Oh. It looked like you might have been trying to hide a higher level of obesity in your own country by pointing fingers elsewhere.
So, I guess, using this logic... You can just tell the person, "I'm going to steal your car" and it's OK?Actually the opposite is closer the truth. Compare this to a husband who goes out of town on a business trip, spends a night with a prostitute or a loose woman at the hotel bar, then it is over and never spoken of again. He goes home to his wife, carries on as if it had never happened, and carries the dark secret to the grave with him. Both have broken their vows, but who has shown greater disrespect to the marriage covenant?
Concealing your extramarital trysts, in fact, is evidence that even though you haven't honored your marriage vows, at least they don't mean nothing to you. Trying to keep the appearance of a monogamous marriage implies seeing some value in it. This, of course, is what polyamory aims to end - it aims to create a culture where monogamy isn't valued.
That might be true of some Reformed influenced groups but has never been true for Catholics. Oh, but then there were some Lutheran groups who would not allow German Lutherans to marry Norwegian Lutherans.of the same skin color
Sorry.. but none of this means "Lost Souls".... All are redeemable... and forgivable.... No souls need to be lost..When are they going to address obesity/gluttony?
That's over 70 million (21% of adults in the U.S.) living in open sin.
By contrast, 4.5% of the population identify as LGBT.
That's a serious problem and a huge imbalance of attention and outrage.
Forget the bedroom, there are more souls lost at the dinner table and drive-thru before we even enter the bedroom.
Fat people are looked down on by everyone, the medical field, all the neighbors, it's not socially acceptable to be fat. And you want the Church to pile on? Not to accompany these people in their struggles?I did not say that. If they have a medical reason then obviously that matters. However, as someone with hypothyroidism myself, the whole point of medication is to bring back your hormones to normal levels which means metabolic issues are seldom a problem.
I was directing my criticism towards those that don't have medical problems (the majority). It has become so normalised in society today that many don't see wrong in it and certainly don't see that they share the same fate as any other open, unapologetic sinner.
This is a problem that exists in part, in my opinion, because of the hyper-fixation on specific sins. When a Pastor preaches less and less about the personal journey with Christ and how we ought to live our life according to Scripture and God's desire and more and more about 'what's wrong with society' or 'the family unit being under attack'... those have no edifying value to the individual. Why are we pointing out what a tiny minority are doing instead of highlighting what a very large number of people are doing?
It's reckless. That kind of preaching is nothing but standing by the wide gate, shepherding people through.
You don’t believe Christian, especially Biblical and creedal churches should be making clear the sanctity of the God ordained monogamous one man one woman marriage?I think all that needs to be said is that the idea of a 'sexual frontier' says a lot about the church today.
What finger pointing? Seems you are accusing pastors of not dealing with all issues in the life of the church. What makes you think they don’t?My point wasn't to detract from its necessity, but to highlight the seemingly wilful inaction against other sins which statistically speaking 1/5 are likely guilty of themselves and see no wrong in it whilst pointing the finger at others.
Another red herring.of the same skin color
Neither the OP nor did I make such a claim. Perhaps read the article title and article again and respond to it.that marriage has never been something Christians get to define and then dictate to other people?
It seems some don’t want to address the OP and somehow this thread is about gluttony. Lol.As I have had to say a few times now, obesity is often a metabolic thing and not a gluttony thing. Sometimes it is a gluttony thing. Sometimes not. Many overweight people eat like birds. Many thin people chow down like hippos.
Article from Christianity Today:
A pastor recently told me (Preston) about Tyler and Amanda (names changed), high-school sweethearts raised in Christian homes, living in the Bible belt. After getting married, they seemed to be living the American dream with a house, good jobs, and two kids. Then Jon, a friend of Tyler’s, began living with their family. Amanda developed a close relationship with him, but their flirtation soon developed into something more, and Jon and Amanda proposed to Tyler that they begin exploring polyamory, with Amanda adding Jon as a significant other. They also encouraged Tyler to develop a relationship with another woman he’d met at the gym. He agreed.
