Poll: When Are The Orthodox Jews Saved?

[Guojing]

The Jews are the ones who endure. The church is covered by the blood of the Lamb. This is a physical fact, not a spiritual one. Is it that obvious that those who are not killed actually remain alive? If one is dead they are dead. If one avoids death, they are not dead. Avoid conditions where someone is pointing a gun at you. Death in the 4th Seal still ends in the saved going to heaven and the lost still going to sheol if they die. After the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, the Lamb will be on the earth and physically carrying out the final harvest. There is no avoiding death when the Lamb indicates one is a sheep and an angel removes the soul from Adam's sinful flesh body. Endurance is over at that point and a Jews eternal existence has been determined as a sheep. One's life as a descendant of Adam is over at that point. Eternal "salvation" is complete. Not part of the church, it will be the resurrection of Revelation 20:4. The millennium will be a totally different situation than now and the time of tribulation.

There are some who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

Your point is out of context:


10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying,

“Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship,
and the authority of his Messiah;
because the Accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them day and night before God,
has been thrown out!

11 “They defeated him because of the Lamb’s blood
and because of the message of their witness.
Even when facing death
they did not cling to life.

12 “Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there!
But woe to you, land and sea,
for the Adversary has come down to you,
and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”

This is the correct context. The church from Abel to the Second Coming, EVERYONE, all defeated Satan by the blood of the Lamb. Not humanity after the 6th Seal. Adam and Eve did not defeat Satan by the blood of the Lamb, or we were never told once in Scripture they did.

The church is gone during the Trumpets, Thunders, Satan's 42 months, the 7 vials, and the Millennium. No church on earth to defeat Satan with the blood of the Lamb, after the 6th Seal. The context is only from the time of Abel whom Cain killed, and any one alive who exercised the Faith of Hebrews 11. Abel is mentioned, so he is the first. This voice is proclaiming the entire history of the church (Hebrews 11), and the fact that now, the 7th Trumpet now, Satan is cast out of Heaven. An angel casts Satan out:

7 Next there was a battle in heaven — Mikha’el and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Revelation 12:1-6 is the historical footnote, then the word "next" takes us back to the 7th Trumpet. The woe of the 7th Trumpet casting Satan out and bringing him to earth for the 42 months about to split the week of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet in half. The casting out of Satan is part of the celebration of the 7th Trumpet, but the 42 months now that Satan is confined to earth will prolong the sound of the 7th Trumpet.

The proclamation in your quote is the cry of the whole church from Abel to those alive this minute.

So calling my post dual covenant theology is mute. You yourself, in your quote, are trying to split the church up into a group of church members existing outside of the parameters of the church. The church does not cast Satan out of heaven. The church does not endure after the 6th Seal by the blood of the Lamb, and most certainly the 7th Trumpet does not happen at the same time as the 6th Seal.

Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.


The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".

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[Timtofly]

Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.


The only way.....

The only way....

....is to read and let the Holy Spirit do the interpretation.

There is a point when humanity can fail you, and this rebuttal from you is a human shipwreck. There is only one Second Coming. It is in the 6th Seal. Every judgment after is Christ already here and active. The only time Christ is gone is for Satan's 42 months. There are only 2 individual literal humans representing God on earth for those 42 months. The only way to be "saved" is to get your head chopped off.

The battle of Armageddon is not the Second Coming nor a Third Coming. It is the last hour of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Christ was on earth for the first 3+ days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, so the battle of Armageddon is the same event in the 7th Trumpet event. It is a return not a separate phenomenon.

Some made up interpretive sermon may have a spiritual application or a feel good moment, but missing the whole point of Revelation by a thousand miles.

I have already explained the two witnesses do not have their soul go from one body to a different body. It is the same body, and was already incorruptible. They cannot sin, and they cannot decay. These two human are the only ones who like Moses and Elijah have the same physical body that God changed. Yes they died, and 3.5 days later they and their soul came back to life. The soul never left. Those who died since the first century lost their bodies back to dust. Do you think they are getting Adam's sinful fleshly body back full of sin and corruption? Paul says a new permanent incorruptible body.

Where does it say the bodies of the two witnesses are changed from corruption to incorruption? It says their same bodies arose. In Revelation 20:4 they get a brand new incorruptible body free of Adam's sin nature, and it can never die. Does not mean God cannot remove the life from it. It means God claims there will never be a reason to remove life from an incorruptible body. Except the two witnesses. Satan is allowed to make them literally dead. Body, soul, and spirit. Yet the same body, soul, and spirit is allowed life again by God. So the soul did not travel from one body to another body in that scenario.

 

[BABerean2]

The battle of Armageddon is not the Second Coming nor a Third Coming. It is the last hour of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

You recently claimed Revelation 16 was not a coming as a thief, until I quoted Revelation 16:15-16.

You have also claimed the Two Witnesses are killed without their bodies being damaged.


Once again, what you are claiming is not found in the Bible.

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[Timtofly]

You recently claimed Revelation 16 was not a coming as a thief, until I quoted Revelation 16:15-16.

You have also claimed the Two Witnesses are killed without their bodies being damaged.


Once again, what you are claiming is not found in the Bible.

.

That is a warning not a fact.

Do you have proof their bodies are damaged or assumption.

If you claim the 7th Trumpet is not a multi day event because Revelation 10 states otherwise.

The battle of Armageddon is a planned 1 hour event where the 10 kings add their might to Satan and the FP. What other battle including Satan and the FP is there? Why do you think some will be surprised when Jesus Christ shows up and kills them? Read Revelation between chapters 10 and 21 instead of quoting your favorite verses and show how I take things out of perspective.

 

[BABerean2]

Do you have proof their bodies are damaged or assumption.

They are dead.

The cells of the body die within a few minutes after the blood stops flowing.
Ask any doctor, and they will tell you the same thing.

This is Biology101.

.

 

[Timtofly]

They are dead.

The cells of the body die within a few minutes after the blood stops flowing.
Ask any doctor, and they will tell you the same thing.

This is Biology101.

.

You already said that. God does not make that evident. At least you have moved on from them being wood and metal humanoids.