Pledge Unconstitutional

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Originally posted by TheBear
What specific religion is specified in the phrase, "under God"?  I really want to know about this.

The fact is, the overwhelming majority of Americans believe that there is a God.  No religion is specified in connection to 'under God'. No one religion is being promoted over the rest.

Why is it, that the extreme minority gets preference over the overwhelming majority?

Not to worry. This will eventually be overturned by the Supreme Court.

John

 

TheBear,

 What is religion-specific about it? It refers to the God of the Abrahamic followers, and excludes Shamanists, Buddhists, Shintoists, Wiccans, Satanists, agnostics, and atheists, to name just a few.

  And yes, I am worried about it being overturned by your predominantly Christian Supreme Court. It won't make it right if it happens, nor constitutional.

 Man, you guys just don't get it. That other poster seemed to sum up your beliefs perfectly: "believe what I do or leave the country."

 Just because you've violated the laws of this country countless times doesn't make it right. And I'm sorry, my heart is not breaking that just this one time, Christians don't get a favored religion status.

  Jeff

 

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by Project 86
Well then D. Scarlatti they shouldn't teach creation at all then.

For the third time, they don't. Because it violates the establishment clause.

 

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Originally posted by Project 86
I been to both public and Christian schools. There is a lot of de-education going on with public schools. Most schools do teach sex before marriage as not a bad thing, evolution is hinted as being the correct choice and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

"Most" eh? Let's see some facts to support this statement.

No public school I've ever been in or known of has promoted sex before marriage. (Not that abstinence is necessarily the right choice either, just that the schools shouldn't be prescribing morality of that type in either direction.)

   Jeff

 

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by A Sheep
Is it not illegal in some states to burn a flag?

Holy mackeral. Do you people read? The United States Supreme Court declared in 1989 that flag burning is constitutionally protected free speech. How could a state prosecute someone for expressing their constitutionally protected political views?

 

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Originally posted by D. Scarlatti


Holy mackeral. Do you people read? The United States Supreme Court declared in 1989 that flag burning is constitutionally protected free speech. How could a state prosecute someone for expressing their constitutionally protected political views?

Scary, isn't it?

   Jeff

 

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"For the third time, they don't. Because it violates the establishment clause."

Well then for the 4th time it's wrong.

 

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Originally posted by Project 86
"For the third time, they don't. Because it violates the establishment clause."

Well then for the 4th time it's wrong.

Be specific: do you mean legally wrong or morally wrong?

   Jeff

 

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"No public school I've ever been in or known of has promoted sex before marriage. (Not that abstinence is necessarily the right choice either, just that the schools shouldn't be prescribing morality of that type in either direction.)"

Well my school for one did. Handing out condoms and telling people how it is naturally healthy and never bring up the concern about marriage. Sure if that isn't promoting it what would be? Do they need to say YOU SHOULD HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE until you would agree that they do?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"Be specific: do you mean legally wrong or morally wrong? "

Should be both.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by Project 86
Well then for the 4th time it's wrong.

Edwards v. Aguillard. Look it up. Read the three majority opinions, and the dissent, which doesn't defend "creation science" but makes a technical argument against the majority's decision making method. Then tell us why seven out of nine Justices were wrong, okay?

 

[the worthy one]

Pick one and be honest.

 

"One nation under God, indivisible..."

or...

"One nation, indivisible..."

 

 

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by Not Prince Hamlet
Scary, isn't it?

Yes! Unfortunately, not surprising. I doubt if any of these "pro-God of America" folks have even read the 9th Circuit's opinion, yet they just know it's wrong. So, scary, unsurprising, and sad, in a way.

 

[Annabel Lee]

Originally posted by the worthy one
Pick one and be honest.

 

"One nation under God, indivisible..."

or...

"One nation, indivisible..."

 

 

One nation, indivisible.
Having "under God" included, effectively discounts too many people.

 

[A Sheep]

I happen to live in Canada, so I do not know every single law in the south. I was really asking because 2 or 3 years back I saw on the news that a few people were being arrested for burning a us flag, and I was wondering why they have to make us respect the flag (a piece of cloth) and not the Creator of the universe (your belief in Him is naught)?

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by A Sheep
I happen to live in Canada, so I do not know every single law in the south.

I justice noticed that; I'm sorry. Don't feel bad though. Most Americans know very little about constitutional law as well.

I was really asking because 2 or 3 years back I saw on the news that a few people were being arrested for burning a us flag,

It depends on whatever other activities were involved, and where. They may have been charged with disturbing the peace, not desecrating the flag per se. In the case I cited Johnson was arrested for peacefully burning an American flag outside the Republican National Convention at which Ronald Reagan was speaking, a noble and patriotic act in and of itself, in my opinion.

 and I was wondering why they have to make us respect the flag (a piece of cloth) and not the Creator of the universe

Because the government has no business pronouncing on matters of faith. I can't believe that conservatives (small-c conservatives, not Progressive Conservatives) don't agree with this position. They are supposedly all about getting government out of our faces, but on certain issues apparently they are extremely hypocritical.

 (your belief in Him is naught)?

That is correct. And I certainly don't need the government, of all things, to try and convince me otherwise.

 

[the worthy one]

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
One nation, indivisible.
Having "under God" included, effectively discounts too many people.

True...but I doubt it was that hard to remove "under God" from it for you and it shouldn't be for anyone else. The fact that it is heard is what offends people.

 

[A Sheep]

Then why does the government force the religion of evolutionism on all kids in school?

 

[TheBear]

Originally posted by Not Prince Hamlet


TheBear,

 What is religion-specific about it? It refers to the God of the Abrahamic followers, and excludes Shamanists, Buddhists, Shintoists, Wiccans, Satanists, agnostics, and atheists, to name just a few.

It does? Where does it say all that, in the two words, 'under God'?

 

 

And yes, I am worried about it being overturned by your predominantly Christian Supreme Court. It won't make it right if it happens, nor constitutional.

Hey buddy, I noticed the American flag next to your username. If you are an American, it is your Supreme Court, as well. And, exactly who on the Supreme Court is Christian?

 Just because you've violated the laws of this country countless times doesn't make it right. And I'm sorry, my heart is not breaking that just this one time, Christians don't get a favored religion status.

Once more, exactly where do the words, "under God", give favored status to any specific religion. I'm a little slow on this one, so please help me out.

 

John

 

 

[the worthy one]

Originally posted by A Sheep
Then why does the government force the religion of evolutionism on all kids in school?

Yes and not only are you FORCED to hear it but you must also STUDY it otherwise you suffer the consequences.

 

I don't know about you but I thought schooling was to benefit your life in some sort of manner. Evolution has done nothing to benefit me so I should be able to "opt-out" but yet I was not given that choice.

 

[Satoshi]

Originally posted by A Sheep
Then why does the government force the religion of evolutionism on all kids in school?

Is this comparable to how the government forces the religion of gravitationalism on all kids in school?  Or what about the religions of spherical-Earthism, germism, and atomicism?

Oh wait, science isn't religion.