Poll on Election

[rebaa]

Rom 9:17-23

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
KJV

 

[puriteen18]

I could not agree with any of the selections.

I am a Calvinist and have been taught that God did, before the foundation of the world, ordain some to life and others to death.

Romans 9
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

I don't think it is just default (although it would have worked that way, seeing that none can come to Christ unless they are called by effectual calling.)

I believe God planed everything in eternity past and that His plan should never fall.

He predestined creation, the fall, salvation, and the end all from the begining. I believe that every little detail in life was planned by Him and ordained to happen.

Isaiah 46
8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.


This is not fatalism; it is a mystery.

I don't believe in that we are born with free will, but I believe man does whatever he wants or what he sees as best according to his perverse reason. It has been this way since the fall.

All men are commanded to repent, but none can do so.

When God does save His child the child does regain his free will. He (the child) is able to will and do what he wills. Is is able to please God and sin against God. However, God will put in His true children an increasing desire to do good works.

It is not as easy as you either believe men can make choices or you believe we are just God's puppets.

God does not force nor make men sin, but He did plan and allow men to do this.

Niether does God "force" men to repent as much as He does reach down out of His Holy place and pull us out of our sin and save us. He does however cause us and grant us repentence and faith in Him, because we are unable to do so because we are depraved. If He did leave it up to us, none would repent and we would all be in hell (which is what we deserve anyway).

Romans 3
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

It is a mystery, men making choices and God's unfalling Providence existing in complete compatiblity, but so are many other doctrines of our religion. Our God and His workings will probably never be completely understood by us stupid men. We just have to study and understand best we can what He reveals to us.

 

[puriteen18]

This might explain it better than my other post:

All men have been predestined to life or death.

Men make choices, both saved men and unsaved, and every choice has been allowed by God from eternity past.

Saved men have free will (only after they are saved), unconverted men do not. Yet all choices of both are allowed and planned before time in God's Providence.

God's Providence can never be thwarted in the least. All Glory be to Him!

It is a paradox.