Poll for belief in the trinity as a requirement for membership

[Jim47]

Poll closes Oct 15th

 

[Svt4Him]

wohoo!

 

[HypnoToad]

I'd like to question FreedomFollower's vote here. He has only a single post, it was made over a year and a half ago, and it wasn't even in ND.

 

[Svt4Him]

I noticed we have a forum already for those who don't believe in the trinity. Then I wonder why this is an issue.

 

[PeacaHeaven]

I noticed we have a forum already for those who don't believe in the trinity. Then I wonder why this is an issue.

me too. I'm tired of all this

 

[Starcrystal]

I can agree with most of it but not the statement of persons....

God the Father
God the Son, manifest in the flesh as Christ
God the Holy Spirit, the power of God's Spirit.....

Christ is/was a person....in God's very image...

the 3 are ONE but not all persons....

in His service
c

My sentiments as well. I honestly don't think this poll should be here because of the new rules - as well as the old. For any who don't know, a couple of years ago I had some pretty heavy debates over this issue. I am not talking about moderator activity, but several members wanted me to change my icon simply because I did not believe the "three persons" theology. Since CF at the time had rule #6 which included the NICENE CREED, it was clear that particular creed did not say anywhere that God was "three persons." therefore after lengthy debate it was determined I was not violating the rule or the creed. this happened 2 or 3 different times.

I believe God is ONE, but is manifest in 3 ways. God is NOT a man, the Holy Spirit is a Spirit, and John says God is a Spirit.... Jesus is a MAN, a PERSON, in whom dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
But God and the Holy Spirit are not persons; people.

Although the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed are Catholic/Roman in origin, neither proclaim God as three PERSONS so I can agree on those so long as we interpret "holy catholic or apostolic church" to mean the "church universal" and not the ROMAN CHURCH which is a particular denomination.
I cannot agree with the Athansian Creed however because it emphasises the three persons. Shall we bring God down to the level of man by such a doctrine when god is so much more, so much higher than mere "persons."??

Besides all that, according to the new rules anyone can have any icon and post in any forum with few exceptions.

- Well, that's how the original changes were supposed to be but I see in the rules this:
"You will not misrepresent your beliefs to make posts in those areas of the site designated "Christians Only" or to use one of the "Christian" icons. You may only make posts in those sections if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God, with the exception of threads containing the [OPEN] tag in their titles. You may only use one of the "Christian" icons if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God."

Ok, still using the Nicene Creed which does not specify persons. The "trinitarian nature of God" is fine with me, so long as we are not asked to claim the 3 are 3 persons.

 

[LJSGM]

The problem is that the human language is very limited, as well as our understanding.

 

[psalms 91]

I noticed we have a forum already for those who don't believe in the trinity. Then I wonder why this is an issue.

Once rules are in place and so on it wont be. Everyone who is a member here help get the WIKI so we can lay out ground rules. For those who have been working on it, thank you for the hard work and please continue to.

 

[HypnoToad]

Starcrystal - you talk as though you think "persons" means something like "physical human beings". It doesn't mean that in reference to the Trinity. It really only means simply a distinct individual, or being; the term doesn't refer to having a physical body. "Essences" is often used interchangeably with "persons".

 

[heavensprings]

My sentiments as well. I honestly don't think this poll should be here because of the new rules - as well as the old. For any who don't know, a couple of years ago I had some pretty heavy debates over this issue. I am not talking about moderator activity, but several members wanted me to change my icon simply because I did not believe the "three persons" theology. Since CF at the time had rule #6 which included the NICENE CREED, it was clear that particular creed did not say anywhere that God was "three persons." therefore after lengthy debate it was determined I was not violating the rule or the creed. this happened 2 or 3 different times.

I believe God is ONE, but is manifest in 3 ways. God is NOT a man, the Holy Spirit is a Spirit, and John says God is a Spirit.... Jesus is a MAN, a PERSON, in whom dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
But God and the Holy Spirit are not persons; people.

Although the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed are Catholic/Roman in origin, neither proclaim God as three PERSONS so I can agree on those so long as we interpret "holy catholic or apostolic church" to mean the "church universal" and not the ROMAN CHURCH which is a particular denomination.
I cannot agree with the Athansian Creed however because it emphasises the three persons. Shall we bring God down to the level of man by such a doctrine when god is so much more, so much higher than mere "persons."??

Besides all that, according to the new rules anyone can have any icon and post in any forum with few exceptions.

- Well, that's how the original changes were supposed to be but I see in the rules this:
"You will not misrepresent your beliefs to make posts in those areas of the site designated "Christians Only" or to use one of the "Christian" icons. You may only make posts in those sections if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God, with the exception of threads containing the [OPEN] tag in their titles. You may only use one of the "Christian" icons if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God."

Ok, still using the Nicene Creed which does not specify persons. The "trinitarian nature of God" is fine with me, so long as we are not asked to claim the 3 are 3 persons.

I believe exactly as you do, Starcrystal. Couldn't have put it any better.

 

[heavensprings]

I noticed we have a forum already for those who don't believe in the trinity. Then I wonder why this is an issue.

Would that be the set of forums for Non-Nicene?

 

[sandman]

I noticed we have a forum already for those who don't believe in the trinity. Then I wonder why this is an issue.

