Please, Help?

Sarah303

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Hey everyone. I'm a fairly new Christian (slowly turned to Christ within the past year, had a lot to do to get my life back on track, was baptized at the beginning of July).

Getting right to the point of this post, I'm attending a Catholic school (although I'm not Catholic), and religion classes are mandatory. Last year I loved my religion class, it was world religions and I found it fascinating. I was also very blessed to have a teacher who was a strong believer, very compassionate and helped to guide and encourage me.

This year is different. We're studying Christianity...sort of...it's a bit hard to tell exactly WHAT we're doing really. Part of what we've been studying is really easy, like paradigm and paradox, read-this-article-about-why-the-bible-is-still-read-even-though-it's-really-old-and-answer-the-following-questions-to-show-me-you-actually-read-the-article, stuff that could be handed out in even an english class. But I'm having a bit of a problem with some of the things we've been studying, and more than that, the APPROACH that the teacher has been taking. Although she briefly mentioned something about having her own faith one day, a lot of what she's teaching seems to lead AWAY from faith in Christ. We're reminded not to take the bible very literally, told how it's been edited and changed so many times, she refers to things in it as "stories" and it's approached as if they're all fictional, Genesis has been called "imaginative". Then she'll bring up points about something and teach it as fact, and when I question she doesn't seem to have a very good answer as to WHY we should believe what she's saying (while interestingly enough, she's telling us not to believe everything we read/are told). I'm not being very challenging because I don't want to cause problems. A couple of times I've asked about the things we're taught, and she kind of breezes over it, she doesn't explain it well. So I just let it go.

Today we learned about how the first five books of the bible were written by all different authors from all different time periods. She said that traditionally Moses is believed to have written it, but research has proven that that's probably not true. When I asked why some people believe Moses wrote them, and why others believe it was all different authors (so as to gather more information from both perspectives and form my own opinion), I didn't get a very good answer, I didn't get very much of an answer at all.

So, I went home, turned on the computer, and started researching for myself.

I don't know enough at the moment to form my own opinion. What I do know is that from what I've read, it seems to be a controversial issue...something disagreed upon...but she's teaching it as though it's fact that the first five books had different authors. Ironically, God's actual word from other parts of the bible seems to suggest that it was mainly, if not all, from Moses. So I'm not sure at all about this.

I think my teacher is trying to show us that the bible is untrustworthy, because she keeps saying you can't take it very seriously or literally or whatever, that there's truth behind the stories but she doesn't seem to believe that the stories themselves are true. It gets really confusing.

I'm a new Christian. I have faith. I do. But I have some doubt as well. My faith is shakeable. Maybe not breakable (after all, faith is a gift from God, and my faith is in His hands)....but yes, it is most certainly shakeable. This class and the approach the teacher is using seems to be no good for me. I go home with more anxieties, worries, doubts, confusion and sadness than when I walk into her class. I know only the very basics of Christianity. I'm eager to learn, but I don't think I'm ready for this type of approach. I don't think I like this one bit. The truth is, God saved my life. If I had no faith in God I would be dead right now. If I stopped having faith in God, I would go and kill myself very soon. But truthfully, because of God my life has changed like you wouldn't believe. I have joy, I have hope. I lived without any of that for six years. But I still need the basics while I'm learning. I need a teacher who is willing to answer questions. Who tells us different views and opinions and lets us decide for ourselves, not who teaches things as fact without at least telling us there's another side to the story. I'm not sure I'm ready for this yet.

I'm going to ask if I can drop the class tomorrow. But incase I can't, I'd really like some advice. Please. I need to know how to survive this class. I need to know how to keep my faith alive and not come home worried. I can't hear something and accept it as truth without questioning. And my own questioning is hurting my brain. Am I wrong to want to get out of this class altogether? Hmmm....somebody give me some advice, please!!

(And thanks to anyone who does).
 
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DesertSky

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If you can't drop it my advice would be - get the grade and get out. Unfortuantely I've seen many instances where "religion" teachers in Catholic schools are not qualified nor are they supervised. So you're not alone. It's too bad this class is happening while you're so young in your faith. I have 4 sons, all went to Catholic school K-12, and I was shocked a few times by what went on in class, usually religion class. Trust God. Trust the bible. If you are being force-fed something that doesn't feel right, check it as far as you can yourself. But don't let one bad instructor ruin your life.
 
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heymikey80

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This is an opportunity.

