que sera sera.

 

[Nadiine]

LOL.
Intellectualism, per se, isn't a "bad thing", is it?
I mean, it CAN be but not in all instances, surely?

I meant when it gets to the point of being about intellectualism,
it's lost good motive for spiritual debate.

But honestly, I didn't post here to debate my replies to Hentenza

Your "Harry Potter" debate, fer instance, I wouldn't have touched any part of a thread like that...the parties involved are too much at odds for me to do either one of them any good at all.

Not every topic is for everyone. I run from gay threads like the plague, others don't.
Every time I hop in one to make a point or support someone, I wish I hadn't - nearly all of them end up closed anyways.

 

[Nadiine]

Had somebody tell me just the other day


And


Which again is why so many folks get angry. They think you're trying to argue and all you're doing is repeating what God's Word says.

Oh well. Que sera sera.

Yes, those 2 examples are people displaying their motive for debate
WINNING.

(as if the number of people means something is true or right?
if so, then the earth really IS flat & the earth is resting on a big fat elephant)

 

[Pommer]

Not every topic is for everyone. I run from gay threads like the plague, others don't.

Same here...the gay thread have "the usual suspects" and NO-ONE is going to all of a sudden go, "You know, I've been seeing this ALL WRONG! I'm switching sides!" So it's pointless to wade into one.

 

[Nadiine]

Same here...the gay thread have "the usual suspects" and NO-ONE is going to all of a sudden go, "You know, I've been seeing this ALL WRONG! I'm switching sides!" So it's pointless to wade into one.

YEP

how many times can you reheat the same verses?
There's been plenty of truth given on the subject here,
I'll leave it at that. (however, sometimes I will pop in one
to leave some breadcrumbs - cant' make it THAT easy for them
all the time)

 

[&Abel]

And that's a petpeeve of mine. There is nothing that gets my goat more than Christians being the cause of the confusion because everybody wants God's Word to say what they want it to say instead of just letting it say what It says.

I just find myself going "My God, My God". How can we declare that we are little Christ while rejecting the very Truth of Christ?

I know I can frustrate the last bit of patience of most folks on here and bring on the straight devil in some. ANd I know for a fact that quite a bit of that anger does seem to come in my direction. But this is just so simple and I can't understand why the majority don't get it.

Accept God's Word AS IS and the confusion and contradiction goes away. If just some kind of way Christendom could find a way to say lets forget the word studies and the commentaries for a while and start from scratch.

Lets all agree to just accept God's Word AS IS for what the words on the page say. We may in our personal lives be at odds with what the words say, but let's accept it as final absolute Truth AS IS anyway because it is God's Word.

If we would just take all of OUR insecurities about man writing the Word down out of the equation and just trust that the God of CREATION is big enough to maintain the integrity of His Word, all would be well.

The arguments would vanish.
The anger would vanish.
The dissention would vanish.
The contradiction would vanish.
The confusion would vanish.

unfortunately this will not fly...I've noticed some people actually arguing that we shouldn't be interpreting the word of god and that doctrine is equal in authority...they even took it to a level of belittling the word and treating it as just another document

ppl who are caught up in pride and unwilling to change will adopt whatever view helps to keep them set in their ways

 

[&Abel]

Now, that isnt true.
Anger is an emotion and anger CAN be quite just and even righteous....such as Jesus being pretty flipped out about the temple being defiled by the Jews.

If anger = hate in every case then God Himself would have to be hate.

point taken

I mostly meant uncontrolled wreckless indulgence of anger...this is most definitely hate

you can't control the emotional response itself but you CAN control how you react to that emotion

I think some ppl are actually addicted to anger(anger is a direct response to anxiety and can provide a temporary "fix" when indulged) but as with all other quick fixes...its not a fix at all and just causes more problems within yourself and your relationships

 

[Hentenza]

oh I see.

Well, it's a doctrinal battle -

I view what's going on as an actual battle to claim CF for a different group. It's alot more than just planting seeds like it might have been a few yrs ago, it's turning into putting a victory flag on CF to claim it for conservatism - or liberalism or orthodoxy or unorthodoxy or whatever.

The groups have battled so long that it's turned into war - many casualties have left - and now it's smaller groups.
That's been going on for a long time now; we saw it last year when the wiki wars sprung up - claiming territory.