The problem is the definition of Christianity ………
Some want Christianity defined as one who believes in the trinity…………..others wish to leave it as is.
Christianity is what God wrought in Jesus Christ. God does not define Christianity as one who does or does not believe in a trine system of belief ……….period.
I would that we could just keep things as simple as God dictates them, and not try to isolate ourselves from other members of the body of Christ who hold differing beliefs. The underline division comes from those who believe, that those who are non-Trinitarians are not saved, therefore they believe they are not true Christians …the Word dictates otherwise.
If the Bible is our criteria for determining who is and isn’t a Christian, then by simple logic according to the written Word, anybody who does not fellowship in houses should not be called a Christian; so maybe we should make that a rule also. Is it absurd? .....maybe ……… maybe not. Certainly its clarity in scripture is more pronounced then trying to force a triune belief. After all Christianity, or the word Christian, was not introduced until the book of Acts, which outlines the rise and expansion of the Christian church. Christ – in {Christian} was derived from those who were born again having Christ in them, not available until after Pentecost.
So why don’t we leave well enough alone …agree that there are differences of beliefs, fellowship together, and move on with the greatness of Gods Word instead of infighting, which is playing right into the hand of the adversary.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I noticed we have a forum already for those who don't believe in the trinity. Then I wonder why this is an issue.

Yes, we do. In the Non-nicene area.

and in reading the thread in the Wiki Rules forum abut the new owner of the site, I am wondering what changes will be occurring at 4U

 

[heavensprings]

Yes, we do. In the Non-nicene area.

and in reading the thread in the Wiki Rules forum abut the new owner of the site, I am wondering what changes will be occurring at 4U

Does that mean that any ND who doesn't hold to the traditional views on the trinity (but believes Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God but not separate 'persons', but still continues to believe in all other Nicene beliefs) is to be relegated to the Non-Nicene forum with the cults and have to fellowship with all the other weird and way out beliefs among which is the Latter Day Saints and JW's, etc??

 

[zeke37]

Ya that is kinda how I believe...

we know that God's Spirit is the Holy Spirit....
we know that Yeshua was Immanuel, God with us....God manifest as man...

we know the Three are One
we know that Three bear record in heaven


I take acception to the labeling of Persons....

I think it is to make Them distinct from One Another, but I do not think that They are distinct.....They have one overall Will....PLAN....OBJECTIVE. True Christ's will was to save, forgive....that was the Lamb's duty and reason....

but overall, God is able to be what ever He wants, when ever He wants, including both Christ and Father at the same time....

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Yes, we do. In the Non-nicene area.

and in reading the thread in the Wiki Rules forum abut the new owner of the site, I am wondering what changes will be occurring at 4U

hopefully many

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Starcrystal - you talk as though you think "persons" means something like "physical human beings". It doesn't mean that in reference to the Trinity. It really only means simply a distinct individual, or being; the term doesn't refer to having a physical body. "Essences" is often used interchangeably with "persons".

 

[Cris413]

Does that mean that any ND who doesn't hold to the traditional views on the trinity (but believes Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God but not separate 'persons', but still continues to believe in all other Nicene beliefs) is to be relegated to the Non-Nicene forum with the cults and have to fellowship with all the other weird and way out beliefs among which is the Latter Day Saints and JW's, etc??

(bold added)
Please Blue...do I see judgement of JW's and LDS?...

Are they not our brothers and sisters in Christ too? Or at the very least....are they not our neighbors that we are to love as we love ourselves?

Where's the humility? Are we not to consider JW's and LDS better than we consider ourselves?

I mean...simply because they believe differently than we do...is no reason to call them weird and way out...

Could we not consider...hypocrisy right up there with judgement...as poor fruit?

Just something I consider as check out the beam in my own eye....

 

[Svt4Him]

The problem is the definition of Christianity ………
Some want Christianity defined as one who believes in the trinity…………..others wish to leave it as is.
Christianity is what God wrought in Jesus Christ. God does not define Christianity as one who does or does not believe in a trine system of belief ……….period.
I would that we could just keep things as simple as God dictates them, and not try to isolate ourselves from other members of the body of Christ who hold differing beliefs. The underline division comes from those who believe, that those who are non-Trinitarians are not saved, therefore they believe they are not true Christians …the Word dictates otherwise.
If the Bible is our criteria for determining who is and isn’t a Christian, then by simple logic according to the written Word, anybody who does not fellowship in houses should not be called a Christian; so maybe we should make that a rule also. Is it absurd? .....maybe ……… maybe not. Certainly its clarity in scripture is more pronounced then trying to force a triune belief. After all Christianity, or the word Christian, was not introduced until the book of Acts, which outlines the rise and expansion of the Christian church. Christ – in {Christian} was derived from those who were born again having Christ in them, not available until after Pentecost.
So why don’t we leave well enough alone …agree that there are differences of beliefs, fellowship together, and move on with the greatness of Gods Word instead of infighting, which is playing right into the hand of the adversary.

Christians followed the teachings of Christ which had nothing to do with being born again into Christ, as it was a name given to them, not by them. I can also mention Christian was a term given in insult, not as a way to identify others. So if people worship a different God, it's ok we are to all be accepting, and let me guess, God's love will cover it. Who God is is foundational for whatever belief you have, and if you are in error and not willing to look at your error, then there is an area to post in other than ND. I guess I can be more politically correct and say if you believe different, but both my view and one who believes God is three people can not agree, as they contradict one another, so it is important to know which one is true and which one is not. You seem to think truth has no bearing in this discussion, whereas I think by knowing the truth you are set free.

 

[Spiritofprophecy]

Hebrews 1:8 8But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Is that a word of men or a word by the Father God himself?

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

Well of course hebrews, is from God. And Nice verse.

I ask, is the word Trinity from God, or man?

And to my point, should trinity faith in this mans word, be mandated in Non denomination. Or should the word. God the Father, God the Son, and Gods spirit. Faith in this should be enough.

I also personally believe Jesus is Messiah, And the Mighty God, and everlasting Father. Isaiah 9;6

I pray my words do not offend, God bless Christians in forum, and all those who use it.