PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[FoundInGrace]

It's wierd, I fought against believing I had demons for years because I was taught that Christians couldn't have them. Finally it got so bad I realised it had to be a spiritual problem and God delivered me and I could then walk in the freedom He had already bought for me but couldn't before. I sometimes think the people who can't believe in this possibility have never had the depth of struggle and so will never need to understand and really I'm glad for them, but what some call a delusion was what brought me freedom in Christ. Jesus is the answer whichever way you choose to believe.

 

[Cassidy]

It's wierd, I fought against believing I had demons for years because I was taught that Christians couldn't have them. Finally it got so bad I realised it had to be a spiritual problem and God delivered me and I could then walk in the freedom He had already bought for me but couldn't before. I sometimes think the people who can't believe in this possibility have never had the depth of struggle and so will never need to understand and really I'm glad for them, but what some call a delusion was what brought me freedom in Christ. Jesus is the answer whichever way you choose to believe.

So you assume that becasue I think it's all a delusion that I have never struggled? Oh how wrong you are!!! More wrong than you could ever imagine!

You had the freedom all along...friend...you just didn't believe it THAT was your spiritual problem!!!

 

[Optimax]

Jesus is the answer whichever way you choose to believe.

Amen!

This sentence you wrote that is quoted above is the end of all argument.

 

[FoundInGrace]

So you assume that becasue I think it's all a delusion that I have never struggled? Oh how wrong you are!!! More wrong than you could ever imagine!

You had the freedom all along...friend...you just didn't believe it THAT was your spiritual problem!!!

I'm sure you have struggled, all of us do. It was wrong of me to put one kind of suffering over another or to infer that you have not suffered, please forgive me.

My point was that denying there is a spiritual battle in Christian's lives can cause and increase defeat rather than overcome it.
We are secure in Christ but many Christians do live defeated lives full of lust, rebellion, addiction, anxiety, depression etc etc that no matter what they do they can not overcome and sometimes literally there is a demon that once it is got rid of then the walk becomes easier, not easy but easier to stay abiding in Christ.

I literally was blown away when God lifted a whole lot of darkness off my life and the depths of my being were filled with His light instead of the filth that had been there.

Do I understand completely how it works or what happens, no, but I know there were times where I was not in control of my own body and mind and now God has given that back to me.

Again believe what you will, but denying the body of Christ is not taken captive to do what the devil wants at times is.. i dunno.. just not going to be helpful to those who are struggling and need help.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm sure you have struggled, all of us do. It was wrong of me to put one kind of suffering over another or to infer that you have not suffered, please forgive me.

No forgiveness needed...friend...it's all good

My point was that denying there is a spiritual battle in Christian's lives can cause and increase defeat rather than overcome it.

Yes but see this spiritual battle as being something that happens when we believe lies. There'd be a battle going on lies vs truth and the flesh is in enmity with the Spirit so there's always a fight. I just don't believe that Satan comes inside us and captures us since it's God that keeps us body mind and soul...it'd be like me saying that God dropped the ball in allowing a demon to enter. It's all outward. Look at the spiritual issue that Adam put us all in...and his deception was outward...demon didn't enter in. And look at the spiritual issue that Christ took us out of when he wasn't deceived by Satan...again satan didn't enter it.

We are secure in Christ but many Christians do live defeated lives full of lust, rebellion, addiction, anxiety, depression etc etc that no matter what they do they can not overcome and sometimes literally there is a demon that once it is got rid of then the walk becomes easier, not easy but easier to stay abiding in Christ.

I think that when Christians are living this way (the flesh) that Satan does tempt more and deceive us more...and because we are where we are, we believe him more. So in a sense, you're right but that doesn't mean we are held captive though.

I literally was blown away when God lifted a whole lot of darkness off my life and the depths of my being were filled with His light instead of the filth that had been there.

Yes I've been there too. But I also recognise it for what it was....truth replacing lies.

Do I understand completely how it works or what happens, no, but I know there were times where I was not in control of my own body and mind and now God has given that back to me.

No see...God is the one in control...not you and not Satan...that's always been the case, you just didn't see it.

Again believe what you will, but denying the body of Christ is not taken captive to do what the devil wants at times is.. i dunno.. just not going to be helpful to those who are struggling and need help.

I think otherwise. I think too much power is given over the Satan and people are forgetting what Christ died for. They are forgetting that God is able to keep us. When people forget this and believe the lies then they need the truth to set them free from the lies.

But anyway...praise be to God that you are where you are now.