When Tyler and Amanda came out as polyamorous, their parents were shocked. What seemed like a fringe practice of the sexual revolution had settled into the heartland of Middle America.
Making the situation even more complex, Tyler and Amanda sought counseling from a Christian counselor who advocated polyamory. Tyler’s parents were disturbed by what their son and daughter-in-law heard there: “It’s only adultery or cheating if someone is kept in the dark. If you are open and honest, this is a God-honoring relationship. And this is good for the kids! It takes a village to raise a child, so a polyamorous relationship actually brings more support and ‘family’ into your kids’ lives, much like the extended families in the past.”
Tyler’s parents wanted to know how to respond to their children but also wanted to know how the church should respond. Should Jon be welcomed into the church as an addition to Tyler and Amanda’s family? In a world where many sexual choices and identities are accepted, polyamory is often still stigmatized, so Tyler’s parents didn’t know who to talk to or where to turn.
An Introduction to Polyamory
For many Christians, polyamory seems so extreme and rare that there’s no need to talk about it. But it is much more common than some people think, and it’s growing in popularity. According to one estimate, “as many as 5 percent of Americans are currently in relationships involving consensual nonmonogamy,” which is about the same percentage as those who identify as LGBTQ. A recent study, published in a peer-reviewed journal, found that 20 percent of Americans have been in a consensual non-monogamous relationship at least once in their life. Another survey showed that nearly 70 percent of non-religious Americans between the ages of 24 and 35 believe that polyamory is okay, even if it’s not their cup of tea. And perhaps most shocking of all, according to sociologist Mark Regnerus in Cheap Sex, roughly 24 percent of church-going people believe that consensual polyamorous relationships are morally permissible.
More at the link: Polyamory: Pastors’ Next Sexual Frontier
I think some Christians who supported same-sex marriage scoffed at other Christians when they said "this just opens the door for polygamy and other non-traditional unions." Well it is showing up in a church near you.
Marriage is a small issue for a pastor and the church?It's because this is yet another example of a smaller issue taking eyes away from much bigger issues.
Or maybe the finger wagging folks are well fit. Would that make those finger wagging folks more just in the finger wagging?That is a massive problem that needs addressing. Because those that sit there wagging their finger at homosexuals or non-traditional marriage arrangements whilst obese themselves, well, they are destined for the same fate as those they're condemning, yet no one wants to raise the subject.
You're right, but the place to raise that issue is in a thread about gluttony.It's because this is yet another example of a smaller issue taking eyes away from much bigger issues.
I've never understood the preoccupation with what goes on behind the bedroom door. It is spoken about far more often with far more urgency than other issues, like obesity/gluttony.
So my point and question is why do people labour so fervently to highlight an issue that encompasses 4.5% of the U.S. population when there's another sin that encompasses 21% of the U.S. population?
My guess is that it's easier to point the finger at other sins as a means of deflecting from our own. And in terms of obesity/gluttony, it's become so commonplace that most people don't consider it a sin at all.
That is a massive problem that needs addressing. Because those that sit there wagging their finger at homosexuals or non-traditional marriage arrangements whilst obese themselves, well, they are destined for the same fate as those they're condemning, yet no one wants to raise the subject.
We are not born sexually motivated. There is no such thing as a gay baby or for that matter a straight baby. It's just a baby with no sexual appetite.Stuff I'm spewing?
So you are saying 'marriage equality' is not about the ability of a bisexual person to find fulfillment in marrying at least one man AND at least one woman? I'm spewing?
I think what he's saying is that hiding sin still shows that we agree it's still sin but when we all agree that it's ok and do it in the open this a greater moral problem.So, I guess, using this logic... You can just tell the person, "I'm going to steal your car" and it's OK?
Or, "insert sin here" but make sure you tell the person you are sinning against.. and it's all better?
Seriously.... This is whacked. No other words for it.
It is illuminating just how far gone the establishment of Christianity is and how quickly it has happened. Like greased lightning.I
Yet here we are again...Discussing a pastoral and church moral issue on the sanctity of marriage and fellow Christians do not want to address the actual issue at hand.
