Please help: Struggling to understand contribution and financial issues with husband.

[JackieCM]

I am new to this forum -- I just signed up today and I hate that it has come to this (I don't want to go into couples' counseling in person because I feel kind of shy). I have been happily married to my husband for just over a year -- he is a few years older than me (3 years) and we met through college and fell in love and then decided to get married. He majored in engineering and served as a contract technician for the Navy for a year, then came back to work for Sandia Labs as a Program Manager. Through my college experience, I majored in Speech Pathology and I have work as a Speech and Communications Aide for an elementary school.

Needless to say, he is the breadwinner by a longshot -- after tax, there is plenty of money to go around. However, as many times as I have urged him, we have never made a joint account. I believe it would simplify problems and help us collaborate payments for anything that we come across. This is one of my problems with our relationship as I feel that we should share everything together with trust and faithfulness -- we are both Catholics with a strong feeling towards our religious faith (in a positive manner). In fact, we come up pretty evenly on many terms regarding our spiritual side, even though we understand there is individuality with how we may exact our definition in some matters.

His reasons for not having a joint account is rather blunt: "My money will go towards things that are under our jurisdiction, and the rest is by my preference." So, yes, he does pay 100% for our mortgage, for our new car (it's really his but he never argued when I take it), for our insurance, for our bills for the house, and for everything that is essential to run the household (dishwasher soap, laundry detergent, trash bags, furniture). The one thing that I strongly feel as a Catholic woman is that we should give each other humbly with everything we have to give, even by financial means. He bought a new car just recently that went under his name (his reason was that he wanted a new car, but we didn't need one). He traded in his older car for a new one, and I am fine with that. He let's me use it without issues and I still have my old car (it's a Ford Focus) but I would want a new car. I realize that he is right in that I don't need a new car because my Focus runs just fine, but I feel like it's unfair that he goes out to buy a new car and I cannot because I pay for other things, like a new appliance and furniture, and new fixer-uppers for the house.

Which comes to the next issue: If I want something, like a new watch or a laptop or things I might need, and I cannot afford it -- it boils down to my husband on if he is willing to pay for it. He isn't a very open person; communicating with him is extremely black and white. If I ask for a laptop: he will say, just use my laptop, you don't need a laptop now. I cannot afford a nice one or a MacBook, but he has a MacBook Pro for himself. He will constantly remind me that the money that has to go to necessary payments will be automatically done from his paycheck without an issue. But if I want something for my enjoyment, I will have to contribute financially by myself (I contribute already by cleaning, by vacuuming, by dusting, by taking the car to get it fixed up for oil and fluid flushes, I give him attention and we have a great sex life).

Is this right? Should I be angry and frustrated that he doesn't share his money for things I need or for things that I feel like could help with my job? If I wanted to go higher up in my job, I would need to obtain a B.S. and possibly a M.S. for job security. We get into arguments over how we think differently in terms of preparation and looking out to the future. He would say,"Well, I went to college because I wanted security and be able to pay for things I want. You went to college but got a crappy end out of it because you are stuck with a two-year program diploma. We knew that you would have to go back to college." But I really detest the idea of going back to school for two more years. I am workin part-time now and have a lot to do everyday, while he brings in nearly $9,000/month (and that's AFTER deductions by taxes and social security). Isn't he greedy with money? Or am I wrong in this? I feel like this is something that could clash between us when we will have children. He always tell me that financial responsibility is vital before, during, and after raising children in order to secure a good future. But is he being responsible by withholding what is OUR money?

 

[MountainBluebird]

I think this sounds a little like financial abuse, but it could also be that you two are just new at learning how to do your finances together. I can understand why you would be frustrated and angry about this.

 

[ParentofChildren]

When a couple marries they become one in every sense of the word. Did you discuss; health, home, careers, friends, spending preferences, children, sex, etc... before marriage? If he can not meet all your fin needs, then maybe you should talk with him about employment out of the house. Money is the root of most marriage mahem, .... please tread slowly

 

[ProudMomxmany]

I am new to this forum -- I just signed up today and I hate that it has come to this (I don't want to go into couples' counseling in person because I feel kind of shy). I have been happily married to my husband for just over a year -- he is a few years older than me (3 years) and we met through college and fell in love and then decided to get married. He majored in engineering and served as a contract technician for the Navy for a year, then came back to work for Sandia Labs as a Program Manager. Through my college experience, I majored in Speech Pathology and I have work as a Speech and Communications Aide for an elementary school.

