Poll: Does the Theory of Evolution have practical applications?

Astrid · Feb 14, 2021

Does it matter if its practical or not?

I dont think the Mona Lisa, or Shakespeare is practical.
Nor Mars exploration.
But they are cultural, intellectual achievementstheories as are
scientific throries.

ToE is very useful as the framework within to understand
biology, much would just random data making no sense
otherwise.

Astrid · Feb 14, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
I'm not saying that evolution does not occur. You said:

I was just wondering if you think the ToE is true, that you could explain how evolution works such as why it takes 3 drugs to give a durable treatment for HIV and why 1 or 2 drug therapy is inadequate. Where in the ToE is the explanation for this?

I'd agree that Ken is kinda off base.

Ken-1122 · Feb 14, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
I'm not saying that evolution does not occur. You said:

I was just wondering if you think the ToE is true, that you could explain how evolution works such as why it takes 3 drugs to give a durable treatment for HIV and why 1 or 2 drug therapy is inadequate. Where in the ToE is the explanation for this?

I don't know about all medicines so let me rephrase. Much of modern medicine is based on the Theory of Evolution being true. Is that better?

Astrid · Feb 14, 2021

Ken-1122 said:
I don't know about all medicines so let me rephrase. Much of modern medicine is based on the Theory of Evolution being true. Is that better?

Try, " a good working theory".
Do you have an example?

Alan Kleinman · Feb 14, 2021

Ken-1122 said:
I don't know about all medicines so let me rephrase. Much of modern medicine is based on the Theory of Evolution being true. Is that better?

What part of modern medicine is based on the ToE? Where in the ToE is the explanation of how drug-resistance evolves?

Alan Kleinman · Feb 14, 2021

Estrid said:
Does it matter if its practical or not?

I dont think the Mona Lisa, or Shakespeare is practical.
Nor Mars exploration.
But they are cultural, intellectual achievementstheories as are
scientific throries.

ToE is very useful as the framework within to understand
biology, much would just random data making no sense
otherwise.

What makes you think that the ToE is the correct framework to understand biology? Perhaps you can help Ken-1122 and give us an explanation from the ToE of why 3 drug therapy gives durable treatment for HIV?

Astrid · Feb 14, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
What makes you think that the ToE is the correct framework to understand biology? Perhaps you can help Ken-1122 and give us an explanation from the ToE of why 3 drug therapy gives durable treatment for HIV?

I just got through saying it isn't relevant to
3 drug therapy.
Why are you asking me to expound on
ToE as the framework for biology?
Do you want to know or is this some other
challenge?
I don't mind explaining tho its something every
biology student knows and is easy to look up.
I'm kind of surprised you'd feel a need to ssk.

Alan Kleinman · Feb 14, 2021

Estrid said:
I just got through saying it isn't relevant to
3 drug therapy.
Why are you asking me to expound on
ToE as the framework for biology?
Do you want to know or is this some other
challenge?
I don't mind explaining tho its something every
biology student knows and is easy to look up.
I'm kind of surprised you'd feel a need to ssk.

The drugs used to treat HIV are selection pressures. The virus can evolve to 1 and 2 drug therapy very rapidly but 3 drug therapy suppresses the evolutionary process. What in the ToE explains this? If you like, you can expound on how the ToE explains how random mutation and natural selection works.

Astrid · Feb 14, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
The drugs used to treat HIV are selection pressures. The virus can evolve to 1 and 2 drug therapy very rapidly but 3 drug therapy suppresses the evolutionary process. What in the ToE explains this? If you like, you can expound on how the ToE explains how random mutation and natural selection works.

The vaccine thing isn't my topic.
As for the evolution question-
Why don't you already know the basics of
how evolution works?
Trying to argue against it, if that is your aim,
without such knowledge is like taking a rubber
knife to a gunfight.

Alan Kleinman · Feb 14, 2021

Estrid said:
The vaccine thing isn't my topic.
As for the evolution question-
Why don't you already know the basics of
how evolution works?
Trying to argue against it, if that is your aim,
without such knowledge is like taking a rubber
knife to a gunfight.

There is no vaccine for HIV, HIV is treated with antiviral medications. And I'm not trying to fight with you. I'm trying to find out what the ToE explains to you about evolution and biology. driewerf in post #17 brought up the Kishony experiment. There is another good experiment, the Lenski long-term evolution experiment. How does the ToE explain these experiments? Do these experiments support the ToE or do they demonstrate a fatal flaw in the theory? I'm in the tiny minority that thinks the Theory of Evolution does NOT have practical applications and from a scientific point of view, actually slows the advancement of the medical field and agriculture.

