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Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

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WatersMoon110

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No, because there was never any argument that being black was a choice. There are many people who believe that being gay is a choice, and their decision to oppose gay marriage is based partly on that. So it's not the same.
Just because people believe that it is a choice to be gay doesn't mean that it isn't discrimination to purposely deny them legal benefits.

Christianity is (certainly) a choice - but we shouldn't discriminate against Christians.
 
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Garyzenuf

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Contribute to them becoming an alcoholic, along with a genetic pre-disposition.


Genetic pre-disposition seems more accurate, I agree.

Angellica, if I had sex with a man, would that "make" me gay?

If I had sex with a woman, would that "make" me straight?

I was pre-disposed to be a straight alcoholic (amongst other things) before birth, no amount of not drinking makes me not an alcoholic, no amount of sex with men will make me not straight.

Inside where it counts, I'm still who I was when I was born, as you are, as straights are, and as Homosexuals are. It's all in the genes. :)

*
 
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WatersMoon110

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A man and woman marriage on its own can produce a family - a homosexual one cannot. This is the basis of the marriage concept. It would be very hard to weed out those marrying but not planning on children, so it is open to all man-woman relationships. Marriage is based on family more than on love, traditionally anyway.
Traditionally marriage used to be based more on ties and property instead of on love. But marriage as it currently exists is based mainly on love.

Homosexuals can adopt in most States, so same sex couples are just as potentially able to raise a family as any other couple.
 
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b&wpac4

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Just because people believe that it is a choice to be gay doesn't mean that it isn't discrimination to purposely deny them legal benefits.

Christianity is (certainly) a choice - but we shouldn't discriminate against Christians.

That is a great point. I shall have to remember this.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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It may actually be more closer to love than you think. By condoning it, I'd be remiss in my duty as a Christian to practice my beliefs and uphold them. If even one person sees the error of their ways because of this, it would be worth it. It's "tough love" in a way.
Again it is not acceptable for you to decide who is remiss in their ways and who is not, I breed snakes as a hobby and frequently get all kinds of negative comments about it and people that want to keep me from doing it just because they do not like them, which is precisely what you are doing to people who have no desire for the opposite sex.
 
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QuakerOats

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The point is, it's not discrimination. The black/white thing was racial. This is a basic definition of marriage - a man and a woman. It's not discriminating against anyone. It's a right that you can choose not to take advantage of.
As others have pointed out, the definition of marriage has changed before, and it can change again. The basic definition of marriage used to be a man of a certain race + a woman of that same race, and then it changed to simply a man + a woman. According to your logic, men and women wanting to marry outside their race were not being discriminated against because the definition of marriage was what it was, and they could choose to take advantage of that or not. I hope you see how flimsy that premise is, especially when there's no demonstrable reason beyond human fear and ignorance not to allow something like that. The reason the race argument is brought up is because outside of certain religious notions, there is little to no difference in what they're asking for. And as the government is not to recognize one religious preference over others, it only stands to reason that gay and lesbian people be given the right to wed the one they love. The bible does, after all, say to 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.' (matthew 22:21).
 
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Garyzenuf

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It may actually be more closer to love than you think. By condoning it, I'd be remiss in my duty as a Christian to practice my beliefs and uphold them. If even one person sees the error of their ways because of this, it would be worth it. It's "tough love" in a way.


Its only tough love when you are ready to lose something to express it.

What do you lose by pointing out the errors of peoples ways? :)

*
 
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OphidiaPhile

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They have the same right as me - to marry someone of the opposite sex. Whether they want to act on that right or not is up to them.
That is dictating their rights not giving them their rights. And you would have the same rights that they do you could choose to marry a woman so you would actually have more rights than you do now, And when you tell us that you have no desire to marry someone of the same sex sit back and think about it and you may realize what you are saying.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Wait a sec! LOL...

A straight is complaining that one partner of a gay couple being able to put their partner on their insurance policy is going to make their (the straight complaining about this) insurance premiums go up? Did I read that correctly?

And then they said the other partner should either get a job or marry someone of the opposite sex? Did I read this correctly? Why yes, yes I did. Hahahahahahahahahaha! That is really funny.

OK first... Hetero Christians are the ones who typically think the moral and good thing to do is for the wife to stay home and pop kids out left and right.

So please -- do explain -- how on earth a gay couple is going to raise your premiums more than a hetero couple with the husband working and the wife at home raising six kids.

Really! Explain. Please. Don't dodge this time. I really want to know the answer to this. A reasonable, logical answer, not some BS dodge or no response at all like I usually get.
I would also like to hear this answer.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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The point is, it's not discrimination. The black/white thing was racial. This is a basic definition of marriage - a man and a woman. It's not discriminating against anyone. It's a right that you can choose not to take advantage of.
Actually it is discrimination and the Supreme Court of CA declared it as such as have the Supreme Courts of other states and the governments of other countries.

Marriage has multiple definitions over the centuries and the only valid one is that which the couple getting married acknowledge.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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No, because there was never any argument that being black was a choice. There are many people who believe that being gay is a choice, and their decision to oppose gay marriage is based partly on that. So it's not the same.
But those people that believe it is a choice are not scientists, scholars or Psychologists so why should there uneducated opinion matter?
 
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OphidiaPhile

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A man and woman marriage on its own can produce a family - a homosexual one cannot. This is the basis of the marriage concept. It would be very hard to weed out those marrying but not planning on children, so it is open to all man-woman relationships. Marriage is based on family more than on love, traditionally anyway.
Actually if you want to go the traditional route it is not based on love or kids but purely on economic points, how about we base marriage solely on the dowry system and parents can go back to deciding who their kids marry based on who can give them the most goats.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Just because people believe that it is a choice to be gay doesn't mean that it isn't discrimination to purposely deny them legal benefits.

Christianity is (certainly) a choice - but we shouldn't discriminate against Christians.


*COUGH*
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Morals are grounded in emotion.

then morals technically wouldnt exist if that was true. There must be a universal morality in order for there to be justice, otherwise murder in one area would be moral while not moral in another.
 
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angellica

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Wait a sec! LOL...

A straight is complaining that one partner of a gay couple being able to put their partner on their insurance policy is going to make their (the straight complaining about this) insurance premiums go up? Did I read that correctly?

And then they said the other partner should either get a job or marry someone of the opposite sex? Did I read this correctly? Why yes, yes I did. Hahahahahahahahahaha! That is really funny.

OK first... Hetero Christians are the ones who typically think the moral and good thing to do is for the wife to stay home and pop kids out left and right.

So please -- do explain -- how on earth a gay couple is going to raise your premiums more than a hetero couple with the husband working and the wife at home raising six kids.

Really! Explain. Please. Don't dodge this time. I really want to know the answer to this. A reasonable, logical answer, not some BS dodge or no response at all like I usually get.
Sarcasm. I am saying that if gays are wanting to marry for insurance, they're no better than the straights who marry for insurance. That's not a valid reason to justify changing the definition of marriage.
 
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angellica

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Just because people believe that it is a choice to be gay doesn't mean that it isn't discrimination to purposely deny them legal benefits.

Christianity is (certainly) a choice - but we shouldn't discriminate against Christians.
Then why discriminate against the Christians who view homosexual marriage as wrong? Why discount their beliefs?
 
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