Pope, King of the world?

[&Abel]

Let Us Obey God, And Not The Authors Of Sedition

Take heed, beloved, lest His many kindnesses lead to the condemnation of us all. [For thus it must be] unless we walk worthy of Him, and with one mind do those things which are good and well-pleasing in His sight. For [the Scripture] saith in a certain place, "The Spirit of the Lord is a candle searching the secret parts of the belly." Let us reflect how near He is, and that none of the thoughts or reasonings in which we engage are hid from Him. It is right, therefore, that we should not leave the post which His will has assigned us. Let us rather offend those men who are foolish, and inconsiderate, and lifted up, and who glory in the pride of their speech, than [offend] God. Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us; let us esteem those who have the rule over us; let us honour the aged among us; let us train up the young men in the fear of God; let us direct our wives to that which is good. Let them exhibit the lovely habit of purity [in all their conduct]; let them show forth the sincere disposition of meekness; let them make manifest the command which they have of their tongue, by their manner of speaking; let them display their love, not by preferring one to another, but by showing equal affection to all that piously fear God. Let your children be partakers of true Christian training; let them learn of how great avail humility is with God--how much the spirit of pure affection can prevail with Him--how excellent and great His fear is, and how it saves all those who walk in it with a pure mind. For He is a Searcher of the thoughts and desires [of the heart]: His breath is in us; and when He pleases, He will take it away.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Let Us Obey God, And Not The Authors Of Sedition

Take heed, beloved, lest His many kindnesses lead to the condemnation of us all. [For thus it must be] unless we walk worthy of Him, and with one mind do those things which are good and well-pleasing in His sight. For [the Scripture] saith in a certain place, "The Spirit of the Lord is a candle searching the secret parts of the belly." Let us reflect how near He is, and that none of the thoughts or reasonings in which we engage are hid from Him. It is right, therefore, that we should not leave the post which His will has assigned us. Let us rather offend those men who are foolish, and inconsiderate, and lifted up, and who glory in the pride of their speech, than [offend] God. Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us; let us esteem those who have the rule over us; let us honour the aged among us; let us train up the young men in the fear of God; let us direct our wives to that which is good. Let them exhibit the lovely habit of purity [in all their conduct]; let them show forth the sincere disposition of meekness; let them make manifest the command which they have of their tongue, by their manner of speaking; let them display their love, not by preferring one to another, but by showing equal affection to all that piously fear God. Let your children be partakers of true Christian training; let them learn of how great avail humility is with God--how much the spirit of pure affection can prevail with Him--how excellent and great His fear is, and how it saves all those who walk in it with a pure mind. For He is a Searcher of the thoughts and desires [of the heart]: His breath is in us; and when He pleases, He will take it away.

So awesome!

This is so like the Catholic Church in how it so obeys God in incalculable ways.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Anyone else for the OP?

 

[Standing Up]

Nope, they can't

LLOJ you are correct they cannot, after/apart from Polycarp, Melito, Polycrates.

 

[Standing Up]

Equally noteworthy is the action of Emperor Aurelian in 270. A synod of bishops had condemned Paul of Samosata, Patriarch of Alexandria, on a charge of heresy, and had elected Domnus bishop in his place. Paul refused to withdraw, and appeal was made to the civil power. The emperor decreed that he who was acknowledged by the bishops of Italy and the Bishop of Rome, must be recognized as rightful occupant of the see. The incident proves that even the pagans themselves knew well that communion with the Roman See was the essential mark of all Christian Churches. That the imperial Government was well aware of the position of the pope among Christians derives additional confirmation from the saying of St. Cyprian that Decius would have sooner heard of the proclamation of a rival emperor than of the election of a new pope to fill the place of the martyredFabian (Ep. 55:9).





The primacy of St. Peter and the perpetuity of that primacy in the Roman See are dogmaticallydefined in the canons attached to the first two chapters of the Constitution "Pastor Aeternus":

• "If anyone shall say that Blessed Peter the Apostle was not constituted by Christ our Lord as chief of all the Apostles and the visible head of the whole Church militant: or that he did not receive directly and immediately from the same Lord Jesus Christ a primacy of true and proper jurisdiction, but one of honour only: let him be anathema."
• "If any one shall say that it is not by the institution of Christ our Lord Himself or by divinely established right that Blessed Peter has perpetual successors in his primacy over the universalChurch, or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of Blessed Peter in this same primacy. -- let him be anathema" (Denzinger-Bannwart, "Enchiridion", nn. 1823, 1825).

