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Adoni1
Guest
I'm Pre Trib. Don't want to go through it. I believe it will all pan out.
His Alone
Stay Humble
His Alone
Stay Humble
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D
der kranich
Guest
...translation of the saints is not a magical disappearance of faithful believers from earth. It IS the final day, the bodily resurrection.
The only thing left behind is reprobate mankind and angelic beings. Where they are left behind to is the lake of fire.
The only thing left behind is reprobate mankind and angelic beings. Where they are left behind to is the lake of fire.
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M
Mont1120
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To believe in the post trib rapture, if we indeed leave the earth at all until we die.
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this was the judgement."
So, if we are raptured, when exactly do we die? Where do we get off not having to bear the same sentence that all mankind before us has paid? Wishful thinking I would surmise.
II Thess. 2: "Let no man decieve you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
That would mean to me that Christians will be here on earth when satan is cast back here from heaven, and if that is true, doesn't that wreck the timeline set forth in Revelations as far as Christians being raptured before the coming of satan?
Then in II Thess. 2:9 says, "Even him, whose coming is AFTER the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders."
Does that not show Christ will come after satan has given it a last final try?
Then, in I Thess: 4:16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
If I am correct, that should read the last trump as translated in the KJV, and that would mean Christ is coming at the last sounding of the 7 trumpets, which leaves us here to deal with the seven seals, the seven vials, and the seven trumpets. We will be here.
What I would really like someone to tell me is if the endtimes roll upon us soon, exactly what has ANY of us here done to deserve the gift of riding away on the clouds to heaven, without paying the price. What works have we performed that would make us better then those Christians who have walked before us and paid dearly for their faith?
Yes, we have grace, but Paul clearly wrote, what is faith without works? When were we, in this day and age, refined in the fire? We have had it pretty good for many years now in this country, and we have paid God back by falling so far away from the truth, I'm sure His anger towards us is searing.
So, if you look inside your heart, see if you indeed deserve that grace, it will be there for you as it always was, but there is a price for it. Christ himself paid the ultimate, in a horrible manner too, and I think it will come upon us to test our faith also, whether in death or witness, in a world that will hate us as much as it hates Christ.
Jack
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this was the judgement."
So, if we are raptured, when exactly do we die? Where do we get off not having to bear the same sentence that all mankind before us has paid? Wishful thinking I would surmise.
II Thess. 2: "Let no man decieve you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
That would mean to me that Christians will be here on earth when satan is cast back here from heaven, and if that is true, doesn't that wreck the timeline set forth in Revelations as far as Christians being raptured before the coming of satan?
Then in II Thess. 2:9 says, "Even him, whose coming is AFTER the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders."
Does that not show Christ will come after satan has given it a last final try?
Then, in I Thess: 4:16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
If I am correct, that should read the last trump as translated in the KJV, and that would mean Christ is coming at the last sounding of the 7 trumpets, which leaves us here to deal with the seven seals, the seven vials, and the seven trumpets. We will be here.
What I would really like someone to tell me is if the endtimes roll upon us soon, exactly what has ANY of us here done to deserve the gift of riding away on the clouds to heaven, without paying the price. What works have we performed that would make us better then those Christians who have walked before us and paid dearly for their faith?
Yes, we have grace, but Paul clearly wrote, what is faith without works? When were we, in this day and age, refined in the fire? We have had it pretty good for many years now in this country, and we have paid God back by falling so far away from the truth, I'm sure His anger towards us is searing.
So, if you look inside your heart, see if you indeed deserve that grace, it will be there for you as it always was, but there is a price for it. Christ himself paid the ultimate, in a horrible manner too, and I think it will come upon us to test our faith also, whether in death or witness, in a world that will hate us as much as it hates Christ.
Jack
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carma
Guest
Paul also said that some will be alive at the return of Christ. What about them?
Is God going to kill them first?
Is God going to kill them first?
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J
JoeyCarmen
Guest
Hmmmm could of swore Jesus paid death
for us on the cross. Did Enoch die? Or how 'bout Elijah?
Appointments can be adjusted, I'm pretty sure God has the authority to do that.
God is not a Genie in a bottle.