Needless to say, he is the breadwinner by a longshot -- after tax, there is plenty of money to go around. However, as many times as I have urged him, we have never made a joint account. I believe it would simplify problems and help us collaborate payments for anything that we come across. This is one of my problems with our relationship as I feel that we should share everything together with trust and faithfulness -- we are both Catholics with a strong feeling towards our religious faith (in a positive manner). In fact, we come up pretty evenly on many terms regarding our spiritual side, even though we understand there is individuality with how we may exact our definition in some matters.

His reasons for not having a joint account is rather blunt: "My money will go towards things that are under our jurisdiction, and the rest is by my preference." So, yes, he does pay 100% for our mortgage, for our new car (it's really his but he never argued when I take it), for our insurance, for our bills for the house, and for everything that is essential to run the household (dishwasher soap, laundry detergent, trash bags, furniture). The one thing that I strongly feel as a Catholic woman is that we should give each other humbly with everything we have to give, even by financial means. He bought a new car just recently that went under his name (his reason was that he wanted a new car, but we didn't need one). He traded in his older car for a new one, and I am fine with that. He let's me use it without issues and I still have my old car (it's a Ford Focus) but I would want a new car. I realize that he is right in that I don't need a new car because my Focus runs just fine, but I feel like it's unfair that he goes out to buy a new car and I cannot because I pay for other things, like a new appliance and furniture, and new fixer-uppers for the house.

Which comes to the next issue: If I want something, like a new watch or a laptop or things I might need, and I cannot afford it -- it boils down to my husband on if he is willing to pay for it. He isn't a very open person; communicating with him is extremely black and white. If I ask for a laptop: he will say, just use my laptop, you don't need a laptop now. I cannot afford a nice one or a MacBook, but he has a MacBook Pro for himself. He will constantly remind me that the money that has to go to necessary payments will be automatically done from his paycheck without an issue. But if I want something for my enjoyment, I will have to contribute financially by myself (I contribute already by cleaning, by vacuuming, by dusting, by taking the car to get it fixed up for oil and fluid flushes, I give him attention and we have a great sex life).

Is this right? Should I be angry and frustrated that he doesn't share his money for things I need or for things that I feel like could help with my job? If I wanted to go higher up in my job, I would need to obtain a B.S. and possibly a M.S. for job security. We get into arguments over how we think differently in terms of preparation and looking out to the future. He would say,"Well, I went to college because I wanted security and be able to pay for things I want. You went to college but got a crappy end out of it because you are stuck with a two-year program diploma. We knew that you would have to go back to college." But I really detest the idea of going back to school for two more years. I am workin part-time now and have a lot to do everyday, while he brings in nearly $9,000/month (and that's AFTER deductions by taxes and social security). Isn't he greedy with money? Or am I wrong in this? I feel like this is something that could clash between us when we will have children. He always tell me that financial responsibility is vital before, during, and after raising children in order to secure a good future. But is he being responsible by withholding what is OUR money?

Ummm...this is MESSED UP!!!!
We have three accounts. Mine, his and ours. The joint one has bill money in it. His account is for his "stuff" and mine is for my "stuff". I also pay for the kids' school and sports out of my account. That way if I want to get my nails done, get my car worked on or whatever, I don't have to ask. He is also free to spend whatever out of his account. The joint account, after bills are paid is usually down to zero. The funny thing is that the great majority of our income is due to an inheritance that I got about 20 years ago. However, the way we do it is that we both contribute to the joint account for bills and then the rest is split between us.

He is NOT being responsible by thinking he can buy himself toys and deny you anything. Having some money put back IS responsible but being a selfish jerk is not. Also...the cracks about your education are unacceptable. It is not his place to say those things. I'd advise going to see your parish priest at the least. Do you have a "mentor couples" sort of ministry at your church? That may help too...where your husband can learn what being a Christian husband is really all about.

 

[ValleyGal]

It sounds like there is a clash in values. He has an idea of what is important to spend money on, and probably feels like since he is the breadwinner, he is the one who should decide what it's spent on, without influence from you. Since he makes a lot of money, why are you the one paying for "other things, like a new appliance and furniture, and new fixer-uppers for the house" and then have nothing left to spend a few hundred dollars on a new computer? No, that makes no sense to me. It sounds to me like he may be trying to make you financially dependent on him. Is there any way you can increase your hours at work? I know getting a BS seems like a lot of work and time investment at your age, but what if you work on it gradually, like one or two courses per semester, which still gives you time to work part time and still do the housework you currently do? I never got a degree when I was young and eventually came to regret it. I returned to college in my 40's for a degree.

