PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[KleinerApfel]

1 Cor 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

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Can the Spirit of God be possessed?

No, and I don't suppose that anybody here is saying or even thinking such a thing.

But although we are joined to him in Spirit, our souls and bodies are not yet made complete in Him - we are still subject to death, unless He returns before that happens, still subject to thoughts that don't agree with His, even to the degree that we sometimes succumb to sin, and still subject to attacks on our physical and mental health.

How could anybody argue that is not so? Even though Christ lives in me, it is possible that sickness can enter and destroy my body, or atatck my mind.

How can anyone deny then that we can also be afflicted in our soul, (mind, will, emotions) by spiritual forces?

 

[ARBITER01]

Arguing that the believer cannot have an evil spirit in them is like arguing that they cannot have a sickness in their body or their soul, or entertain a sinful thought in their mind, because God is there.

According to this theory, that the indwelling Holy Spirit makes it impossible for anything against God to be present in a believer, nobody should ever be sick after coming to Christ. Clearly that is not the case.

Exactly!

When we take those same doctrinal positions that people are claiming here and hold them up against the results of our real Christian life, they fail miserably.

How can people turn a blind eye to the examples before us, I just don't know.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Understanding that there were no Christians before the New Birth (Salvation) was available -

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

​

That would leave examples from the Gospels out - so let's look at Acts and beyond -

Is there any example of a CHRISTIAN being POSSESSED?

The Apostle Paul was certainly vexed because of demonic activity - but it didn't stop him from accomplishing everything God had for him to do. If anything he grew stronger in the struggle.

So what Christian was possessed - I've read all your references and NOT ONE speaks of possession.

 

[JimB]

Here’s my take on it (from another forum).

The idea that believers cannot be demon possessed is true but only because there is no such thing as demon “possessed”. The word “possessed” has been added by English translators to use a popular English term to describe the single Greek word diamonizomai in Greek (you can check me out on your online Strongs, if you like). Some translators feel that the word “demonized” should be used instead of “demon possessed”.

That would change the argument IMO. The question would then be, “Can a Christian be demonized,” and that’s a whole ‘nother subject.

Can a Christian be demonized?

Sure. I’ve met some who must have been.

When I say a Christian can be demonized, I mean that a Christian can suffer from the direct influence of demons. For example, the “daughter of Abraham” (i.e., a lady in covenant with God) in Luke 13.10-12 was obviously affected by a “spirit of infirmity” from which Christ “loosed” her (it does not say ‘healed’ her). And Paul, certainly in covenant with God, spoke in 2 Corinthians 12 of a “minister of Satan” that tormented him (IMO, another spirit of infirmity).

IOW, both were demonized at some level. Of course there are people, like the demoniac of Gadara or the child who suffered seizures, who are so demonized that they sometimes lose control of their own faculties. The English term for that would be “possession” although there is no comparable work for possession in Greek, just diamonizomai.

There is no such thing as demon “possession”, just diamonizomai.

I just have never found in scripture where Christians are exempt from demonization. In fact we are constantly warned in the Epistles to be vigilant and sober against the wiles of Satan.

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[Always in His Presence]

The idea that believers cannot be demon possessed is true but only because there is no such thing as demon “possessed”. The word “possessed” has been added by English translators to use a popular English term to describe the single Greek word diamonizomai in Greek (you can check me out on your online Strongs, if you like). Some translators feel that the word “demonized” should be used instead of “demon possessed”.

http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1139

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]8:16 - [In Context|Original Greek][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill [/FONT]

1. [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]
   [*] to be under the power of a demon.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Translated Words[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]KJV (12) - have a devil, 1; of the devils, 2; possessed with a devil, 1; possessed with devils, 4; possessed with the devil, 3; vexed with a devil, 1; [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]NAS (13) - demon-possessed, 11; demoniacs, 2; [/FONT]





When I say a Christian can be demonized, I mean that a Christian can suffer from the direct influence of demons. For example, the “daughter of Abraham” (i.e., a lady in covenant with God) in Luke 13.10-12 was obviously affected by a “spirit of infirmity” from which Christ “loosed” her (it does not say ‘healed’ her).

Luke 13:10 Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. 11 And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up. 12 But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, “Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity.” 13 And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

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Hmmm...........

I mean besides the fact that she couldn't be a Christian - because there were no Christians at this time.

So she wasn't healed - hmmm......

 

[JimB]

Sigh.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Arguing that the believer cannot have an evil spirit in them is like arguing that they cannot have a sickness in their body or their soul, or entertain a sinful thought in their mind, because God is there.