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carma
Guest
Again....
Is God going to kill all the survivors when Christ returns?
Paul said that there would be some alive even at the return of Christ (he was not speaking of the rapture).
Is God going to kill all the survivors when Christ returns?
Paul said that there would be some alive even at the return of Christ (he was not speaking of the rapture).
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H
Habakkuk3
Guest
Joey - punch the top one and barely dimple the botom one - then go mail it in from India!
God doesn't kill all the survivors, Carma, judges them as sheep or goats.
This is a metaphor, He doesn't change them into animals like Circe, but those
"metaphorically referred to as sheep"
populate the earth in Millennium.
God doesn't kill all the survivors, Carma, judges them as sheep or goats.
This is a metaphor, He doesn't change them into animals like Circe, but those
"metaphorically referred to as sheep"
populate the earth in Millennium.
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I started this thread four months ago and haven't been back in this forum much since. I can't believe its still going. It has to be the oldest thread going...
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imafungi1
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I think it keeps getting bumped whenever someone votes . . . not necessarily posts.
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Ohhhhhh, okay. I thought Carma done gone and got mystical again and she was levitatin' it back to the top. Silly me.
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Hmmmm..there's that pan-trib again. I had that leveled as an insult against me a week or so back.
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Z
Zafana
Guest
The Bible tells you how the END will come;
Jesus said it is finished on the cross and this is the tribulation; crucified with Christ. So that is the END. From that point on, we are in the resurrection, or post trib.
So the end is at the end of the sin nature, or the end of darkness or the end of Satan. After this Jesus said, "INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT" so now God and Christ Jesus are ONE again in spirit. Jesus Christ commited his spirit to God once again, and once they are ONE, they are one and can not be divided anymore. They were divided while the VAIL is still between the holy place (where we first see the abomination for desolation---the sin nature or man of lawlessness is revealed first, which is the ego or that part of us that thinks it is God, set up in the temple of God).
Jesus life shows us the process of the tribulation; He begins his ministry after he discovers ISRAEL the Dove who is also the Holy spirit or Shekinah landing on him after he descended for DEATH of his sin nature in the Jordan; he said this is to show all righteousness. So the descension which is the WATER BAPTISM is first; what is water baptism??? We become completely immersed in the word of God which DROWNS out the wicked one, the sin nature, the man of lawlessness. As the days of Noah so will be the coming of the "son of man"; we were doing all the normal things we are supposed to do and SUDDENLY destruction will come. This falling into the Jordan-descending to death or the PIT, wherein we fall suddenly, just as we are saying peace peace, will come at our appointed hour and Jesus said to be ready always for we dont know the HOUR our father has appointed our visitation.
When we rise we know we rise as Israel, the true soul and inheritance of God. Israel is the treasure "BURIED" in the field and the field is the world and when you descend to the buried place, death, you find the treasure.
Now the spirit takes Jesus into the wilderness just as the WINGS OF THE EAGLE take the woman _Israel into the wilderness after she gives birth to the malechild-the begotten of God. This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased; here he goes to a place PREPARED FOR HER while Satan gets to cast out the flood (water baptism of the word he tries to stumble you with). The woman Israel who is on earth or the kingdom on earth--OPENS HER MOUTH and swallows the flood of the word and CONFESSES unto salvation. Im showing you how to put the scriptures together here.
This is a place prepared while she is confessing unto salvation and her TONGUE IS BEING PURIFIED after the end of the sin nature to receive the PURE WORD OF GOD; Just as the ISRAELITES had to cross the RED SEA (water baptism) to get to the wilderness of Sinai to later come to the MOUNT to get the FIRE baptism, the TEN COMMANDMENTS or the LAW, which we will get when it is circumcised into our HEART through our mouth for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Hebrews tells us not to be afraid to approach ZION like Israel was afraid of Sinai; this time we want to get through the chastisment of a son and remember, we know we are sons of God after we are baptised by the water and have ascended as ISRAEL. Exodus 4:22 Israel is Gods son. Israel fell for the sake of the gentiles Romans 11; is the elect of God for the fathers sake. ALL Israel will be saved as they approach Zion.
it is a frightening thing to stand in the presence of the LIVING GOD For our God is a consuming FIRE (here is that baptism of getting the pure language in the upper room which is the upper world of Zion) spiritually we have to be in zion, a light set on that hill so others can see us and glorify our father who is in heaven.