 

[JackieCM]

My husband devised a paying method for our bills in a way he thought was fair. He said that 50% of our income should cover the necessary expenses as a baseline, so he pays out about $4,500 for our bills and the car payments and any random necessary bills; my split of 50% amounts to just over $1,000 per month. He said that since he makes more, he will pay the difference if there are any bills left to be paid. I don't know, I feel guilty not being able to pay more out of my paycheck for things we need -- he doesn't put me down or argue with me about things like "I wish you could pay more, I wish you could take more responsibility with the bills" but I also think it is because he makes more money than he minds to pay for necessary things. Sometimes I wonder if he actualy spends all of his money (he is gone often for his job and drives a gas hog of his new Jeep Wrangler) and it is very stressful as he coordinates and supervises developing/testing for machines/nuclear work.

Bottom line is that he doesn't seem open to sharing money with us, regardless of how much we both make. I feel kind of "gold-digger"-ish to ask him to buy me things (and he does from time to time), and when I pay for furniture or for things to fix up the house, I do it because I want to, but he doesn't see much of a need. Whenever there's something that's off or broken, he has great skills to fix almost anything, which is nice.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Ok...you said he makes 9000/mo. You use half of that for household bills. That leaves 4500/mo. 50% of that is 2250/mo. If he's only giving you a grand you're getting cheated out of 1250/mo.

Bubba better learn how to do his sums better...if he's an Engineer, I'd seriously be worried about his calculations.

 

[ValleyGal]

PM, I think what she's saying is that each of them contributes half their income to the home - 4500 for him, and just over 1000 for her. But I don't think he gives her any money at all unless she asks for it.

If that's a correct understanding, it bothers me that he now has 4500 disposable income that he can play with every month because that's what's left over from his 9000 cheque. But she only has just over 1000 disposable income after she pays her half. So it would be very easy for him to go buy a new car with huge payments, but if she's only working with 1000 per month, a new car would eat half of that up, leaving her with nothing.

Imo, the whole set up is very inequitable. She should not have to ask her husband for money for a new watch or laptop.

It would make more sense to pool all the money into one account and each get a spending allowance of 1000 per month. Whatever accumulates in the joint account could then be spent on things like new cars, vacations, and other things the family would benefit from. That would be a whole lot more equitable, and would not make the earning disparity so obvious all the time. What a shame to have to feel like you are living in poverty when the household income is more than 10,000 per month!

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Ok...I can see where I misread some of the post...this is what happens when you keep an active toddler all weekend (had our grandson from Friday to last night).

However, I do agree that he has some sort of control issue over money. I still would strongly suggest a counselor.

 

[Hetta]

After reading your post I would strongly suggest that you get over your reluctance and go back to school so that you have the money to buy things that you want. And that's fine to go to counseling, but to be married for a year and have to ask your husband for money because he's not willing to have a joint account - that's pretty sad behavior on his part.

It worries me that it seems that everything is in his name: the bills, the mortgage, the decent vehicles. These things should be held in joint names.

Have you ever gone into debt or abused credit cards to where he doesn't trust you? Or is he just an untrusting person in general?

 

[MountainBluebird]

Having $1000 dollars a month to do with whatever you want is so, so far from poverty level! I would feel wealthy with that type of spending money.

 

[Hetta]

Having $1000 dollars a month to do with whatever you want is so, so far from poverty level! I would feel wealthy with that type of spending money.

I think she meant that $1,000 is her contribution to the bills. That's how I read it anyway.

ETA: I re-read. She pays $1,000 and has $1,000 left over. It sounds like a lot, but it depends on where they live and whether she pays for her own gas, lunches, car payment etc. Either way, he has four times that leftover. It's the inequity that bothers me - and the idea that she doesn't have her name on the house or bills.

 

[JackieCM]

I agree with you that I need to go back to college to just finish two more years; I am seriously considering it. I brought this up to my husband last night and he was happy to tell me that he backs that 100% percent -- he said that the expenses can be figured out by any financial aid, but he thinks that we would not get much because he has a high income. So, he said that he is willing to pay for anything left over for college and I can use my money to manage other things.

As for the bills and the ownership, my name is on most of those bills with him -- mortgage, electricity, water, insurance... But as I said before, he puts down 50% from his paycheck to handle a majority of the bills while I put down 50% as well, but only paying a small amount. He told me that he thought that he is being generous -- he explained that another way of paying the bills would be to put take out half of our individual paychecks into paying off the bills, and then he would pay any other bills left over with a portion of his paycheck that amounts to being some percentage higher than I would pay, equal to how much higher his paycheck is compared to mine. Then he told me, "But I wanted to instead just use my money to pay the difference so you can keep any money you have after paying 50% of my salary." It seems like he realizes that I don't have much money.

