Polygamy problematic?.

[Eloy Craft]

The original design was that man lives in symbiosis with the Earth...
Man and woman are to live in symbiosis with each other.

"It is not good for man to be alone".

Sin sure did cause alot of division. The symbioses of the body and soul is damaged too.

 

[eleos1954]

Let’s look at what God says:
‘Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh’ Genesis 2:24 (KJV) - note the emphasis on singular (one wife, not wives).

New Testament passages:

1 Timothy 3:2 (KJV) ‘A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

And

1 Timothy 3:12 (KJV)
‘Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.’

Also, a study of the marriages in the Old Testament where a man had more than one wife shows clearly the problems that were created by going against God’s Word. You don’t need to look any further than Abraham, Sarah and Hagar and the mix-ups that this polygamous marriage brought: the world is still paying for this mistake now, centuries later.

Also, look at the issues with Jacob, Leah and Rachel (although Jacob was tricked by his father in law, Laban); the jealousy Between the two women created havoc in that marriage.

Any man (or woman, for that matter) who finds polygamy acceptable does not have a sound understanding of God’s word. It was never God’s intention for marriage to be anything other than one man and one wife.

Exactly! God is long suffering/patient ..... with things men do to a certain degree(s) ... but often what they do is not with out consequence .... He chastises those He loves.

 

[HelenScot]

Exactly! God is long suffering/patient ..... with things men do to a certain degree(s) ... but often what they do is not with out consequence .... He chastises those He loves.

Yes!!!
So glad to find someone on this forum who accepts and appreciates the principle of God’s chastisement (yipee!) - it’s always for our GOOD!!

Hebrews 12:5-8 (KJV): 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

[eleos1954]

Yes!!!
So glad to find someone on this forum who accepts and appreciates the principle of God’s chastisement (yipee!) - it’s always for our GOOD!!

Hebrews 12:5-8 (KJV): 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

and .... AMEN! ;o)

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Yes!!!
So glad to find someone on this forum who accepts and appreciates the principle of God’s chastisement (yipee!) - it’s always for our GOOD!!

Hebrews 12:5-8 (KJV): 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Most Christians in my experience believe God moulds us don't they? Is your experience different?

 

[Eloy Craft]

The prophecy surrounds the women begging the man for marriage...not the man persuing the wives. In thinking it was in either Zachariah or Ezekiel...

The number of a man 6. Those women aren't right. Are they wanting all of them to be married to him or are they competing for his hand? I mean his status.

 

[JohnDB]

The number of a man 6. Those women aren't right. Are they wanting all of them to be married to him or are they competing for his hand? I mean his status.

No...they are all wanting to be married to him...this is the Old Testament and polygamy was common amongst the Jews. It was a status symbol to have several wives.
Look at the end of Job...
Job became blessed with many more wives and children. (Although I would think of that many wives as a curse myself)

To each their own IMHO.

 

[bèlla]

Ann,

I knew many people who practiced polygamy or desired to do so. I’ve had an opportunity to discuss the subject intimately with men and women between the ages of 20 and 50. The majority were unbelievers but they all desired traditional relationships with a male head of household.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, polygamy was his idea. She went along out of love, deference, etc. Few would choose the same for themselves. The women struggled with insecurity, anger and repressed emotions. Most questioned their partner’s desire for them (at some point) and their worthiness. It was difficult to hear.

The men championed the practice and extolled its merits. It was Mars and Venus in the flesh. Some were more hands-on than others. Or they delegated responsibility to women. Flat relationships and hierarchies were represented in equal measure.

You need distinct personalities to pull this off. Subjugation is a must or it will never work. Developing group think is necessary. But the hive always places him above themselves. He’s king. That’s a constant and one of the reasons men enjoy it. Their adulation and respect feeds his ego.

While some find happiness, I’ve seen the alternative and the fallout isn’t pretty. It isn’t a lifestyle I would choose or enter of my own volition. Nor would most.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I was having a discussion with someone who holds to Polygamy as being unproblematic. He asked me why I thought it was. I basically said it would hurt the wife by viewing her as not enough for him and would create a caste system. This was his response. How would you tackle this in a biblical way?

"According To that reasoning, having more than one child is basically saying that the firstborn wasn't enough. Since scripture is ripe with sibling rivalry (Cain and Abel, Ismael and Isaac, Jacob and Esau), one can construct a religion trying to correct that tendency, by espousing a one child policy; then its adherents can come and ask questions similar to yours, about why, throughout scripture, God seems OK with having more than one offspring"

Sarah and Hagar, Kings who went astray due to multiple wives.

Read books by Children of plural marriage. I can tell you first hand it is a nightmare.

Many older male children are made to leave.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Secret Lives of Saints: Child Brides and Lost Boys in Canada's Polygamous Mormon Sect Paperback – International Edition, January 6, 2009
by Daphne Bramham (Author)

 

[JohnDB]

Sarah and Hagar, Kings who went astray due to multiple wives.

