Pope advocates directly disobedience to Jesus

[dad]

"Pope Francis on Sunday warned Catholics in Morocco against trying to convert others to boost their small numbers, during a rare visit by a pontiff to the North African country.

Speaking in Rabat’s cathedral on his second day in the Moroccan capital, Francis insisted trying to convert people to one’s own belief “always leads to an impasse.”

“Please, no proselytism!” he told an audience of around 400, who greeted the pope’s arrival by ululating and applauding, while hundreds more gathered outside the cathedral."

What Did Pope Francis Say in Morocco About Proselytism?

Jesus said

Mr 16:15 -And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Pretty cut and dry.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Pretty cut and dry.

Except for the rest of the article that explains why it really is not.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus was actually critical of proselytism. (Matt 23:15)

The Pope's statement is correct. Rhetorical trickery, enticements, or inducements are not the proper way to evangelize.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus was actually critical of proselytism. (Matt 23:15)

The Pope's statement is correct. Rhetorical trickery, enticements, or inducements is not the proper way to evangelize.

Jesus was critical of religious zealots entrapping folks in deception. He was never critical of obeying the great commission going out, preaching and seeing souls saved.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus was critical of religious zealots entrapping folks in deception. He was never critical of obeying the great commission going out, preaching and seeing souls saved.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

There are ethical and unethical ways to do that, however.

 

[Lost4words]

"Pope Francis on Sunday warned Catholics in Morocco against trying to convert others to boost their small numbers, during a rare visit by a pontiff to the North African country.

Speaking in Rabat’s cathedral on his second day in the Moroccan capital, Francis insisted trying to convert people to one’s own belief “always leads to an impasse.”

“Please, no proselytism!” he told an audience of around 400, who greeted the pope’s arrival by ululating and applauding, while hundreds more gathered outside the cathedral."

What Did Pope Francis Say in Morocco About Proselytism?

Jesus said

Mr 16:15 -And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Pretty cut and dry.

You got it totally wrong my friend.

 

[timewerx]

Jesus was actually critical of proselytism. (Matt 23:15)

The Pope's statement is correct. Rhetorical trickery, enticements, or inducements are not the proper way to evangelize.

I agree. Many does it like a leech that's hard to get off your skin....

While Jesus said in Matthew 10:14 to leave them if they reject you....The verse doesn't say, after they reject you a thousand times!

This way, you can cover more ground and you don't get yourselves murdered unecessarily.

 

[FireDragon76]

Proposed characteristics of proselytism, formulated by a working group between the Catholic Church and World Council of Churches:

1. Unfair criticism or caricaturing of the doctrines, beliefs, and practices of another church without attempting to understand or enter into dialogue on those issues.

2. Presenting one’s church or confession as “the true church” and its teachings as “the right faith” and the only way to salvation.

3. Portraying one’s own church as having high moral and spiritual status over against the perceived weaknesses and problems of other churches.

4. Offering humanitarian aid or educational opportunities as an inducement to join another church.

5. Using political, economic, cultural, and ethnic pressure or historical arguments to win others to one’s own church.

6. Taking advantage of lack of education or Christian instruction, which makes people vulnerable to changing their church allegiance.

7. Using physical violence or moral and psychological pressure to induce people to change their church affiliation.

8. Exploiting people’s loneliness, illness, distress or even disillusionment with their own church in order to “convert” them.

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/11/03/proselytism-vs-evangelization/

I believe those are largely accurate examples of proselytism, and at least give us its general shape. Proselytism is, in the end, about treating another human being as an object or means to an end, a feather in your cap, rather than treating another human being as a person worthy of love in their own right. It relies upon cheap, dirty, and sleazy tricks to convert people, which means the religion people are left with will invariably be tainted by sleaze.

 

[HTacianas]

"Pope Francis on Sunday warned Catholics in Morocco against trying to convert others to boost their small numbers, during a rare visit by a pontiff to the North African country.

Speaking in Rabat’s cathedral on his second day in the Moroccan capital, Francis insisted trying to convert people to one’s own belief “always leads to an impasse.”

“Please, no proselytism!” he told an audience of around 400, who greeted the pope’s arrival by ululating and applauding, while hundreds more gathered outside the cathedral."

What Did Pope Francis Say in Morocco About Proselytism?

Jesus said

Mr 16:15 -And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Pretty cut and dry.

They have been preaching the gospel there for two thousand years now.

Would you like them to run around to all the mosques and put Chick tracts on everyone's windshields?

 

[FireDragon76]

They have been preaching the gospel there for two thousand years now.

Would you like them to run around to all the mosques and put Chick tracts on everyone's windshields?

LOL

 

[Hank77]

Jesus was critical of religious zealots entrapping folks in deception. He was never critical of obeying the great commission going out, preaching and seeing souls saved.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

I agree. Here is a verse that I think makes it clear what Jesus is referring to in Matt. 23:15.

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

The 'kingdom of heaven' being life through Christ, the Gospel of Christ. The Pharisees wouldn't receive it and kept others that would have from receiving it, both Jews and proselytes.