According to this theory, that the indwelling Holy Spirit makes it impossible for anything against God to be present in a believer, nobody should ever be sick after coming to Christ. Clearly that is not the case.

agree

 

[FoundInGrace]

The Bible says no good thing dwells in the flesh, just my opinion but i reckon thats where demons can enter and reside in us, even as believers, if we are not diligent and submitted to the Lord.

I have literally felt one leave through my throat and mouth. If thats not one being in a person and then leaving I don't know what is. This was after God delivering me from others a few years back when I was filled with the Holy Spirit and a believer and yet still that one only left last year. God is merciful and compassionate in ways I will never deserve. We love Him because He first loved us. I am still humbled by the gentle loving way God handled that. Just in case you were wondering I go to a church that does not go in for all this because I don't want to be around people who see demons in everything.

I know we are not supposed to go on experiences first, and I don't because there is safety and protection in scripture and living within that - and so I count my experiences second in authority, but my experiences also do not contradict scripture. Scripture explains them.

The demonised man in the tombs ran to Jesus. I really like Jesus, Jesus is like an oasis in a dry and weary land.
Ananias and Sapphira, Judas, there's numerous people who were only human and disciples, and they let the evil one get the better of them, through their own sinful desires. And we are only human too. I agree when the Holy Spirit arrives we do have His enabling power that we didn't have before to stand against them and sometimes that is because we haven't known the truth before on something and so when we learn the truth we can stand against the evil one. We can not do that on our own. But there is still the element of being submitted to the Lord and where we are not we can let the devil get a foothold.. and then a stranglehold if we do not listen to God.

I don't think I should post in the debate forum it's not really my style as I'm sure you can tell by this post.. so will go find somewhere else to post.

God bless, may God open all our eyes to more of His truth and grace.
Ciao

 

[jeolmstead]

What I said in the No-debate thread of the same subject:

I for one never use the word possession, I usually say demonized.

I myself was a demonized Christian.

So, having been greatly set free and delivered, what then is to be my testimony?

I’m like the blind man before the Sanhedrin.

“All I know is, I was blind, but now I see”

I have no scriptural problems with my experience, just the opposite!

Now, having said all this, are there excesses? Sure, Anytime “we” are in the mix “we” will show through at times.

I’m just glad and blessed that I got free. If I share, some who need to know might hear. If I don’t share, then, all they will hear are those who have never stood in my shoes.

John O.

 

[Optimax]

Ok well,... there is a big problem with this, there is no scripture jjustifying your stance that Christians are completely impervious to demonic infiltration.

That is what I'm asking for here. Show me where it states it is impossible.

You and I both know there is not a scripture that has the words "a Christian cannot be possessed".

Nor is there a scripture that says "a Christian can be possessed".

There are no examples in the Bible where a born again Christian was possessed.

There are no examples in the Bible where a born again Christian was delivered from possession.

However we can all read the scriptures and learn what happens to a person that is born again.

God is not incompetent!

The Blood was more than enough.

Every New Birth comes complete and intact.

God is a Father God and did not have us, his children, born into His family so that demons had to be adopted.

Yes, a Christian can be troubled by demons, that is part of life.

Scripture says that if God be for me who can be against me, he always causes me to triumph in Christ Jesus. no weapon formed against me will prosper.

For the devil to possess a Christian we are back to the simple questions that you admitted you could not answer.

The scripture backing for "no possession" is strong and mighty.

The scripture given for "yes possession" is mostly examples of people that were not Christians.

Or, a scripture in which "taken captive" does not translate possession.

We all have the right to believe what we want.

The position that a Christian can be possessed is a weak position that uses scripture that is not relevant.

 

[pinetree]

1 Cor 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.


​

Can the Spirit of God be possessed?

 

[pinetree]

These sure say alot....


Luke 24:49
I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

Yes,we have received power over the enemy!


Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

Yes,a Spirit of sonship,not fear.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.



Ephesians 3:16
I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,

Our inner being is strengthened,no room for demons there!

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

I wonder why so many verses about who we are as Gods children,with His son in our hearts.

Yet no teachings in scripture,about Gods children being inhabited.

Yet a teaching about a head coverings for women.

Why the omission of something so important as inhabitation?

1 Thessalonians 5:5
You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

There it is again,SONS of light,not of darkness.
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[pinetree]

It says Christ in me!

Not demons!

Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

 

[pinetree]

Here is an interesting chunk of scripture...

Notice how the demons recognize Jesus,and Paul.

They saw something in them,that they did not see in the unbeliever..