Read books by Children of plural marriage. I can tell you first hand it is a nightmare.

Many older male children are made to leave.

You are talking about FLDS...they have made polygamy have a horrible connotation...

Being all about power and control and of course sexual deviancy...

But scriptural and biblical polygamy was about helping and assisting single women who would otherwise have no hope.

It wasn't about dominance and control or sexual deviancy.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The number of a man 6. Those women aren't right. Are they wanting all of them to be married to him or are they competing for his hand? I mean his status.

Isaiah 3-4
Easy-to-Read Version
3 Understand what I am telling you: The Lord God All-Powerful will take away everything Judah and Jerusalem depend on. He will take away all the food and water. 2 He will take away all the heroes and soldiers. He will take away all the judges, the prophets, the fortunetellers, and the elders. 3 He will take away the army officers and important officials. He will take away the skilled counselors, the magicians, and those who try to tell the future.

4 He says, “I will put young boys in charge of you. They will be your leaders. 5 The people will turn against each other. Young people will not respect those who are older. The common people will not respect important leaders.”

6 At that time a man will grab one of his brothers from his own family and tell him, “You have a coat,[a] so you will be our leader. You will be the leader over all these ruins.”

7 But the brother will refuse and say, “I cannot help you. I don’t have enough food or clothes for my own family. You will not make me your leader.”

8 This will happen because Jerusalem has stumbled, and Judah has fallen. They turned against the Lord. They said and did things against him, right in front of his glorious eyes.

9 The look on their faces shows that they are guilty. They are like the people of Sodom; they don’t care who sees their sin. But it will be very bad for them. They will get what they deserve.

10 Tell the good people who do what is right that good things will happen to them. They will receive a reward for what they do. 11 But it will be very bad for wicked people, because they, too, will get what they deserve. They will get what they did to others. 12 Even children will defeat my people, and women will rule over them.

My people, your guides lead you the wrong way, and they destroy the path you should follow.

God’s Decision About His People
13 Look, the Lord is standing to judge his people. 14 The Lord is ready to present his case against the elders and leaders of his people.

He says, “You people have burned the vineyard, and what you stole from the poor is still in your houses. 15 What gives you the right to hurt my people? What gives you the right to push the faces of the poor into the dirt?” The Lord God All-Powerful said this.

16 The Lord says, “The women in Zion have become very proud. They walk around with their heads in the air, acting like they are better than other people. They flirt with their eyes and make tinkling sounds with their ankle bracelets as they take their quick little steps.”

17 The Lord will put sores on the heads of those women in Zion. The Lord will make their heads bald. 18 Then the Lord will take away everything they are proud of: the beautiful ankle bracelets, the necklaces that look like the sun and the moon, 19 the earrings, bracelets, and veils, 20 the scarves, the ankle chains, the cloth belts worn around their waists, the bottles of perfume, the charms,[c] 21 the signet rings, and the nose rings, 22 the fine dresses, robes, veils, and purses, 23 the mirrors, linen dresses, turbans, and long shawls.

24 Those women now have sweet-smelling perfume, but it will get moldy and stink. Now they wear belts, but then they will have only ropes to wear. Now they have their hair fixed in fancy ways, but then their heads will be shaved—they will have no hair.[d] Now they have party dresses, but then they will have only mourning clothes. They have beauty marks on their faces now, but then they will have another mark. It will be a mark burned into their skin to show that they are slaves.

25 Your men will be killed with swords. Your heroes will die in war. 26 There will be crying and sadness in the meeting places by the city gates. Jerusalem will sit there empty, like a woman who has lost everything to thieves and robbers and now just sits on the ground and cries.

4 At that time seven women will grab one man and say, “Please marry us! We will supply our own food and make our own clothes. You won’t have to do anything else if you let us wear your name and take away our shame.”

2 At that time the Lord’s plant[e] will be very beautiful and glorious. The people in Israel who survived will be very proud of what the land grows. 3 And all those who are left in Zion and Jerusalem will be called holy. Their names were on the list of people in Jerusalem who were allowed to live.

4 The Lord will wash away the filth[f] from the daughters of Zion.[g] He will wash away the blood from Jerusalem. With a spirit of judgment that burns like fire, he will make everything pure. 5 Then the Lord will create a cloud of smoke in the day and a bright flame of fire[h] at night over every building and over every meeting of the people on the mountain of Zion. And there will be a covering over everyone for protection. 6 It will be a shelter to protect the people from the heat of the sun and from all kinds of storms and rain.

In the context, the text does not support plural marriage, just how desperate the situation is.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

You are talking about FLDS...they have made polygamy have a horrible connotation...

Being all about power and control and of course sexual deviancy...

But scriptural and biblical polygamy was about helping and assisting single women who would otherwise have no hope.

It wasn't about dominance and control or sexual deviancy.

I speak from experience as a former Sexton. FLDS was the group that was in the news. The problems are common among LDS who practice plural marriage.

