Poll for belief in the trinity as a requirement for membership

[HypnoToad]

says you....

and that is my point...



YOU cannot define for me what the Trinity is....I can define it for me just fine....

No, people don't get to make up new definitions out of thin air just because you don't like the real one.

I believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit....


that sir is the Trinity....whether you want to accept it as such or not....

If not three persons, then no, that is not the Trinity by definition. Modalism, for example, is the belief in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit; but it is not the Trinity because modalism views them all as the same person.

show me where the Holy Spirit or the Father were ever persons....you cannot...

I think you are confusing "person" with "physical body" - that's not what it means.

 

[GuardianShua]

Perhaps you should expand upon that?

Do you believe in the two main Christian creeds?



APOSTLES' CREED



The Apostles' Creed is a brief statement of gospel truths taught by the apostles. It was not formulated by theologians, but out of the needs of the Christian church. Christians used it to tell others what they believed and also to confess their faith with one another as they met for worship.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

​

NICENE CREED



The Nicene Creed was written around a.d. 325 in defense of the true Christian faith. The Council at Nicea developed it, expanding on the deity of Christ, in order to safeguard the apostles' teaching.


We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is,
seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and became fully human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
He suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who in unity with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

​

THE ATHANASIAN CREED


This creed is named after St. Athanasius, a staunch defender of the Christian faith in the fourth century. It was prepared to assist the Church in combating two errors that undermined Bible teaching. One error denied that God's Son and the Holy Spirit are of one being or Godhead with the Father. The other error denied that Jesus Christ is true God and true man In one person. The Athanasian Creed continues to serve the Christian Church as a standard of the truth. It declares that whoever rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of Christ is without the saving faith.



Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all else, hold to the true Christian faith.
Whoever does not keep this faith pure in all points will certainly perish forever.
Now this is the true Christian faith:
We worship one God in three persons and three persons in one God,
without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being.
For each person -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- is distinct,
but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
equal in glory and coeternal in majesty.
What the Father is, so is the Son, and so is the Holy Spirit.

Those Creed's are fine for those who follow the Catholic Church doctrine.

 

[zeke37]

person....



perhaps you could show me biblically where the God head is described as persons....or else you are just blowing hot air.....tradition of man....

 

[HypnoToad]

person....



perhaps you could show me biblically where the God head is described as persons....or else you are just blowing hot air.....tradition of man....

How are you defining "person"?

 

[HypnoToad]

Excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia on "Trinity":

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

Excerpt from Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th edition:

--the Trinity Christian Theol. the union of the three divine persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one Godhead

Excerpt from an article at Bible.org on the Trinity:

God is Triune, eternally existing as Father, Son, and Spirit (three persons or personalities that are personally distinct)--yet there is only one God. This has been called the doctrine of the TRINITY since the days of the early church

Link:http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1531

The links provided also give Scriptural support. Can you show an authoritative definition on "Trinity" that does not specify three "persons"?

 

[zeke37]

No, people don't get to make up new definitions out of thin air just because you don't like the real one.

real one???? who's idea of real one??? Yours, or some council 1700 years ago? I refuse to let other men decide for me what I should believe....I came out of the Catholic church...they do enough of that, thank-you very much.....


the Trinity is the Father and the Son and the Spirit....


They are the Three that bear witness in Heaven....


Just because someone called Them persons, doesn't make it so....

If not three persons, then no, that is not the Trinity by definition.

says who.....of authority??? Did Jesus teach this? Did Paul?

Modalism, for example, is the belief in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit; but it is not the Trinity because modalism views them all as the same person.

No it does not....Person is not mentioned in Modelism....


I think you are confusing "person" with "physical body" - that's not what it means.

I never said that it does...but each person that I know has a physical body....



we'd all be Catholic if we allowed others to do our thinking for us....


in His service
c

 

[HypnoToad]

I never said you should let "anyone decide for you what to believe". You can believe whatever you wish. That doesn't change the fact that you don't get to redefine terms to whatever you wish. You did not answer the question - can you provide an authoritative definition that shows the Trinity does not involve 3 persons?

 

[HypnoToad]

No it does not....Person is not mentioned in Modelism....

Really?

Excerpt from CARM on "Modalism":

Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity which states that God is a single person

Link: http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm



Excerpt from Wikipedia on "Sabellianism" (modalism):

Historic Sabellianism (modalism) taught that God the Father was the only person of the Godhead

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modalism



Excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia on "Monarchians" (modalists):

The Monarchians properly so-called (Modalists) exaggerated the oneness of the Father and the Son so as to make them but one Person

Link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm



Excerpt from Bible.org, "The Triune God: Who Is He?":

So also is modalism (one person in the Godhead who appeared in different ways)

Link: http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1409

 

[Svt4Him]

person....



perhaps you could show me biblically where the God head is described as persons....or else you are just blowing hot air.....tradition of man....

