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Yeah, um, where exactly is that in the Bible?We will never be free from sin, and come judgment even we as Christians will stand before God and be made to answer for them.
And you still have not addressed the 'I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved' challenge... you're still treating it as a singular event.http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html
Question: "Once saved always saved?"
Answer: Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact. (a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
(b) Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.
(c) Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away. (d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.
(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error. (f) For the most conclusive argument, I think Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!
The only ONE and the only Thing that I have to agree with is God and His Word..if anyone else chooses to believe other wise, that is between them and God. And by showing God's Word and not disputing it I glorify Him to the highest.
If it begins with faith, then how could it not also end with faith? Col1:21-23 says that we are reconciled to Christ, if indeed we continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast and not be moved away from the Hope of the Gospel. Since Jesus is "the Hope" (1Tim1:1), then how can that passage not clearly convey "forfeitability"?ForgivenWretch said:Answer: Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure.
Rom8:12ff says "if WE live according to (the lusts of) the flesh, we must die". Is there no possibility in that?Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact. (a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified."
Do we sin? You agree, we do.This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
Do you deny that justification must be received? Rom5:17.(b) Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
Yet --- if WE continue sinning willfully after having received FULL KNOWLEDGE (epignosis!) of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but terrifying expectation of judgment and fury of fire that consumes the adversaries. Heb10:26.Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.
"Born-again", or "regenerated", after (and through) faith.(c) Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5).
That's true.For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated.
It certainly does --- in Heb10:29 is a man who "WAS sanctified, by Jesus' blood". But now he tramples Jesus, scorns the blood, and insults the Spirit. One who was sanctified, had the Spirit.The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.
And what if someone ceases to believe? Rom11:21-23!(d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9)
Have you ever read Gal5:4? "You who seek to be again enslaved in Law (forsaking grace), you are SEVERED/SEPARATED from Christ, you are fallen from grace."and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.
The question remains, "what if belief can be deceived away?(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all.
The promise, is IF we hold fast to Him. Heb3:6 and 3:14 are clear.Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.
Paul absolutely conveyed "forfeitable salvation", in 1Cor9:25-27. AND in 2Cor13:5 --- do you know why he used the word "adokimos"?(f) For the most conclusive argument, I think Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!
I've cited many Scriptures; if your position is "aligned with the Word", then show me how I'm misunderstanding.The only ONE and the only Thing that I have to agree with is God and His Word..if anyone else chooses to believe other wise, that is between them and God. And by showing God's Word and not disputing it I glorify Him to the highest
You and I agree with Scripture --- Eph5:5-6, 1Cor9:11-13, Gal5:19-21. Jesus said "you will know them by their fruits"....Behe'sBoy said:Nice post - but point (e) has me a bit confused. Are you saying that people can profess Christ - then fall into gross sin and still be saved?
What if they were?My response would be that such a person was not truly saved to begin with.
Belief can become unbelief; as I just quoted to "Forgiven":Faith is a funny thing - and though I'm inclined to believe that everyone who professes Christ is a brother or sister - the minute they start cursing Christ or knowingly and willingly committing gross sin I am inclined to say "nah" - they were never saved.
Ben said:t can in Heb3:12-14.
It can (be deceived away) in James1:14-16.
It can in 2Pet3:17.
It can in 1Jn2:26-28, and 2Jn1:9.
It can in Col2:6-8.
Why "always"? Show me where "faith" cannot fall to deception. (See my above-quote.)Let me clarify something for you guys - because I think I can see where there might be some confusion with my posts.
I do not believe that we will stop sinning when we come to Christ. I'm sorry if I have led you to believe that is my stand.
I do believe that as a result of salvation a person's heart will become disposed toward the things of God and will be bent toward's doing the will of God. When failure occurs - that person always counts on Christ's grace.
They "fell away" in 2Pet2:22.But I do believe that there are people out there - who call themselves Christians - but aren't for one reason or another. When they ultimately turn away from the faith - it is not because they "fell away." It is because they were not saved to begin with.
What does "stumbling" mean to you?In regards to the Peter passage - the fact that he wept bitterly shows that his heart was always disposed to Christ. He was never truly lost - just stumbling.
Please read what I just said to Behe; in Lk22:32, did Jesus not REALLY think that Peter's faith could fail?Beloved said:Sure, peter did it..
lk 22:
55And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
56But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
57And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
58And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
59And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
60And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew.
61And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 62And Peter went out, and wept bitterly
What peter did was so sinful that Jesus says in another place that those who do this he will also deny them..
Hold that thought --- now, read 2Tim2:11-13.matt 10
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
I think he does; much of what he says, is excellent. (If we could just get past this "sovereign-decreed" thing...)behe I dont believe you understand salvation. What do you believe about the gospel ?
No, they don't.ForgivenWretch said:Two young men..
1st...at the age of ten accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and for the next ten years served Him faithfully, but then for the next ten years back slid and turned away, then died
2nd...at the age of 20, accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, and served Him faithfully for the next ten years, at which time he also died
At death, both were 30...do they both go to Heaven?
One has not favor at all. Jesus said in Lk13:5, "Unless you repent, you will perish".Do they both have favor with God? and if so is that favor equal?
this was in response to me and appears that you were talking to me. If you weren't then maybe you might have worded it differently.
Two young men..
1st...at the age of ten accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and for the next ten years served Him faithfully, but then for the next ten years back slid and turned away, then died
2nd...at the age of 20, accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, and served Him faithfully for the next ten years, at which time he also died
At death, both were 30...do they both go to Heaven? Do they both have favor with God? and if so is that favor equal?
Originally Posted by forgivenWretch
Two young men..
1st...at the age of ten accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and for the next ten years served Him faithfully, but then for the next ten years back slid and turned away, then died
2nd...at the age of 20, accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, and served Him faithfully for the next ten years, at which time he also died
At death, both were 30...do they both go to Heaven? Do they both have favor with God? and if so is that favor equal?
there is no question, as to weather or not they are true Christians. as you continue to say...it is not ours to judge...so with that being said do they, as born again Christians, go to heaven?
Behe said:I know your feelings on this one - I'm just clarifying my position for these guys - I'm not ready to get back into our endless debates bro - I'm enjoying our new found friendship and mutual respect too much!
Show me with verses! You can say "you're wrong", but can you do it with Bible verses???ForgivenWretch said:you are so wrong!
Yes it is --- without "judging", we cannot separate "good" from "evil". The only time "judging" is negative in Scripture, is like in Matt7 --- and it's not judging that's condemned, but hypocrisy.there is no question, as to weather or not they are true Christians. as you continue to say...it is not ours to judge
"Born again", does not "walk in sin"....so with that being said do they, as born again Christians, go to heaven?
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