I think what he's saying is that hiding sin still shows that we agree it's still sin but when we all agree that it's ok and do it in the open this a greater moral problem.
I think then people who want a civil ceremony could have that and think what they want. And Christians could join in matrimony. Call them two separate things that only superficially look like each other.As a Catholic, no way - I can't imagine this kind of lifestyle fitting into God's view on what the SACRAMENT of HOLY matrimony is supposed to be (LOUD SCREAMING WORDS on purpose).
We have close friends (I grew up with the husband) who are married (in the legal sense - they weren't married in the Church (or any church), aren't Christians, etc) and have an open marriage. She does stuff with another close friend (who I went to school with too), but I'm not sure about the husband. All I see is that he seems very angry about her "getting action" (although he doesn't care about her and the other friend begin together - they're besties). But I wouldn't say that their open marriage is what hurts them the most (there's more baggage there too).
I will say that my gay friend and his significant other (I won't call him a husband, spouse, etc - as I don't see them as such even if they are legally "married") have a better relationship together than those with an open "marriage".
Honestly, I wish the government would get rid of marriage - call of them civil unions with spouses having rights. Save marriage for religious context only.
Coming from a country where polygamy is a traditional practice and still practiced today, I can practically guarantee that polyamorous relationships are going to be much more abusive in all sorts of ways. It doesn't take a lot to see how much more abusive this could be. There's a reason why more sophisticated cultures jettisoned polyamory, polygamy, and so forth. Unfortunately, it takes at least a generation to prove it, and by then everyone is so hurt and broken that they just keep the hurting going.Article from Christianity Today:
A pastor recently told me (Preston) about Tyler and Amanda (names changed), high-school sweethearts raised in Christian homes, living in the Bible belt. After getting married, they seemed to be living the American dream with a house, good jobs, and two kids. Then Jon, a friend of Tyler’s, began living with their family. Amanda developed a close relationship with him, but their flirtation soon developed into something more, and Jon and Amanda proposed to Tyler that they begin exploring polyamory, with Amanda adding Jon as a significant other. They also encouraged Tyler to develop a relationship with another woman he’d met at the gym. He agreed.
When Tyler and Amanda came out as polyamorous, their parents were shocked. What seemed like a fringe practice of the sexual revolution had settled into the heartland of Middle America.
Making the situation even more complex, Tyler and Amanda sought counseling from a Christian counselor who advocated polyamory. Tyler’s parents were disturbed by what their son and daughter-in-law heard there: “It’s only adultery or cheating if someone is kept in the dark. If you are open and honest, this is a God-honoring relationship. And this is good for the kids! It takes a village to raise a child, so a polyamorous relationship actually brings more support and ‘family’ into your kids’ lives, much like the extended families in the past.”
Tyler’s parents wanted to know how to respond to their children but also wanted to know how the church should respond. Should Jon be welcomed into the church as an addition to Tyler and Amanda’s family? In a world where many sexual choices and identities are accepted, polyamory is often still stigmatized, so Tyler’s parents didn’t know who to talk to or where to turn.
An Introduction to Polyamory
For many Christians, polyamory seems so extreme and rare that there’s no need to talk about it. But it is much more common than some people think, and it’s growing in popularity. According to one estimate, “as many as 5 percent of Americans are currently in relationships involving consensual nonmonogamy,” which is about the same percentage as those who identify as LGBTQ. A recent study, published in a peer-reviewed journal, found that 20 percent of Americans have been in a consensual non-monogamous relationship at least once in their life. Another survey showed that nearly 70 percent of non-religious Americans between the ages of 24 and 35 believe that polyamory is okay, even if it’s not their cup of tea. And perhaps most shocking of all, according to sociologist Mark Regnerus in Cheap Sex, roughly 24 percent of church-going people believe that consensual polyamorous relationships are morally permissible.
More at the link: Polyamory: Pastors’ Next Sexual Frontier
I think some Christians who supported same-sex marriage scoffed at other Christians when they said "this just opens the door for polygamy and other non-traditional unions." Well it is showing up in a church near you.
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