Google Joseph Smith's wives of other men

also, google early mormons sex with minors

You will see the sexual perversions of plural marriage.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Six Mormon families suing LDS church over alleged cover up of child sexual abuse

Satanic Ritual Abuse and Mormonism

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...hUKEwiC0-eU28vrAhVCR60KHcx3BCkQ4dUDCA0&uact=5
Utah Lighthouse Ministry

 

[Daniel Marsh]

#80 Messenger, Ritualistic Child Abuse and the Mormon Church

• #81 Messenger, Mormon Leaders Fight Satanic Infiltration

• #91 Messenger, Mormonism's Problem with Child Sexual Abuse

• #91 Messenger, Joseph Smith and Women

• #91 Messenger, The Mormon Alliance

• #91 Messenger, The Fall of George P. Lee

• #92 Messenger, Sexual Abuse Update

• #94 Messenger, Marrying a Child

• #97 Messenger, Incest and Abuse

• #97 Messenger, Polygamy in Other Areas

• #97 Messenger, ABUSE — SPECIAL REPORT
  • $3 Million Dollar Settlement in Oregon
  • The Toombs Case
  • Utah State Law on Reporting
  • LDS Church Warned of Problems
  • Help Line for Victims or Mormon Clergy?
  • The Franco Case and the Utah Supreme Court Decision

• #100 Messenger, Polygamist Abuse Cases

• Utah Lighthouse Ministry: Topical Index A-G

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Issue 91 - Salt Lake City Messenger

 

[Daniel Marsh]

No...they are all wanting to be married to him...this is the Old Testament and polygamy was common amongst the Jews. It was a status symbol to have several wives.
Look at the end of Job...
Job became blessed with many more wives and children. (Although I would think of that many wives as a curse myself)

To each their own IMHO.

Job 42
The Lord Gives Job’s Wealth Back

7 After the Lord finished talking to Job, he spoke to Eliphaz from Teman. He said, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you did not tell the truth about me, as my servant Job did. 8 So now, Eliphaz, get seven bulls and seven rams. Take them to my servant Job. Kill them and offer them as a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will answer his prayer. Then I will not give you the punishment you deserve. You should be punished, because you were very foolish. You did not say what is right about me, as my servant Job did.”

9 So Eliphaz from Teman, Bildad from Shuah, and Zophar from Naamah obeyed the Lord. Then the Lord answered Job’s prayer.

10 Job prayed for his friends, and the Lord made Job successful again. The Lord gave him twice as much as he had before. 11 Then all his brothers and sisters and all the people who knew him before came to his house. They all ate a big meal with him. They comforted him and were sorry that the Lord had brought him so much trouble. Each person gave Job a piece of silver and a gold ring.

12 The Lord blessed Job with even more than he had in the beginning. Job got 14,000 sheep, 6000 camels, 2000 oxen, and 1000 female donkeys. 13 He also got seven sons and three daughters. 14 He named the first daughter Jemimah and the second daughter Keziah. He named the third daughter Keren Happuch. 15 Job’s daughters were among the most beautiful women in all the country. And, like their brothers, they each got a share of their father’s property.

16 So Job lived for 140 years more. He lived to see his children, his grandchildren, his great-grandchildren, and his great-great-grandchildren. 17 Job lived to be a very old man who had lived a good, long life.

Where exactly does it say Job had many wives?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Part of my life I was raised in the Sextons and offshoot of King Strang of Beaver Island. Believe me when I say you do not want to be a child of such a group. It is common for older men to have sex with underage girls. The un-chosen male children once they get around 14 to 16 are made to leave the cult, many into the streets. Google lost boys mormon sects to learn about that. The event that gets them kicked out is trying to make it with a sister the Father wants. My Father was murdered going after wife 18.

Here is an example, ""Lost boys" is a term used for young men who have been excommunicated or pressured to leave polygamous Mormon fundamentalist groups such as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS)."

I was chosen as the next prophet and disband the sect.

 

[Rajni]

It seems like it is far from God's ideal, right?
Paul’s description of marriage as a picture of Christ and the church is seriously compromised by polygamy.

Although... the church is made up of more than just one person. So technically it could be viewed as Christ practicing polygamy Himself. Christ and the church (group of people; more than one spouse). Rather than polygamy compromising that arrangement, it actually illustrates it.


-

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Seems like a problem with those who take scripture alone as having the only meaningful answer. If you were to judge the question solely by scripture you could come to no definite conclusion about which marriage system is preferred. Do you argue from Adam and Eve that we have an example of the prototypical sexual relationship between men or women? Or do you argue from the example of Jacob? God doesn't condemn the latter and it was through that odd family the twelve tribes existed.

I take seriously the Church's position on this issue which seems to have been from the apostolic era monogamy as the standard. That this is an unwritten and expected Christian practice, long established uncontroversial. The only groups to challenge this are weird heretical groups which should say something to their legitimacy.

Explanations abound, theologically as to why this is the case, but isn't it enough that it's been established Christian practice for as long as we can tell? Whenever it was brought up it was regularly condemned, as far as I know.