~Emperor Aurelian

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Pope <~ click.

Read the quotes of the ecf's as well...

Have you heard of the quartodeciman controversy?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Have you heard of the quartodeciman controversy?

Easter???

 

[Standing Up]

Although the church is "the pillar and foundation of the truth," nevertheless Jesus also revealed that in its ranks there may be - like apostle Judas the betrayer - those leaders who are "wicked servants."

Mathew 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household , to give them their food at the proper time?
46 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, `My master is delayed,'
49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken,
50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know,
51 and will punish him
​

Likewise, though Jesus calls the church the "the kingdom of heaven," nevertheless He reveals how it will be burdened with many who are wicked - straight until the Day of judgment.

Matthew 13:24 Another parable he put before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants of the householder came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?' 28 He said to them, `An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, `Then do you want us to go and gather them?' 29 But he said, `No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"
​

From this parable we know that quitting and leaving the church, because it sins, is not God's will: "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another-- and all the more as you see the Day approaching" (Hebrews 10:25). Rather than judging the church, we should learn how to deal with each "apostle Judas" as well as "evil men and impostors who will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived" (2Tim 3:13).

We could start by acknowledging that Christ Jesus still holds the keys per twice from Revelation.

 

[Standing Up]

I mentioned to the Catholics here that Constantine the Great was the Pagan High Priest until the day he died, but they did not want to believe me.

Very, very, doubtful that Constantine would claim that title.

 

[simonthezealot]

Me too, I am curious....

read some of the papal creeds oaths and presbytery oaths, while they may not say "king of the world" some of them certainly infer it
Start with pius iv...
I'd link some of it by my puter isnt working well tonight..

 

[JacktheCatholic]

read some of the papal creeds oaths and presbytery oaths, while they may not say "king of the world" some of them certainly infer it
Start with pius iv...
I'd link some of it by my puter isnt working well tonight..

Actually I do not think any of them say "king of the world" and that is why I am curious to see if a Pope ever used that title.

LOL! (at pic)

 

[Rick Otto]

credible...

 

[Standing Up]

-SNIP-



As the royal son of David, Christ is the owner of the key of David, but this doesn't mean he can't give it to Peter, as his "prime minister," the keys to his heavenly kingdom.

Ok, except that He doesn't per twice in Revelation.

In the passage to which Revelation 3:7 alludes, Isaiah 22:20-23, Eliakim is made master of the palace, a post roughly equivalent to prime minister. As the king's right-hand man, the master of the palace is given the "key of the House of David."

Keys symbolize authority, so bestowing the key to the House of David upon Eliakim is equivalent to giving him, as the king's duly appointed representative, authority over the kingdom.

Just for grins, please reread Isaiah 22 and keep in mind the singular day of the Lord with the truth that Christ Jesus per Revelation still retains the keys. See what you come up with.

Revelation 3:7 speaks of Jesus as "the holder of the key of David." Some argue this means he fulfills the role Eliakim foreshadowed in Isaiah 22:20-23. They claim this excludes a prophetic application of this text to Peter by Christ in Matthew 16:18-19.

There's a problem with this argument.

No, the problem is in understanding the when.

In Isaiah 22 Eliakim is master of the palace--the king isn't. Eliakim possesses the key of the kingdom not as its owner, but as one deputed to oversee the king's affairs. If we apply this to Christ, Then we must conclude he's not the true messianic king, merely his prime minister, the Messiah's chief representative!

Although Jesus is called the "holder of the key of David" in Revelation 3:7, he doesn't hold it as Eliakim did. As the son of David, Jesus is the heir to the throne of his ancestor (Luke 1:32-33). He really is the king, not the master of the king's palace, as was Eliakim. As king, Jesus is free to bestow the keys of his kingdom on whomever he wishes--without losing the authority those keys represent.
It's the Catholic position that this is precisely what Jesus does in Matthew 16:18-19. Peter identifies Jesus as the Messiah, which means, among other things, acknowledging his kingship. Christ then shows his kingly authority by bestowing on Peter something only the king could give--the keys of the kingdom of heaven--thus making Peter the messianic equivalent of Eliakim.




Actually it appears to have made it easier ...