That's how I view what's been transpiring over time. It's shifted from individual witnessing to group against group fighting for supremacy.
What little time I went into the outreach area to poke around, I saw the problem right away - you had orthodox & unorthodox's fighting each other in front of nonChristians who sat by shaking their heads & laughing at how "Christians" can't even witness the same gospel to them.
They were right too.

And that is what I believe the result is when someone wants to paint them all as one big family under the same banner.

Consider it civil war under the CF banner it's chosen. But I don't see it EVER changing.
You can slap rules & enforcement to stop it, but it's always there & eroding away.
(and I'd add 'causing people confusion')

I agree with your post but are the polemics necessary?

 

[Nadiine]

I agree with your post but are the polemics necessary?

When you have mostly the same names posting to one another back & forth, that is the result. The frustration, irritation & anger builds up.

Is it necessary? If a post is given in rebuke to another then I suppose some of it could have some merit to some degree.

This is just the byproduct of a site that determines to keep complete doctrinal/spiritual opposites together - without unity (which will NEVER happen) the tension & frustration continues to grow.

Biblically, you're told to "contend earnestly for the faith". You're told to use rebuke, you're told to shake the dust from those who refuse truth of God.... the aggressiveness towards those who willfully reject scripture or falsely teach is in scripture imo.
I think the NT writers said things just as harsh at times. So in a way I think some can be warrented. Does it HELP anything? Doubtful other than guests at least know where people stand so there's no mistaking the division. (I also don't believe division is bad - it's commanded in some instances).

I just knew it would be like this even after they changed it to "Christians Only" becuz of the extreme doctrinal opposites they're working to unite.

 

[cwolf20]

that might explain why I get wordy. Or in the case today, wrote a humorous, slightly mocking response to someone, and followed it up with a wordy, yet thought out post that is still an emotional response to having someone slap a label on me in the hopes I'll be quiet

point taken

you can't control the emotional response itself but you CAN control how you react to that emotion

 

[Zeena]

I just saw this thread in someones siggie-meh
And I wanted to respond to this, if I may?

I just knew it would be like this even after they changed it to "Christians Only" becuz of the extreme doctrinal opposites they're working to unite.

Yet, it is good that these 'doctrinal opposites' [and even theological opposites] are being worked out behind closed doors, is it not? Rather than making a bad showing of our faith to the world?

 

[&Abel]

where else is it going to get worked out? who cares what the world thinks of us...we have to work at achieving truth together and what better place then a world community

I doubt there are many here who are not christians or considering becoming a christian at this point and frankly I think its probably inviting to newbies to get in on the "action"(to someone whos still in a prideful mindset learning the scriptures and proving ppl wrong could seem inviting) until you realize many are unwilling to see the truth even when they are seeing it

 

[Nadiine]

I just saw this thread in someones siggie-meh
And I wanted to respond to this, if I may?

Yet, it is good that these 'doctrinal opposites' [and even theological opposites] are being worked out behind closed doors, is it not? Rather than making a bad showing of our faith to the world?

In the process, false teaching is being promoted as is sin/immorality
in God's name - & as people hold Christian icons.

What I'd like to know is if CF is considering Unorthodoxy as "Christianity"?

I haven't thought about this before, but I see some of the unorthodox
posting as Christians in the Theology forums - I"m unclear on what CF
is declaring [definition-wise] by this. .

If unorthodoxy is going to be termed 'Christian', then
we can just expect the battle to continue & I don't see it's helping this
site any as more and more give up & walk away from CF altogether, Or
get banned due to violations in the clashes - they happen in both
sides.

I dunno -

 

[Nadiine]

cut

I doubt there are many here who are not christians or considering becoming a christian cut

I disagree .

 

[Nadiine]

I just saw this thread in someones siggie-meh
And I wanted to respond to this, if I may?

Yet, it is good that these 'doctrinal opposites' [and even theological opposites] are being worked out behind closed doors, is it not? Rather than making a bad showing of our faith to the world?

I honestly dont' see them being "worked out" - they're being fought daily.
War isn't "working anything out" is it? It's battling for victory ultimately.

God isn't 'working anything out' with His enemy Satan; He's fighting Satan
every step of the way. That's how it works with opposite sides that
have nothing in common.
Same with pro choicers & pro lifers; they aren't working anything out
they're fighting until they succeed (or to continue their hold on victory).

I don't see anything being worked out thru this - if anything, it's
gotten more divisive over time as the same people continue