Once we are lifted up to Zion by the fiery flying serpent, ie the ONE ISRAEL looks upon to LIVE, held by Moses (Messiah to Israel), they will have a pure language and be WISE AS SERPENTS but harmless as DOVES---Israel.
let me know if you can identify what part of the tribulation you will be raptured in??
Jesus said it is finished on the cross and this is the tribulation; crucified with Christ. So that is the END. From that point on, we are in the resurrection, or post trib.
So the end is at the end of the sin nature, or the end of darkness or the end of Satan. After this Jesus said, "INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT" so now God and Christ Jesus are ONE again in spirit. Jesus Christ commited his spirit to God once again, and once they are ONE, they are one and can not be divided anymore. They were divided while the VAIL is still between the holy place (where we first see the abomination for desolation---the sin nature or man of lawlessness is revealed first, which is the ego or that part of us that thinks it is God, set up in the temple of God).
Jesus life shows us the process of the tribulation; He begins his ministry after he discovers ISRAEL the Dove who is also the Holy spirit or Shekinah landing on him after he descended for DEATH of his sin nature in the Jordan; he said this is to show all righteousness. So the descension which is the WATER BAPTISM is first; what is water baptism??? We become completely immersed in the word of God which DROWNS out the wicked one, the sin nature, the man of lawlessness. As the days of Noah so will be the coming of the "son of man"; we were doing all the normal things we are supposed to do and SUDDENLY destruction will come. This falling into the Jordan-descending to death or the PIT, wherein we fall suddenly, just as we are saying peace peace, will come at our appointed hour and Jesus said to be ready always for we dont know the HOUR our father has appointed our visitation.
When we rise we know we rise as Israel, the true soul and inheritance of God. Israel is the treasure "BURIED" in the field and the field is the world and when you descend to the buried place, death, you find the treasure.
Now the spirit takes Jesus into the wilderness just as the WINGS OF THE EAGLE take the woman _Israel into the wilderness after she gives birth to the malechild-the begotten of God. This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased; here he goes to a place PREPARED FOR HER while Satan gets to cast out the flood (water baptism of the word he tries to stumble you with). The woman Israel who is on earth or the kingdom on earth--OPENS HER MOUTH and swallows the flood of the word and CONFESSES unto salvation. Im showing you how to put the scriptures together here.
This is a place prepared while she is confessing unto salvation and her TONGUE IS BEING PURIFIED after the end of the sin nature to receive the PURE WORD OF GOD; Just as the ISRAELITES had to cross the RED SEA (water baptism) to get to the wilderness of Sinai to later come to the MOUNT to get the FIRE baptism, the TEN COMMANDMENTS or the LAW, which we will get when it is circumcised into our HEART through our mouth for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Hebrews tells us not to be afraid to approach ZION like Israel was afraid of Sinai; this time we want to get through the chastisment of a son and remember, we know we are sons of God after we are baptised by the water and have ascended as ISRAEL. Exodus 4:22 Israel is Gods son. Israel fell for the sake of the gentiles Romans 11; is the elect of God for the fathers sake. ALL Israel will be saved as they approach Zion.
it is a frightening thing to stand in the presence of the LIVING GOD For our God is a consuming FIRE (here is that baptism of getting the pure language in the upper room which is the upper world of Zion) spiritually we have to be in zion, a light set on that hill so others can see us and glorify our father who is in heaven.
Once we are lifted up to Zion by the fiery flying serpent, ie the ONE ISRAEL looks upon to LIVE, held by Moses (Messiah to Israel), they will have a pure language and be WISE AS SERPENTS but harmless as DOVES---Israel.
let me know if you can identify what part of the tribulation you will be raptured in??
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carma
Guest
Oh gee, some Replacement Theology thrown in there.
Careful Zafana, Replacement Theology is a big no-no and God hates it.
Careful Zafana, Replacement Theology is a big no-no and God hates it.
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