PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[Optimax]

Nor does satan now since we have the blood of Christ, but if I'm not doing GOD's will, then I'm either doing my will or satan's will, one of the two. If we are doing satan's will, then we are being help captive at that point.

For a Christian, we are sealed to the day of redemption, so no, satan does not get to claim us forever anymore, but he can still deceive us and trick us into sinful things, and according to that passage of Paul's, have us doing his will, and that would be possession at that point.

That is harassment which you term yourself as being deceived and "tricked"

Actual possession is when the demon lives in or inhabits a person and works from within the person, which is the reason for the questions I ask.

Many Christians allow themselves to influenced and/or deceived by demonic things, but again that is external, where possession is internal.

 

[ARBITER01]

That is harassment which you term yourself as being deceived and "tricked"

Actual possession is when the demon lives in or inhabits a person and works from within the person, which is the reason for the questions I ask.

Many Christians allow themselves to influenced and/or deceived by demonic things, but again that is external, where possession is internal.

Our will to do something does not originate from our mind but our heart, so Paul obviously meant something more than just harassment or torment when we are "taken captive" to do satan's will.

I do want to acknowledge something here. When discussing very mature topics like this, it is much better to deal with a mature person instead of the immature one that flings scripture around like a child throwing a tantrum.

 

[Elijah2]

mate..I have said over and over and over...

I never mess with a persons experience...

But..if a strange,anti-cross teahing comes along....

Then is it not fair to ask where this teaching comes from?

Get your eyes on Jesus mate..

Mate my eyes are always focused on our Lord Jesus Christ, and because of my focus on HIM, then my purpose in life is to fulfill His Purpose in my life by healing the broken-hearted, delivering them from evil, setting them free from captivity, healing, casting out demons, and raising the spiritual dead; and most of all pass on understanding and knowledge of the "earthly and heavenly things".

Now that is a simple task that HE has given me and all other members of the healing and deliverance ministry to fulfill.

 

[Elijah2]

curious..

On the forum,or in life in general..Do you ever quote scriptue to people,to explain,or teach something?

Mate!:o

 

[Cassidy]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That is an interesting choice of scripture here since we see Paul asking that this "blameless" aspect be a reality. Quite interesting to see him praying that it be so.

 

[STRICTLY SCRIPTURE]

You have mentioned this scripture many times.

2 Ti 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
KJV

The word "taken captive" is NT:2221.

NT:2221
2. universally, to take, catch, capture: ezoogreemenoi hup' autou (i. e. tou diabolou) eis to ekeinou theleema, if they are held captive to do his will, 2 Ti 2:26
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


Other translations:

2 Ti 2:26
And that they may come to their senses [and] escape out of the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him, [henceforth] to do His [God's] will.
AMP

2 Ti 2:22
that they may return to soberness out of the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him, [returning to soberness so as to serve] the will of that One [God].
(from The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest Copyright © 1961 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. All rights reserved.)

2 Ti 2:26
And then they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the Devil, who had caught them and made them obey his will.
TEV

These are describe in the scripture you quote as being captive, and/or caught, returning to soberness.

The context of this scripture is:

2 Ti 2:24-26

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
KJV


The subject is Christians that enter into strife.

Those that enter into strife oppose themselves.

They are captured by the devil not possessed by the devil.

Notice also that they do not need someone else to deliver them. They must recover themselves by repenting from strife.

I would suggest that until you have sufficient understanding to adequately answer these questions that your arguments in this debate do not have credibility.

Why?

You quote scripture without an understanding of it relationship to the subject.

You admitted that you cannot answer the question.



The questions again.




Go study for yourself until you can see how these things can happen and then you can debate with credibility.

You are correct.

 

[pinetree]

That is an interesting choice of scripture here since we see Paul asking that this "blameless" aspect be a reality. Quite interesting to see him praying that it be so.

your point is not very clear.
In al honesty bro...
It seems like you are trying soooo hard to somehow,find a phrase,or an abstract point,to prove a view,that is not in scripture.

Optimax is clear,and precise in his posts....

 

[pinetree]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yup..
Sounds like God keeps us blameless,not possessed.

 

[pinetree]

Interesting the differences in the translations of this verse. Some try to make it a point that it's God's will we revert to, while others leave it at Satan's will we get trapped by. I wonder which one God really meant when He inspired it?

There is a ministry for helping those who are trapped by Satan's will. It's not that anybody needs another person to mediate between God and man, but that experience and guidance from someone more mature is simply the way it works in pretty much all areas of Christianity. Just like we don't need anyone to teach us the Bible cause we can read it for ourselves; it really helps to have the experience of others to enlighten our way.

So yes, we do "recover ourselves" from Satan's snares. The exorcism of demons is only done by God when He sees fit and the individual is ready; and any Christian from anywhere can be used to command them to go in the name of Jesus. It's the recovery that takes time. And it's nice to have spiritual guidance along the way.