See, this is the reason I want to make it a foundational belief. This is not a question, it's a statement that seem fairly obviously to infer that those who believe this are believing in the traditions of man. It becomes an ad hominem item and I don't want to have to defend my belief, that is biblically sound, against issues like "tradition of man".

For this reason, I whole heartedly think the NC is a foundational belief, even if catholic is replaced with universal.

 

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the Name of Jesus:

If one believes Jesus is savior, and Christ Messiah; should they be denied a place by men: because of doctrines or words of Men not directly written in the scriptures?

Should I be excommunicated from communion with fellow believers in Jesus, because I Accept not doctrines of some believers, Not directly taught by Jesus or his disciples?

Such as, The Pope being perfect in theology, or Satan as brother of Jesus. or Rapture, or many other beliefs which are thought written, but are interpretations?

Should Men mandate what interpretations are a must belief, for membership, as if Gods will; or should we hold only, to actual precepts and doctrines which are solid written truths alone as mandated.

Must I believe Water baptism, removes sins, and not spiritual baptism representing blood of Jesus?

I say we should not add unto Gods eternal word, which shall not pass away. And submit that words actually used by God; since its written they are pure and eternal, should be enough; And outside actual words of God; doctrines should not arise.

But I shall not condemn those who will condemn me for holding to the word alone; being absent additional doctrines which are liked by man.

I pray not one takes offense by my words. It is only my opinion, and my walk with Jesus.

God bless all those who claim Jesus as Lord, And all who use this forum.
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[FreeinChrist]

See, this is the reason I want to make it a foundational belief. This is not a question, it's a statement that seem fairly obviously to infer that those who believe this are believing in the traditions of man. It becomes an ad hominem item and I don't want to have to defend my belief, that is biblically sound, against issues like "tradition of man".

For this reason, I whole heartedly think the NC is a foundational belief, even if catholic is replaced with universal.

Amen!

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Greetings in the Name of Jesus:

If one believes Jesus is savior, and Christ Messiah; should they be denied a place by men: because of doctrines or words of Men not directly written in the scriptures?

Hebrews 1:8 8But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Is that a word of men or a word by the Father God himself?

 

[InHisPeace]

I don't think that belief in the trinity doctrine should be required to participate in this subforum.

This restriction will be shutting people such as myself out, for a doctrine that Jesus himself never taught, when this subforum is a great non denom forum for people with a range of beliefs centering around the one faith.

This is when non-denom becomes a denomination in itself, I guess...

Truth and Love,
InHisPeace

 

[HypnoToad]

for a doctrine that Jesus himself never taught,

So, is anything that isn't a direct quote of Jesus something "less" than Scripture?

This is when non-denom becomes a denomination in itself, I guess...

Wrong. Non-denominational doesn't mean "anything goes". It means each individual congregation is able to determine its own statement of beliefs. And if this congregation chooses to uphold the Trinity, that in no way makes it a "denomination".

What is it with the recent flood of posters who apparently like to redifine terms to whatever suits their fancy? Ah, the great "advancement" known as "cultural relativism".

 

[GuardianShua]

So, is anything that isn't a direct quote of Jesus something "less" than Scripture?


Wrong. Non-denominational doesn't mean "anything goes". It means each individual congregation is able to determine its own statement of beliefs. And if this congregation chooses to uphold the Trinity, that in no way makes it a "denomination".

What is it with the recent flood of posters who apparently like to redifine terms to whatever suits their fancy? Ah, the great "advancement" known as "cultural relativism".

Insults don't change the facts. And truth is not broad and all incompassing, but narrowly defined.

 

[HypnoToad]

Insults don't change the facts. And truth is not broad and all incompassing, but narrowly defined.

I altered no "facts" whatsoever. I asked an honest question, and pointed out the correct definition of "denomination". If one wants to feel "insulted" by facts and truth, not my problem.

 

[Svt4Him]

This poll closes when?

 

[BustedFlat]

Insults don't change the facts. And truth is not broad and all incompassing, but narrowly defined.

So Paul is a denomination?

2Co 13:13 All the saints greet you.
2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Wrong. Non-denominational doesn't mean "anything goes". It means each individual congregation is able to determine its own statement of beliefs. And if this congregation chooses to uphold the Trinity, that in no way makes it a "denomination".

What is it with the recent flood of posters who apparently like to redifine terms to whatever suits their fancy? Ah, the great "advancement" known as "cultural relativism".

excellent points here

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Insults don't change the facts.

He did not insult.