Seriously, people, even experts, have wildly differing views of authorship when it comes to the Bible. Their views are a combination of bias, prior experience, education in methodologies, and facts.

You're the student. The teacher is not intended to state the truth without supporting it. A teacher's authority is actually based completely on the trustworthiness of their methods and the facts they bring to bear.

The teacher is not an authority. The teacher is either authoritative, or is not credible.

I'll tell you right now, what most researchers decide is false about a text is not based on deduction, but on inference. Sometimes this inference is persuasive; often it's not. The critical methods used in researching the text express two things: the things that can be most readily established as original, and the things that can't be readily established that way.

We can identify lack of evidence. There is very little evidence of lack, though. It's roughly similar to saying, "Well, I haven't looked in the room but I've noticed everyone's saying it's dark; so it's likely to be dark." You don't know it's dark -- but you can't tell if it's light.
 
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Hiroyuki

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Hey everyone. I'm a fairly new Christian (slowly turned to Christ within the past year, had a lot to do to get my life back on track, was baptized at the beginning of July).

Getting right to the point of this post, I'm attending a Catholic school (although I'm not Catholic), and religion classes are mandatory. Last year I loved my religion class, it was world religions and I found it fascinating. I was also very blessed to have a teacher who was a strong believer, very compassionate and helped to guide and encourage me.

This year is different. We're studying Christianity...sort of...it's a bit hard to tell exactly WHAT we're doing really.


Stick to the teachings of Jesus.

If the word remains in you, He remains in you. Very simple.


Way too much worried thinking which is NOT of God.

That is of the devil.


I am not saying thinking is bad, but this kind is, that which would lead people into disbelief against Jesus.


What is the good work asked of anyone? One. Believe in the One God Sent.

Simple.
 
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razeontherock

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Sarah - welcome to CF!

Your heart for the Lord is evident. I didn't see you mention what level of school you're in, but at the College level the rate at which students apostatize is ridiculously high, (60%?) and it's no different in seminary.

You have now experienced, first-hand, for a fact, that school curricula is designed to cause as many as possible to turn away from Faith. This is specifically targeted at Faith in Jesus. Why? Because it works combating the devil, and he doesn't like to lose.

Really, it's that simple. And you won't get away from it. This life is war! And the battle takes place in our minds, first and foremost. Sorry I can't make that any easier, but I won't lie to you. Support can be found here, and hopefully you also get some from other sources, including a good Bible-believing Church.

What to do? I'm reminded of an old Petra song, "Get On Your Knees and Fight Like A Man." (Don't take offense at the sexist connotation there, just look at the bigger
picture) Did you know prayer is our 7th piece of armor? Many people skip that one. And I have an in-depth study of our second piece, which would probably surprise you to learn all that our breastplate of righteousness entails. It's in the Deeper Fellowship sub-forum, with a title of the same name.

Hebrews 12:27 And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."

"For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
 
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Peripatetic

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Welcome to the family! Don't be too discouraged when you hear conflicting views out there. At this point, just stick to the basics. For example, this forum's statement of faith (shown below) is based on the Nicene Creed, on which most Christians agree. There are also scriptural references that support our beliefs. If you get to know the God as described here, you will actually be ahead of a lot of supposedly "mature Christians".

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

*The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

**May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.
 
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chilehed

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Sarah,

One thing that might be good is for you to get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and when you have a problem compare what she says against the official teaching of the Church. Then you can humbly point out the apparent contradiction and ask her to clarify things for you. USCCB - Catechism of the Catholic Church

Be careful that you aren't misunderstanding what she's saying. "According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church" CCC 115

As for the actual authorship of the Mosaic books, there is indeed some controversy. But remember that the legitimacy of the books as Sacred Scripture doesn't derive from the fact that Moses composed them himself, and it isn't harmed if it turns out that they were written from the recollections of those whom he taught and who remembered his teaching. The legitimacy of the books derives from the fact that they are part of the deposit of the faith that Christ entrusted to His Church, and which has been guarded by His Church under His guidance. Christ's Church has always recognised those books as being a part of divine revelation, and on His authority you can trust that, when the Church authoritatively dogmatized the canon of scripture, Jesus ensured that they made no error.

It certainly is possible that she's teaching things that contradict the true doctrine of the Church - it wouldn't be the first time. We need to keep such instructors in our prayers, and beg Christ to keep them from being a stumbling block to our faith. If you cast yourself onto His care, Christ will use such trials in your life to greatly strengthen your faith.
 