Compare it to drugs. Can a Christian be addicted to illegal drugs? He/she shouldn't be... but we all know that addiction can happen to anyone who lets themselves be taken over by them. Is there a biblical precedence for Christian recovery centers? Some would say "NO!" because we are all overcomers in Christ! But experience tells us that it takes a bit of work to get out of the lifestyle that includes drug abuse. So applied Christianity in this instance is to help those who are too weak to help themselves.



Is there a difference? Maybe so. But the keys to getting set free from the habits and lifestyle that result in these is all the same. We have to stop living in a way that invites demons to want to participate in our lives. That is done by following the path that Christ laid out for us. It's not magic or voodoo or anything mysterious, just good old fashioned Christian living!

I support your right to teach,or share out of experience.
But so far,thats all I have seen on all the threads..

 

[pinetree]

ya know what is really sad...

As I have a moment of soft feelings...

With all thats in the bible,about who we are in Christ.

Sealed with the Holy Ghost,bloodwashed,redeemed,justified,delivered from darkness,etc...

Yet,some seem to try soooo hard,to pick apart phrases out of scripture,to somehow,somehow,convince us that Spirit filled believers can be inhabited...

really kinda sad...

 

[pinetree]

James 4:7
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Not inhabit..

FLEE!

 

[pinetree]

1 John 4:4
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world

We have the victory!

Look what it says,greater is who is in me!

How could there be cohabitation?

 

[pinetree]

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able toseparate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Case closed!

 

[pinetree]

That is an interesting choice of scripture here since we see Paul asking that this "blameless" aspect be a reality. Quite interesting to see him praying that it be so.

Ya know what I notice....

You dont have a clear scriptural idea.

No offense,but you are saying very abstract things,with no biblical support.

On another "spirit" thread,you raised a scholar named John Gill,in an effort to prove a point.

Later we saw that Gill agreed with my view of a said verse.

So lets bring up scholars again..

They dont agree with your latest interptretaions either.

In all humility bro...Most (all) academia dont either,unless they are part of the deliverence scene.

It is nowhere in scripture that a Spirit filled believer can have spirits.
Last edited by pinetree; 20th October 2008 at 12:48 AM.

 

[pinetree]

This shows what Spirit we received!

Sonship!

How could Gods sons,that have the Holy Ghost in them,also have another tenant?

One Spirit per temple please..


Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

 

[Stephen Kendall]

You will be known by your love for one another. This is the qualification. Obedience to Christ. We are fortunate to have the Bible for one basic reason, to help counter the effects of being in the world and to help others to find God through Christ, to find His joy and peace.

Wrangling over ideologies or theologies is abating the knowledge of God. Come on and view things from His perspective. Obey His son, Jesus Christ, and have all the knowledge that you can imagine. Read and listen to the Bible with a heart of obedience and with the patience like that of God Himself.

There is confidence in Christ, but it stands in the truth of our love of God and love of our neighbor, in obeying His son. In the end, the statements that will be given are you obeyed the son of God or you didn't. That is a very hard knowledge to be given and in a bad time for anyone found to be a failure. Our confidence is in our trust of Christ Jesus and to stay with him always. Please have this confidence over your well devised plans.

 

[Cassidy]

That is an interesting choice of scripture here since we see Paul asking that this "blameless" aspect be a reality. Quite interesting to see him praying that it be so.

I guess it's better than throwing down his bat and ball and screaming defeat and renouncing demons!!! Interesting that he even believes that he can be kept blameless by God Body, mind and soul in the first place!....more people need to actually believe this!

 

[Optimax]

Our will to do something does not originate from our mind but our heart, so Paul obviously meant something more than just harassment or torment when we are "taken captive" to do satan's will.

I do want to acknowledge something here. When discussing very mature topics like this, it is much better to deal with a mature person instead of the immature one that flings scripture around like a child throwing a tantrum.

Well lets see. So far in the last few days you have categorized me as "swine", "immature" and "a child throwing tantrums" among other things.

Guess this is part of a defense mechanism that is activated when one's position is weak.

 

[Cassidy]

Well lets see. So far in the last few days you have categorized me as "swine", "immature" and "a child throwing tantrums" among other things.

Guess this is part of a defense mechanism that is activated when one's position is weak.

I don't think it's just you, Optimax, I think it's anyone who doesn't succumb to the deliverance doctrine involving Satan/demons. It's because we are immature and childlike that we haven't yet come the realisation that we need deliverance from demons.

Not that I have a problem with that line of thinking...because it's false and prideful. I'm open to receive revelation from God in regards to these matters and have done! Except my revelations were in line with scripture...and there lies the difference! Maybe that's immature...but I'd rather be immature and know the truth than be wise and believe lies.