 

[dad]

Except for the rest of the article that explains why it really is not.

Must have missed that, quote the relevant passage?

 

[dad]

Jesus was actually critical of proselytism. (Matt 23:15)

The Pope's statement is correct. Rhetorical trickery, enticements, or inducements are not the proper way to evangelize.

I am become all things to all men, that by all means some might be saved, to paraphrase Paul. To the Jew..a Jew. Obviously to the Arab, an Arab..etc etc etc. The gospel is the greatest enticement in the universe. I think we need to learn the difference between good and evil. Yes, it is wrong, for example to teach children wicked lifestyles and anti creation bogus science etc. No, it is not wrong to teach them the way they should go, and the knowledge of Jesus. Yes, the lying deceitful tongues of wicked people that seek to corrupt and convert people away from God is evil. No, preaching the good news of Salvation that Jesus gives all who ask is not evil. Etc.

Jesus was never critical of his followers preaching, only the devil's people yapping.

 

[dad]

There are ethical and unethical ways to do that, however.

In a country where doing what Jesus commanded is illegal we are to do it anyhow. Not to do so, as the pope advocated is unethical.

 

[dad]

I agree. Many does it like a leech that's hard to get off your skin....

While Jesus said in Matthew 10:14 to leave them if they reject you....The verse doesn't say, after they reject you a thousand times!

This way, you can cover more ground and you don't get yourselves murdered unecessarily.

Israel rejected Him and us. Where did it say not to preach there? the apostles were beaten and forbidden to preach the gospel, and what did they do? DAILY in the temple and in every house they ceased not to preach and to teach Jesus Christ!

 

[dad]

I agree. Many does it like a leech that's hard to get off your skin....

While Jesus said in Matthew 10:14 to leave them if they reject you....The verse doesn't say, after they reject you a thousand times!

This way, you can cover more ground and you don't get yourselves murdered unecessarily.

Israel rejected Him and us. Where did it say not to preach there? the apostles were beaten and forbidden to preach the gospel, and what did they do? DAILY in the temple and in every house they ceased not to preach and to teach Jesus Christ!

 

[dad]

Proposed characteristics of proselytism, formulated by a working group between the Catholic Church and World Council of Churches:




https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/11/03/proselytism-vs-evangelization/

I believe those are largely accurate examples of proselytism, and at least give us its general shape. Proselytism is, in the end, about treating another human being as an object or means to an end, a feather in your cap, rather than treating another human being as a person worthy of love in their own right. It relies upon cheap, dirty, and sleazy tricks to convert people, which means the religion people are left with will invariably be tainted by sleaze.

Let's look at the list.

" 1. Unfair criticism or caricaturing of the doctrines, beliefs, and practices of another church without attempting to understand or enter into dialogue on those issues."

The Muslim country is not another church. So that doesn't apply. Even if it were it wouldn't apply as we are to rebuke, extort, and teach those in error.


" Presenting one’s church or confession as “the true church” and its teachings as “the right faith” and the only way to salvation."

Obviously Jesus was the only way truth and the life. There is no other way. All that came before...or after...are thieves and liars and robbers. Now I am not sure anyone ought to be presenting some organization/church outfit there. Jesus never did that though nor His disciples. They offered Jesus, and any organizing was after the fact, and to help converts. However, I would think it is especially good advice in a Muslim country not to present a church organization known for it's homosexuality and pedophilia.

"4. Offering humanitarian aid or educational opportunities as an inducement to join another church."
Basically, the whole list doesn't apply to pagans as it is about churches.

Jesus fed thousands. That was humanitarian aid! It was also a great inducement. Christians are told to feed the poor and be charitable. Sorry, but that list is nonsense.

 

[dad]

They have been preaching the gospel there for two thousand years now.

Would you like them to run around to all the mosques and put Chick tracts on everyone's windshields?

Well, I don't want them buying people's kids for thirty pieces of silver for sex. One should use whatever one can wherever one can to preach the gospel. Obviously in many countries this is done very discreetly. But it is done. Those who suggest not to do it should be exposed as false teachers.

 

[Arcangl86]

Catholic evangelism has always been more about action then words. Catholics evangelize by caring for the poor and needy, and when asked why, they point to Christ. Actions speak louder then words. Catholics evangelize by showing that Christ changes lives, not by trying to scare people into submission.

 

[dad]

Catholic evangelism has always been more about action then words. Catholics evangelize by caring for the poor and needy, and when asked why, they point to Christ. Actions speak louder then words. Catholics evangelize by showing that Christ changes lives, not by trying to scare people into submission.

That is a two edged sword. When we point people to us, rather than Jesus, they look at your sins too. In the case of Catholics, people I know think of that as sort of a byword, or euphemism for pedophilia. (though that is not really fair for the average person in the outfit-nevertheless it is my experience that is what comes to mind more often than not). Then there are many who notice great cathedrals in dirt poor countries, and wonder why the disparity. I agree. Now having a soup kitchen may be well and good, and probably also subsidized by some government, but sorry, it does not really preach the gospel.