Hmmmmm,could it be the Holy Spirit?

YES!

Who ended up getting their buts whipped?

13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

 

[pinetree]

Oh well friends....

Seems like we have gone full circle....

So far all I have seen on the forum,and elsewhere is teachings about demons entering a Christian through organ transplants,entry through radio waves (unless of course you wear a copper bracelet).

Demons enterring if you sin,etc...problem with that is that we all sin,so that means we are all open to entry!
According to that teaching.

I guess then maybe we should believe if we eat pork,the demons can enter us,because we know they entered the swine..:oThat would match the transplant theory.

So in the end,I did not mess with experience,all I did was to ask for scriptural proof,and apparently there is none.

That proves that this teaching is an unscriptural,unwritten,free floating,man originated doctrine.

Folks are free to believe as they wish..

It is just sad that this stuff is taught on the net,and pulpits.

Thank you all,pinetree.

 

[Elijah2]

Oh well friends....

Seems like we have gone full circle....

So far all I have seen on the forum,and elsewhere is teachings about demons entering a Christian through organ transplants,entry through radio waves (unless of course you wear a copper bracelet).

Demons enterring if you sin,etc...problem with that is that we all sin,so that means we are all open to entry!
According to that teaching.

I guess then maybe we should believe if we eat pork,the demons can enter us,because we know they entered the swine..:oThat would match the transplant theory.

So in the end,I did not mess with experience,all I did was to ask for scriptural proof,and apparently there is none.

That proves that this teaching is an unscriptural,unwritten,free floating,man originated doctrine.

Folks are free to believe as they wish..

It is just sad that this stuff is taught on the net,and pulpits.

Thank you all,pinetree.

Nothing is taught on the net or from the pulpit, so where did you get that from. I think my dear brother you are very narrow-minded and only hone in onto any comment that makes your day, but you completely ignore any honest comments of sensibility that has much commonsense and reasoning.

Sad my dear brother that you are like that, and my spirit grieves for you.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

It says Christ in me!

Not demons!

Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Yes that is so my dear brother, but it appears that your defiance in all of this, seems to be a personal thing, as if everybody is saying that we are talking about you who is blameless, and Spirit-filled that a demon cannot touch you.

Well, thats great mate, but those other 70% Christians are not as so sure as you are, and struggle with their undisciplined life of disobedience, and their sinning as most wayside, stony, thorny Christians do.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Sigh.

Sigh to

 

[brinny]

Oh well friends....

Seems like we have gone full circle....

So far all I have seen on the forum,and elsewhere is teachings about demons entering a Christian through organ transplants,entry through radio waves (unless of course you wear a copper bracelet).

Demons enterring if you sin,etc...problem with that is that we all sin,so that means we are all open to entry!
According to that teaching.

I guess then maybe we should believe if we eat pork,the demons can enter us,because we know they entered the swine..:oThat would match the transplant theory.

So in the end,I did not mess with experience,all I did was to ask for scriptural proof,and apparently there is none.

That proves that this teaching is an unscriptural,unwritten,free floating,man originated doctrine.

Folks are free to believe as they wish..

It is just sad that this stuff is taught on the net,and pulpits.

Thank you all,pinetree.

and that it's actually allowed here on this site

it sounds like a lot of superstition......kinda scary that it's allowed

 

[pinetree]

and that it's actually allowed here on this site

it sounds like a lot of superstition......kinda scary that it's allowed

Hi there fellow wrestler,
Hope all is well..
It is being taught here on the forum!

Go to the sf section.

The "support for the oppressed thread" that you have been on.

Check out page 9, post # 87.

Then it was quoted in post 89.

Take care friend.

I copied the post,and pasted it here.And removed the link.
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Angeloffire

Exorcist

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Join Date: 22nd July 2008
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Wisdom:

Here is an example of a demon transferring from one body to another through an organ transplant. Keep in mind that a demon 'cannot' enter your spirit. You are born again and are a new creature in Christ Jesus. But your body and soul are not recreated yet in His image yet.

The body will become glorified and your soul will be redeemed. I want you to see for yourself how demons transfer and relive their lives through us.

I know it is hard to swallow who demons really are, but read this article for yourself. Notice that in these transplants, that a persons characteristics are carried forward. It is because the demon is being transferred as the flesh in a transplant is kept alive, that they carry what they know and how they influenced the former human they lived in to the next person.

This is proof that demons dwell in our bodies and not our spirits.

I will be posting more information as I go along....and really do have much proof for what I know.

Blessings,

AOF