 

[FoundInGrace]

No forgiveness needed...friend...it's all good



Yes but see this spiritual battle as being something that happens when we believe lies. There'd be a battle going on lies vs truth and the flesh is in enmity with the Spirit so there's always a fight. I just don't believe that Satan comes inside us and captures us since it's God that keeps us body mind and soul...it'd be like me saying that God dropped the ball in allowing a demon to enter. It's all outward. Look at the spiritual issue that Adam put us all in...and his deception was outward...demon didn't enter in. And look at the spiritual issue that Christ took us out of when he wasn't deceived by Satan...again satan didn't enter it.




I think that when Christians are living this way (the flesh) that Satan does tempt more and deceive us more...and because we are where we are, we believe him more. So in a sense, you're right but that doesn't mean we are held captive though.



Yes I've been there too. But I also recognise it for what it was....truth replacing lies.



No see...God is the one in control...not you and not Satan...that's always been the case, you just didn't see it.



I think otherwise. I think too much power is given over the Satan and people are forgetting what Christ died for. They are forgetting that God is able to keep us. When people forget this and believe the lies then they need the truth to set them free from the lies.

But anyway...praise be to God that you are where you are now.

We may need to agree to disagree on some things but thats ok, we agree on more than we disagree on.

I do believe demons can enter us, even as Christians, whether that is just into our physical body or into our spirit/soul I'm not sure exactly but I have my reasons for saying that and as was said earlier, either way Jesus is the answer.

I have a lot more freedom now God is merciful in ways I never deserved, yes He is in control, if I didn't believe that I would have checked out of this life a long time ago, so yes praise God for what He has done.

 

[ARBITER01]

Well lets see. So far in the last few days you have categorized me as "swine", "immature" and "a child throwing tantrums" among other things.

Guess this is part of a defense mechanism that is activated when one's position is weak.

Well let's see, I've never categorized you as any of that, unless you felt the need to include yourself in that on your own? I'm not going to retract or feel guilty one way or the other. If you were really paying attention with my comment, I was complimenting you on your maturity with the subject instead of flinging scripture around like a kid, but you can continue to think I meant otherwise if you wish.

And my position has never wavered throughout. People wanted actual scriptural proof stating that a Christian could be possessed, and actually I provided it, whereas the naysayers opposing themselves provided no scripture stating that you couldn't. They presented a lot of conjecture, that was all.

Either way, it doesn't matter much when you get down to it, since the naysayers have no effect on GOD's gift's and those operating in them, and GOD will certainly continue to glorify HIS name through us like HE did through Jesus in those same gifts.

 

[Optimax]

If you were really paying attention with my comment, I was complimenting you on your maturity with the subject instead of flinging scripture around like a kid, but you can continue to think I meant otherwise if you wish.

OK, thanks for the compliment.

 

[pinetree]

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We are adopted as sons of God,we have His spirit,we are not in bondage to a bad spirit!

Stll no scripture from the(i believe in inhabitaion team)

Sounds like there is a free floating doctrine about the forum theses days..

"radio wave entry,copper bracelets keep them away"...

GOSH!....

I will say this,,as some know, I have argued against wof...

Got to give them credit though..

They sure give you alot of scripture when they argue!

Not like some here ...

I have heard alot of theory,conjecture from the other side, on the thread,but thas all...

 

[FoundInGrace]

Luke 13:10-17

10And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

11And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

13And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

17And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Jesus was frequently surrounded by demons during His ministry as people sought healing and deliverance.

The spirits didn't automatically release those people just because He was present - they frequently faced up to him and desired to remain in the afflicted people, He had to take deliberate action to see them off.

Also, the temple in Jerusalem often had evil spirits in it, so why could this not be so in some of our own "temples"?

We, though being infilled by his Spirit, can simultaneously have another spirit within our souls or bodies unless appropriate action is taken to remove them.

FoundInGrace, great testimony, praise God!
And brave of you to share in a hostile environment, God bless you.

 

[Optimax]

Luke 13:10-17

10And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

11And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

13And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

17And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.

This is a great example of Jesus dealing with the spirit of infirmity that had affected a "daughter of Abraham" for 18 years.

However, the person is not a born again Christian.

Jesus had not been to the cross yet, therefore there are no born again Christians at this time.

Can not be because the blood had not been shed, therefore the penalty for sin had not been paid.

Until Jesus dies, was buried, and was resurrected the new birth is not available.

Many examples given in this thread and others of possessed people are also before the cross.

 

[ARBITER01]

This is a great example of Jesus dealing with the spirit of infirmity that had affected a "daughter of Abraham" for 18 years.

However, the person is not a born again Christian.

