Pledge Unconstitutional

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by Project 86
not allow a good teaching of Creation to be taught?

Also unconstitutional. Have any of you people ever actually read a Supreme Court opinion?

 

[gwyyn]

yep i have, very dry reading in my opinion

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"It's a nice try, but we're talking about Christianity, not Abrahamic faith. Christianity starts at 0 AD. Anything before that is Judaism"

Being a Christian I sure do study and follow things from Abraham's time so I would have to correct you here. Actually the term Christian wasn't used until after 0 A.D. anyways. That and during those times Jesus coming was talked about in many places. We could get into why laws are followed different since Jesus died for us but that's another thread.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"Also unconstitutional. Have any of you people ever actually read a Supreme Court opinion?"

Well then you better start telling nearly all schools to teach a fair view of Creation. Not 1 paragraph on that then 2 weeks worth of evolution. That and many teachers will get a little snobby when it comes to creation and don't like students questiong evolution. Specially if they make good points.

 

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Originally posted by Project 86
"It's a nice try, but we're talking about Christianity, not Abrahamic faith. Christianity starts at 0 AD. Anything before that is Judaism"

Being a Christian I sure do study and follow things from Abraham's time so I would have to correct you here.

Fine, but you'd be wrong. In fact, the term Christianity was used to differentiate it from the other Jews who did not believe that the Messiah had yet come.

Therefore, the earliest Christianity could be said to have existed would be 0 AD. That's actually being generous, because it's assuming that there really was a person named Jesus Christ who was born in 0 AD. I'm accepting this as an axiom for the discussion, but do not accept it as a "fact" per se.

  Jeff

 

 

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Originally posted by Project 86
"Also unconstitutional. Have any of you people ever actually read a Supreme Court opinion?"

Well then you better start telling nearly all schools to teach a fair view of Creation. Not 1 paragraph on that then 2 weeks worth of evolution. That and many teachers will get a little snobby when it comes to creation and don't like students questiong evolution. Specially if they make good points.

Well, that is a problem. Students should be encouraged to question Evolution. They should be encouraged to question everything. And if Evolution can't withstand such questioning, it's not much good as a theory, is it?

I would happily allow my public schools to teach Creationism ... IF they gave equal time to every single other religion on this planet, and that atheism and agonsticism and all other non-theistic belief systems combined be given equal time as all theistic belief systems combined.

Let's face it, though, it's impractical and it'd be a violation of the separation of church and state. Learn about your religion in church/synagogue/mosque/temple/etc., and learn about your secular science in a secular school

But if you don't want your children to learn secular ways, send them to a religious school, as many Jews do. But don't expect funding from the government: separation of religion and state. It's what our government was founded upon.

   Jeff

 

 

[gwyyn]

LOL I was never taugt evolution till I went to college. My highschool science teacher didn't believe in evolution so didn't teach it, just gave us worksheets to fill out, using the book and that was our grade for the chapter on evolution.

 

[TheBear]

What specific religion is specified in the phrase, "under God"?  I really want to know about this.

The fact is, the overwhelming majority of Americans believe that there is a God.  No religion is specified in connection to 'under God'. No one religion is being promoted over the rest.

Why is it, that the extreme minority gets preference over the overwhelming majority?

Not to worry. This will eventually be overturned by the Supreme Court.

John

 

 

[supermagdalena]

Correct. You don't need the government to do it for you. Isn't that what conservatives believe? I'm suprised the conservatives aren't applauding this decision. It gets the government out of their religious lives. Isn't religious indoctrination what Christian families and preachers are for?

Are you serious?  The Bible tells us that there should be no separation of God and the other parts of our lives.  Period.

Project is right.  My science class taught all the beliefs on creation of Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, etc., but not one mention of Christianity's view.  Evolution is a religion.  People get all mad and defensive if you try to question it.  My Biology book essentially said that Creationism is crap and Evolution is correct, don't ask questions.  My advice for you all: Question what you believe.  How else can you be sure you are correct?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"Fine, but you'd be wrong."

Well sorry but I'm not wrong but you can believe what ever you want so no need to talk about that further with you if your going to just stonewall.

"But if you don't want your children to learn secular ways, send them to a religious school, as many Jews do."

Oh I would if I had kids. In fact I was sent to one in grade school. Costs a ton since taxes don't pay for it. That's what I don't like. I have to pay for things I believe are wrong to be taught to my kids. I have no choices about the money. Dare put God on anything and say it as a group though, that's a NO NO and we can't stand for that even though it ISN'T forced no matter how much you like to pretend it is. You can easily not say it or obmit the God part with anything else. One nation under Darwin maybe in some peoples cases here. I feel sorry for the athiests here since they don't know how bad this is for our society to be rejecting God though so openly. I'm not usually so agressive on these boards but it's been instilled in me that we are at a turning time for our Country and we all need to keep our eyes, ears, and hearts open since there will be things to follow. I'll be praying a lot today for everyone on these boards and our country and it's leaders and I think all Christians need to do the same. This is a serious matter don't think it's not.

 

[A Sheep]

Quick question:

I looked it up, and there is not one instance of the word "flag" in the constitution. So ipso facto it doesn't say that you can or cannot burn or soil a US flag, so where does that law come from and why can it not be overturned like this was?

 

[supermagdalena]

My kids, if I ever have any, they're going into public schooling.  Why?  Because if you put kids into a good, Bible-believing Christian school, they tend to become disillusioned with the world.  I also have the freedom to put my kids into that public school, and they have the freedom of religion in that school!

~emily~

P.S. I've been in both.  Public trains you for adult battles.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by Project 86
"Also unconstitutional. Have any of you people ever actually read a Supreme Court opinion?"

Well then you better start telling nearly all schools to teach a fair view of Creation.

What? I just told you. It's unconstitutional to teach religious creation myths in biology class. "Fairness" has nothing to do with it. If you really wanted "fairness," you'd advocate teaching all the other creation myths, as noted above, in which case you might have a couple of days left at the end of the term to show the kids a plant cell.

 

[Annabel Lee]

I applaud the court for their decision because religious freedom IS important to me.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by A Sheep
Quick question:

I looked it up, and there is not one instance of the word "flag" in the constitution. So ipso facto it doesn't say that you can or cannot burn or soil a US flag, so where does that law come from and why can it not be overturned like this was?

Flag burning was ruled constitutionally protected speech in Texas v. Johnson. Antonin Scalia, arguably the most conservative member of the Court, agreed.

 

[the worthy one]

Evolution (cosmic to biological) religion is trust in man.

Creation (cosmic to biological) religion is trust in God.

 

Faith is faith whether you like it or not.

 

[A Sheep]

What part of the constitution did they say specifically protected it?

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by A Sheep
What part of the constitution did they say specifically protected it?

Er ... the part that protects freedom of speech - the First Amendment. Flag burning is political speech.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Well then D. Scarlatti they shouldn't teach creation at all then. Call Christians view a myth but doing so won't make it into one.

supermagdalena
I been to both public and Christian schools. There is a lot of de-education going on with public schools. Most schools do teach sex before marriage as not a bad thing, evolution is hinted as being the correct choice and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Do you really want that drilled into your kids minds? Even if you did great teaching work with your kids when they are at home they still are at the risk at believing what the teacher says because that's what his teacher says and his peers at school say. I'm talking from experience here, I bought into many lies taught to me but lucky for me I found out only true wisdom comes from God. Not and old text book or even a teacher.

 

[A Sheep]

Is it not illegal in some states to burn a flag?