See, you keep saying Jesus holds the key, aligning with Revelation. But then have to think Peter/successor holds the key. It's a question of when and what happens to the usurper you might want to consider.

 

[Rick Otto]

ipso facto, Jack.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

See, you keep saying Jesus holds the key, aligning with Revelation. But then have to think Peter/successor holds the key. It's a question of when and what happens to the usurper you might want to consider.

That must be a tough one...




Ok... here it is:

Matthew 16:19 NIV
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


and

Revelation 1:18 NIV
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.



Seems the Keys in Revelation are to Hell and the Keys in Matthew are to Heaven.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

ipso facto, Jack.

You like them huh...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just for grins, please reread Isaiah 22 and keep in mind the singular Day of the Lord with the truth that Christ Jesus per Revelation still retains the keys. See what you come up with.

Y@sha`yah 61:2 To call of Year of acceptance/07522 ratsown for YHWH, and a Day of Vengeance for our Elohiym to comfort all of mourning ones.

Reve 18:8 because of this in One Day shall be arriving the Blows of Her, death and mourning and famine, and in fire She shall be being burned-down that strong *Lord the God, the One-judging Her.

 

[Standing Up]

That must be a tough one...




Ok... here it is:

Matthew 16:19 NIV
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


and

Revelation 1:18 NIV
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.



Seems the Keys in Revelation are to Hell and the Keys in Matthew are to Heaven.

This has been on the thread as you know for days, and now you come up with a "stab in the dark".

Remember you/etc compare Mt. 16 with Is. 22 and the key of David correctly (one turn opens one turn closes). Thus

Rev. 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Christ Jesus retains the keys.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Y@sha`yah 61:2 To call of Year of acceptance/07522 ratsown for YHWH, and a Day of Vengeance for our Elohiym to comfort all of mourning ones.

Reve 18:8 because of this in One Day shall be arriving the Blows of Her, death and mourning and famine, and in fire She shall be being burned-down that strong *Lord the God, the One-judging Her.

You will like this:

Revelation 20:1-3. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a chain in his hand. And he held the dragon, that old serpent, which is called the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed a little season.
Those years wherein Satan is bound are in the first advent of Christ, even to the end of the age; and they are called a thousand, according to that mode of speaking, wherein a part is signified by the whole, just as is that passage, the word which He commanded for a thousand generations, although they are not a thousand. Moreover that he says, and he cast him into the abyss, he says this, because the devil, excluded from the hearts of believers, began to take possession of the wicked, in whose hearts, blinded day by day, he is shut up as if in a profound abyss. And he shut him up, says he, and put a seal upon him, that he should not deceive the nations until the thousand years should be finished. He shut the door upon him, it is said, that is, he forbade and restrained his seducing those who belong to Christ. Moreover, he put a seal upon him, because it is hidden who belong to the side of the devil, and who to that of Christ. For we know not of those who seem to stand whether they shall not fall, and of those who are down it is uncertain whether they may rise. Moreover, that he says that he is bound and shut up, that he may not seduce the nations, the nations signify the Church, seeing that of them it itself is formed, and which being seduced, he previously held until, he says, the thousand years should be completed, that is, what is left of the sixth day, to wit, of the sixth age, which subsists for a thousand years; after this he must be loosed for a little season. The little season signifies three years and six months, in which with all his power the devil will avenge himself under Antichrist against the Church. Finally, he says, after that the devil shall be loosed, and will seduce the nations in the whole world, and will entice war against the Church, the number of whose foes shall be as the sand of the sea.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm

 

[Standing Up]

Y@sha`yah 61:2 To call of Year of acceptance/07522 ratsown for YHWH, and a Day of Vengeance for our Elohiym to comfort all of mourning ones.

Reve 18:8 because of this in One Day shall be arriving the Blows of Her, death and mourning and famine, and in fire She shall be being burned-down that strong *Lord the God, the One-judging Her.

And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth: ...

Thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, Go, get thee unto this treasurer, [even] unto Shebna, which [is] over the house, [and say], ...

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: ...

In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that [was] upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken [it].

 

[JacktheCatholic]

And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth: ...

Thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, Go, get thee unto this treasurer, [even] unto Shebna, which [is] over the house, [and say], ...

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: ...

In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that [was] upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken [it].

Just pointing out what i found in the NIV for a word search...