Jesus had not been to the cross yet, therefore there are no born again Christians at this time.

Can not be because the blood had not been shed, therefore the penalty for sin had not been paid.

Until Jesus dies, was buried, and was resurrected the new birth is not available.

Many examples given in this thread and others of possessed people are also before the cross.

Then you need to do what I was required to do in this thread, post scripture.

I really don't think you can, given the fact that Paul says differently over in Timothy, and we would have Paul contradicting himself, or worse yet, The Lord.

Conjecture is conjecture. Sitting around saying that the blood of Jesus prohibits demonic infiltration on a Christian really proves nothing if you don't have scripture that says anything to back your stance.

 

[Optimax]

Then you need to do what I was required to do in this thread, post scripture.

I really don't think you can, given the fact that Paul says differently over in Timothy, and we would have Paul contradicting himself, or worse yet, The Lord.

Conjecture is conjecture. Sitting around saying that the blood of Jesus prohibits demonic infiltration on a Christian really proves nothing if you don't have scripture that says anything to back your stance.

All you have to do is read the scripture from this incident and the others that are quoted as "proof" of Christian possession".

That very simple exercise(reading the rest of the story) would clearly reveal that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection had not occurred when these events happened.

If Jesus had not been to the cross.

Then there is no new birth available. Simple.

If one has the idea otherwise then please explain how there could be Christians( a person that is born again) before the cross.

 

[ARBITER01]

All you have to do is read the scripture from this incident and the others that are quoted as "proof" of Christian possession".

That very simple exercise(reading the rest of the story) would clearly reveal that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection had not occurred when these events happened.

If Jesus had not been to the cross.

Then there is no new birth available. Simple.

If one has the idea otherwise then please explain how there could be Christians( a person that is born again) before the cross.

Well,.. like I said, post scripture that backs your stance on this. Posturing a stance on here is nothing more than conjecture.

 

[pinetree]

well folks...

It is becoming quite apparent,there is ZERO scriptural evidence is coming forth that even comes close to proving inhabitation in a Christian.

All the scripture I posted,are verses about who we are in Christ,and they are the antithesis of inhabitation.

On a light note....

It seems so strange for believers to grovel,and try to prove something that is sooooo opposite to who we are in Christ!,,,

Often,discernment can run amuck!

 

[Optimax]

Well,.. like I said, post scripture that backs your stance on this. Posturing a stance on here is nothing more than conjecture.

OK!

Maybe this will help you to see what I am saying.

This incident is recorded in the tenth chapter of Luke.

Jesus is alive on earth not having been to the cross.

Lk 13:10-16

10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
KJV

This event is recorded in the 24th chapter of Luke.


Lk 24:1-6
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
KJV


Jesus according to the angel has risen(from the dead).

However, his redemptive work is not finished yet.

Jn 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
KJV

Then this incident is also recorded in John.

Jn 20:20-22

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
KJV


Verse 22 records the first time any one was born again. This group consisted of ten disciples. Judas was not there of course and Thomas was absent.

Read a little farther, Thomas joined the group.

Just reading this little bit of scripture reveals that people were born again(received the Holy Ghost) after Jesus rose from the dead.

Therefore the new birth was not available until then.

 

[ARBITER01]

OK!

Maybe this will help you to see what I am saying.

This incident is recorded in the tenth chapter of Luke.

Jesus is alive on earth not having been to the cross.

Lk 13:10-16

10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
KJV

This event is recorded in the 24th chapter of Luke.


Lk 24:1-6
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
KJV


Jesus according to the angel has risen(from the dead).

However, his redemptive work is not finished yet.

Jn 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
KJV

Then this incident is also recorded in John.

Jn 20:20-22

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
KJV


Verse 22 records the first time any one was born again. This group consisted of ten disciples. Judas was not there of course and Thomas was absent.

Read a little farther, Thomas joined the group.

Just reading this little bit of scripture reveals that people were born again(received the Holy Ghost) after Jesus rose from the dead.

Therefore the new birth was not available until then.

Ok well,... there is a big problem with this, there is no scripture jjustifying your stance that Christians are completely impervious to demonic infiltration.

That is what I'm asking for here. Show me where it states it is impossible.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Arguing that the believer cannot have an evil spirit in them is like arguing that they cannot have a sickness in their body or their soul, or entertain a sinful thought in their mind, because God is there.

According to this theory, that the indwelling Holy Spirit makes it impossible for anything against God to be present in a believer, nobody should ever be sick after coming to Christ. Clearly that is not the case.

 

[Always in His Presence]

1 Cor 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

​

Can the Spirit of God be possessed?