Ken-1122 · Feb 14, 2021

Estrid said:
Try, " a good working theory".
Do you have an example?

I mentioned before about the flu virus as an example, here is a link that explains it better than I can;
Evolution in Medicine

And it’s not just modern medicine, agriculture as well; a particular insecticide will eventually become ineffective because the insects will evolve in a way rendering the insecticide useless so the farmer will have to change up.

Ken-1122 · Feb 14, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
What part of modern medicine is based on the ToE? Where in the ToE is the explanation of how drug-resistance evolves?

I mentioned before about the flu virus as an example, here is a link that explains it better than I can;
Evolution in Medicine

And it’s not just modern medicine, agriculture as well; a particular insecticide will eventually become ineffective because the insects will evolve in a way rendering the insecticide useless so the farmer will have to change up.

Ophiolite · Feb 15, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
What part of modern medicine is based on the ToE?

The identification of mutations of Covid-19 and the recognition that these alter the behaviour of the virus lead to modified strategies for containment and for modifying vaccines accordingly. Such an approach would be purely empirical (and consequently constrained) without ToE

Clizby WampusCat · Feb 15, 2021

There are many applications of evolution theory pointed out already. However, if there were not any the value would be in knowing the truth about our ancestry.

Alan Kleinman · Feb 15, 2021

Ken-1122 said:
I mentioned before about the flu virus as an example, here is a link that explains it better than I can;
Evolution in Medicine

And it’s not just modern medicine, agriculture as well; a particular insecticide will eventually become ineffective because the insects will evolve in a way rendering the insecticide useless so the farmer will have to change up.

Your link gives many examples of evolution but the ToE does not explain how these examples work. If you want a good theory to explain evolution, try using the laws of thermodynamics.

Astrid · Feb 15, 2021

Ken-1122 said:
I mentioned before about the flu virus as an example, here is a link that explains it better than I can;
Evolution in Medicine

And it’s not just modern medicine, agriculture as well; a particular insecticide will eventually become ineffective because the insects will evolve in a way rendering the insecticide useless so the farmer will have to change up.

Of course. I hold though that it has next
to nothing to do with the theory of evolution,
just a bit of unnatural selection from among
existing varieties.

In Oz they tried to exterminate rabbits with
a coordinated release of infected rabbits.
Worked great on 99.999 percent!
But you know what two rabbits can do.
That was not evolution.

Alan Kleinman · Feb 15, 2021

Ophiolite said:
The identification of mutations of Covid-19 and the recognition that these alter the behaviour of the virus lead to modified strategies for containment and for modifying vaccines accordingly. Such an approach would be purely empirical (and consequently constrained) without ToE

How does the ToE lead to the identification of mutations of any kind? And what is required for a mutation to occur?

Astrid · Feb 15, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
There are many applications of evolution theory pointed out already. However, if there were not any the value would be in knowing the truth about our ancestry.

Ha. Imagine the creationist meeting a reception line of 2 million years
of ancestors! After the first 6000 years' worth he looks at the rest
of the line and , says what? I know ye not, get thee hence?

Alan Kleinman · Feb 15, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
There are many applications of evolution theory pointed out already. However, if there were not any the value would be in knowing the truth about our ancestry.

Is "evolution theory" the same as the ToE? If it is, use your "evolution theory" to explain the evolution of drug-resistance (for example, the Kishony Mega-Plate Experiment)

Ophiolite · Feb 15, 2021

Alan Kleinman said:
How does the ToE lead to the identification of mutations of any kind? And what is required for a mutation to occur?

In reverse order:

The simplest way of putting it is that the duplication of DNA is not a perfect process. When an imperfection occurs that is a mutation.
The ToE does not lead to the identification of mutations it places those mutations in context, alerts researchers to their possibility and to their effects, in general, and thus suggests possible solutions.

How do you think such progress as we have seen would have occurred without cognisance of the ToE?

Poll: Does the Theory of Evolution have practical applications?

Does the Theory of Evolution have practical applications?

I'm a creationist: YES, the Theory of Evolution has practical applications.

I'm a creationist: NO, the Theory of Evolution does NOT have practical applications.

I'm an evolutionist: YES, the Theory of Evolution has practical applications.

I'm an evolutionist: NO, the Theory of Evolution does NOT have practical applications.

I'm a creationist: I am unsure if the Theory of Evolution has practical applications.

I'm an evolutionist: I am unsure if the Theory of Evolution has practical applications.

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