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Sketcher

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Today we learned about how the first five books of the bible were written by all different authors from all different time periods. She said that traditionally Moses is believed to have written it, but research has proven that that's probably not true. When I asked why some people believe Moses wrote them, and why others believe it was all different authors (so as to gather more information from both perspectives and form my own opinion), I didn't get a very good answer, I didn't get very much of an answer at all.
We know it's from Moses, because all of the Jews everywhere can trace it back to Moses. The oldest OT manuscripts I think are 9th century BC - well before the Babylonian captivity, but well after the time of Moses. Much was passed on through oral tradition before the Jews wrote them down. But it all points back to the same divinely inspired message.

One thing that might be good is for you to get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and when you have a problem compare what she says against the official teaching of the Church. Then you can humbly point out the apparent contradiction and ask her to clarify things for you. USCCB - Catechism of the Catholic Church
I agree with this. Do it in the right spirit of course, but this can show her up, and you could even get her in trouble, I would think.
 
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salida

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I would drop that class-this teacher does not know what she is talking about! She needs to do her own research.

The bible is as accurate as the dead sea scrolls.

Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell a former agnostic- (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ and The Real Jesus by Lee Strobel a former athiest. www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/
http://christiananswers.net/


Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
 
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GaryP

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Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)

Bible also mentions the 4 corners of the Earth. Donkeys can talk, Strength is in hair.

Now what?
 
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oi_antz

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I'm going to ask if I can drop the class tomorrow. But incase I can't, I'd really like some advice. Please. I need to know how to survive this class. I need to know how to keep my faith alive and not come home worried. I can't hear something and accept it as truth without questioning. And my own questioning is hurting my brain. Am I wrong to want to get out of this class altogether? Hmmm....somebody give me some advice, please!!

(And thanks to anyone who does).
My first repsonse is don't drop the class! Even if someone isn't Christian, God can use that person's influence in our life to train us. I would say pray to God and consult His answer and only if God says it is a good idea then drop it. We can learn a lot from people who aren't Christian, Christianity isn't the beginning of knowledge or wisdom, it is only the beginning of our personal relationship with God.

So you're having doubts about whether to trust what she believes, that is natural. Don't you naturally have some doubt about what I believe? Doubt is healthy, it is a sign of the mind trusting the conscience over whatever someone is saying.

All the information in the world, including misinformation, can be used by God to support our faith and beliefs, so just accept that you don't agree with what she believes, but also use the opportunity to discover what kind of person she is. It takes all sorts of people to make up the world, and some of them will believe and preach lies, we have no reason to withhold our love and respect for these people, quite clearly they are in the exact position we were once in before coming to know God - born of the flesh but not of the spirit.

There is only one person you should trust in life (well ok, there is Jesus first), but my point was trust yourself. Your soul is alive and in good condition within the presence of God, so trust what it tells you when it is consistent with what God says.

Now we get to the best part: do you know God personally, can you ask a question and get His reply? This is a topic I've been discussing on other forums recently and once you have that relationship with God you'll have no problem discerning what someone says, always referring to the original source of truth the Bible.

You sound like you have some doubts about the authenticity of the Bible, let me tell you that the Bible is spiritual. Any other point of view you take on the Bible will open attack vectors of doubt. So the best way to view the Bible is to get your heart 100% behind this statement:

The Bible is living word, when I open and read this book I will hear God reveal truth to me on a spiritual level. "Lord, I pray that you will enlighten me as I seek to know your truth now."

And then when you trust that the Bible is 100% the word of God, you may open the Bible anywhere having the total faith that God will show you something you never knew before. This revelation will be of the spiritual sort, one person I knew once described it as "I used to read horoscopes like that". Point is that when you offer enough worship to God, then He will be present to minister truth to you on the spiritual level.

If you have this much respect for God's word, you'll not be swayed by any ideas that challenge the authenticity of the collection, since knowledge has no bearing on worship, it is purely a matter of aligning your heart to be receptive to God's voice. The Bible is stimuli for the spiritual voice, because God is a living spirit who speaks to us spiritually, His word is blessed with the divinity of the holy spirit, this is why you will always hear God's voice when you read whereas those who don't believe in God can only see the literal or poetic interpretation of the words, that is not what the Bible is for, it is to stimulate our relationship with God. It is written that the Word is the seed, meaning the resulting crop of a seed in fertile soil is evidence in fruit of the spirits of people who personally know God.

