LDS possible sources for BOM avilable to JS

[Daniel Marsh]

read to here

 

[He is the way]

And where do you find a quote from them in what I posted in those two posts?

Perhaps I misunderstood your post when you said "And did you find a candidate from Joseph Smith's writing?? ..". I thought you were talking about the Book of Mormon.

 

[He is the way]

Which is the same point the Jews themselves made in Luke 10 as I already pointed out.

The Matthew 22 and Luke 22 discussion of this point was all before the cross.

Just as Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 are before the cross.

the Matt 22 statement of Christ is that
"on these two commandments DEPEND the whole law AND the prophets" which is not a claim that "by these two commandments are the LAW and the prophets all deleted".

The firm foundation on which the house rests -- is not there to abolish the house.

Which is why Jesus and Paul keep quoting from the TEN as in Matt 19, and Romans 13, and Romans 7 as well as others like James in James 2.

No wonder then that we have this in Eph 6:1-2

Matthew and Luke were written after Christ's death on the cross.

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew and Luke were written after Christ's death on the cross.

True. And your point??

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
And where do you find a quote from them in what I posted in those two posts?

Perhaps I misunderstood your post when you said "And did you find a candidate from Joseph Smith's writing?? ..". I thought you were talking about the Book of Mormon.

From whatever you consider to be written by Joseph Smith... if BoM then fine that will do.

 

[BobRyan]

I think he wanted quotes with the highlighted parts that match.

I am not sure our friend is following the discussion.

 

[He is the way]

From whatever you consider to be written by Joseph Smith... if BoM then fine that will do.

Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon, he dictated it to his scribes as it was given to him by God. Most scholars believe that Paul used a scribe as revelation was given to him by God. That being said, the Book of Mormon had several authors as I mentioned.

 

[BobRyan]

Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon, he dictated it to his scribes as it was given to him by God. Most scholars believe that Paul used a scribe as revelation was given to him by God. That being said, the Book of Mormon had several authors as I mentioned.

I gave you complete freedom to pick whatever you want from what Joseph Smith wrote / authored ... etc.

Are you prepared to select something?

 

[He is the way]

I gave you complete freedom to pick whatever you want from what Joseph Smith wrote / authored ... etc.

Are you prepared to select something?

Sure:

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith Preface:Heading - 1:13)


THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535–541



1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

JOSEPH SMITH.

 

[BobRyan]

Sure:

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith Preface:Heading - 1:13)


THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535–541



1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

JOSEPH SMITH.

ok so then "your statement of beliefs" -- where did you see any of that in what I quoted as a "possible source"???

 

[He is the way]

ok so then "your statement of beliefs" -- where did you see any of that in what I quoted as a "possible source"???

I see it as being from the Bible and inspiration through the Holy Ghost.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon, he dictated it to his scribes as it was given to him by God. Most scholars believe that Paul used a scribe as revelation was given to him by God. That being said, the Book of Mormon had several authors as I mentioned.

Since God is the author, there would not be grammar errors.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I see it as being from the Bible and inspiration through the Holy Ghost.

inspired does not mean dictated.

 

[BobRyan]

I see it as being from the Bible and inspiration through the Holy Ghost.

Then you don't have anything that you find in what you posted that looks like it was used as a source for the text I posted?

How then do you compare the two examples since it appears the writing style and content are not even remotely the same? What is your purpose in comparing that section to what I posted?

Or do you know what I posted?

 

[He is the way]

Since God is the author, there would not be grammar errors.

As I said God is not the author of the Book of Mormon, it was written by mant people.

 

[He is the way]

inspired does not mean dictated.

The articles of faith were not dictated.

 

[BobRyan]

As I said God is not the author of the Book of Mormon, it was written by mant people.

Be that as it may be your POV - I think a lot of people would agree with the first part of that statement

 

[BobRyan]

And did you read #110 #108 ??

Yes I read them both.

And did you find a candidate from Joseph Smith's writing?? ..

The candidates for the Book of Mormon are:

Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Jarom, Omni, Mormon, Mosiah, Alma, Helaman, Nephi the younger, Ether, Moroni' and others.

BobRyan said: ↑
And where do you find a quote from them in what I posted in those two posts?

Perhaps I misunderstood your post when you said "And did you find a candidate from Joseph Smith's writing?? ..". I thought you were talking about the Book of Mormon.

I believe it is fair to say you were not following the point of the discussion

 

[He is the way]

Then you don't have anything that you find in what you posted that looks like it was used as a source for the text I posted?

How then do you compare the two examples since it appears the writing style and content are not even remotely the same? What is your purpose in comparing that section to what I posted?

Or do you know what I posted?

I believe those similarities I posted were about keeping the commandments. I was not trying to dispute or disagree, only to compare.
You posted from the book The Desire of Ages written by Ellen White. Daniel pointed out that there were similarities between Ellen White and Joseph Smith. From the Joseph Smith history we see these similarities:

Mormonism's Joseph Smith and Ellen White

Ellen White and Joseph Smith – Ellen White Truth

Some people do not believe Ellen had a vision. I believe she did along with many other people. Hazen Foss and William E. Foy also claimed to have visions. Many people have had near death experiences. They also have many similarities in their experiences. Some say that Jesus spoke to them in King James English.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe those similarities I posted were about keeping the commandments. I was not trying to dispute or disagree, only to compare.
You posted from the book The Desire of Ages written by Ellen White. Daniel pointed out that there were similarities between Ellen White and Joseph Smith.

In fact Daniel was trying out the proposal that the actual substance of her text came from Smith.

My point was that the writing of the two is not at all similar. Desire of Ages chapters on the life of Christ is clearly not a rephrase of anything you posted.

From the Joseph Smith history we see these similarities:

Mormonism's Joseph Smith and Ellen White

Ellen White and Joseph Smith – Ellen White Truth

Some people do not believe Ellen had a vision. I believe she did along with many other people. Hazen Foss and William E. Foy also claimed to have visions.

Agreed that Ellen White, Hazen Foss and William Foy had visions and that Joseph Smith claimed he did as well.

But that does not address the question raised about taking the text of Joseph Smith and paraphrasing it in something like "Desire of Ages" as the snips I provided from Desire of Ages demonstrate.

I simply asked if you had evidence of the claim that was made.

Instead of that you are talking about the fact that they all claimed to have had visions which is not the same topic.

My claim is that Hazen Foss, Ellen White, William Foy are examples of people that actually had visions that came from God and none of them involved staring into hat, or looking through a stone, or digging up golden plates or the things that Joseph Smith liked to focus on or the way he wrote.