So just accept that although someone doesn't know God personally, you are still capable of learning from what they know, but accepting that some of the beliefs they hold are not based on having personal experience that you and I have had.
 
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oi_antz

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Hey everyone. I'm a fairly new Christian (slowly turned to Christ within the past year, had a lot to do to get my life back on track, was baptized at the beginning of July).

Getting right to the point of this post, I'm attending a Catholic school (although I'm not Catholic), and religion classes are mandatory. Last year I loved my religion class, it was world religions and I found it fascinating. I was also very blessed to have a teacher who was a strong believer, very compassionate and helped to guide and encourage me.

This year is different. We're studying Christianity...sort of...it's a bit hard to tell exactly WHAT we're doing really. Part of what we've been studying is really easy, like paradigm and paradox, read-this-article-about-why-the-bible-is-still-read-even-though-it's-really-old-and-answer-the-following-questions-to-show-me-you-actually-read-the-article, stuff that could be handed out in even an english class. But I'm having a bit of a problem with some of the things we've been studying, and more than that, the APPROACH that the teacher has been taking. Although she briefly mentioned something about having her own faith one day, a lot of what she's teaching seems to lead AWAY from faith in Christ. We're reminded not to take the bible very literally, told how it's been edited and changed so many times, she refers to things in it as "stories" and it's approached as if they're all fictional, Genesis has been called "imaginative". Then she'll bring up points about something and teach it as fact, and when I question she doesn't seem to have a very good answer as to WHY we should believe what she's saying (while interestingly enough, she's telling us not to believe everything we read/are told). I'm not being very challenging because I don't want to cause problems. A couple of times I've asked about the things we're taught, and she kind of breezes over it, she doesn't explain it well. So I just let it go.

Today we learned about how the first five books of the bible were written by all different authors from all different time periods. She said that traditionally Moses is believed to have written it, but research has proven that that's probably not true. When I asked why some people believe Moses wrote them, and why others believe it was all different authors (so as to gather more information from both perspectives and form my own opinion), I didn't get a very good answer, I didn't get very much of an answer at all.

So, I went home, turned on the computer, and started researching for myself.

I don't know enough at the moment to form my own opinion. What I do know is that from what I've read, it seems to be a controversial issue...something disagreed upon...but she's teaching it as though it's fact that the first five books had different authors. Ironically, God's actual word from other parts of the bible seems to suggest that it was mainly, if not all, from Moses. So I'm not sure at all about this.

I think my teacher is trying to show us that the bible is untrustworthy, because she keeps saying you can't take it very seriously or literally or whatever, that there's truth behind the stories but she doesn't seem to believe that the stories themselves are true. It gets really confusing.

I'm a new Christian. I have faith. I do. But I have some doubt as well. My faith is shakeable. Maybe not breakable (after all, faith is a gift from God, and my faith is in His hands)....but yes, it is most certainly shakeable. This class and the approach the teacher is using seems to be no good for me. I go home with more anxieties, worries, doubts, confusion and sadness than when I walk into her class. I know only the very basics of Christianity. I'm eager to learn, but I don't think I'm ready for this type of approach. I don't think I like this one bit. The truth is, God saved my life. If I had no faith in God I would be dead right now. If I stopped having faith in God, I would go and kill myself very soon. But truthfully, because of God my life has changed like you wouldn't believe. I have joy, I have hope. I lived without any of that for six years. But I still need the basics while I'm learning. I need a teacher who is willing to answer questions. Who tells us different views and opinions and lets us decide for ourselves, not who teaches things as fact without at least telling us there's another side to the story. I'm not sure I'm ready for this yet.

I'm going to ask if I can drop the class tomorrow. But incase I can't, I'd really like some advice. Please. I need to know how to survive this class. I need to know how to keep my faith alive and not come home worried. I can't hear something and accept it as truth without questioning. And my own questioning is hurting my brain. Am I wrong to want to get out of this class altogether? Hmmm....somebody give me some advice, please!!

(And thanks to anyone who does).
BTW, if you feel her beliefs are not consistent with yours (it's a good thing to be a free-thinker), why not use the essay to gently enlighten her, as long as it is positive feedback I'm sure she'll esteem you (in other words have a friendly tone in your arguments and conclusions). If you can demonstrate that she's inspired you, even if you have to draw disagreements, that's the type of growth she's looking for in her students ;) good luck!
 
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