Then, I brought up the joint account issue. I told him that it might be fair for both of us as a couple to have a surplus of money to use and to pay for things other than the needed bills. To that, he simply said that he will think about it but also thinks that the money he makes is something that he deserves to make -- "I earned it." And when it came to my income, he said, "You can do anything you like in your life; go back to college, whatever, etc. And whatever money you make, you can chose what to do with it as long as the necessary stuff is taken care of." And he went on to talk about that he works 12 hours a day, at work or at home, and it felt like he was guilting me a little.

I know he works a ton, he's a great husband -- faithful, very smart, helpful around the house, he takes care of me but he gives me independence as well. My biggest gripe is not having a joint account. He mentioned earlier last night that he was thinking of having additional accounts for saving up money -- one is a financial security ("Something to put into retirement, maybe." he said) and one for college for any kids we may have. But whenever I bring up a joint account, he just shrugs. I never been in debt nor owe anyone money; he just shys away when I bring it up.

 

[ValleyGal]

It sounds to me like you both need a good financial planner. I agree with Bluebird - it's a lot of money leftover for disposable income more for him than you. If you have a financial planner, they can help you set up a budget and figure out how to start saving for the future. Believe me, life can change in the blink of an eye, and you want to prepare for that. Also, I'm not sure why you would want to be making so many payments on things. He makes a lot of money. Why not save up a couple thousand a month for two years, then there's a huge sum of money he can pay cash for a vehicle. Or make extra mortgage payments and pay off your house sooner. Why pay for interest when you don't have to? And yes, start investing.

I don't know how it works where you live, but where I live, no matter how much a husband and wife contribute to the marital finances, when a couple divorces, they split it 50/50. So whether you are together or not in 50 years, all the money will eventually be for both of you anyway.

 

[Hetta]

I agree with you that I need to go back to college to just finish two more years; I am seriously considering it. I brought this up to my husband last night and he was happy to tell me that he backs that 100% percent -- he said that the expenses can be figured out by any financial aid, but he thinks that we would not get much because he has a high income. So, he said that he is willing to pay for anything left over for college and I can use my money to manage other things.

As for the bills and the ownership, my name is on most of those bills with him -- mortgage, electricity, water, insurance... But as I said before, he puts down 50% from his paycheck to handle a majority of the bills while I put down 50% as well, but only paying a small amount. He told me that he thought that he is being generous -- he explained that another way of paying the bills would be to put take out half of our individual paychecks into paying off the bills, and then he would pay any other bills left over with a portion of his paycheck that amounts to being some percentage higher than I would pay, equal to how much higher his paycheck is compared to mine. Then he told me, "But I wanted to instead just use my money to pay the difference so you can keep any money you have after paying 50% of my salary." It seems like he realizes that I don't have much money.

Then, I brought up the joint account issue. I told him that it might be fair for both of us as a couple to have a surplus of money to use and to pay for things other than the needed bills. To that, he simply said that he will think about it but also thinks that the money he makes is something that he deserves to make -- "I earned it." And when it came to my income, he said, "You can do anything you like in your life; go back to college, whatever, etc. And whatever money you make, you can chose what to do with it as long as the necessary stuff is taken care of." And he went on to talk about that he works 12 hours a day, at work or at home, and it felt like he was guilting me a little.

I know he works a ton, he's a great husband -- faithful, very smart, helpful around the house, he takes care of me but he gives me independence as well. My biggest gripe is not having a joint account. He mentioned earlier last night that he was thinking of having additional accounts for saving up money -- one is a financial security ("Something to put into retirement, maybe." he said) and one for college for any kids we may have. But whenever I bring up a joint account, he just shrugs. I never been in debt nor owe anyone money; he just shys away when I bring it up.

Okay, well I am relieved that your name is on the bills.

Has another woman ripped him off financially? I'm just puzzled about that.

IMO, and all couples are different, money should be shared, just as everything else should be shared, and one partner or the other should not be going cap in hand when they have expenses. I can see that becoming a real problem later, when and if you have children, because you won't be working for at least a period of that time, so what then? You have to ask him for everything? Know what I mean?

I don't know. We've always had a joint account and everything we have is willed to each other first (kids second), but we trust each other to be sensible with money. No big purchases without joint agreement, etc. It sounds as though he doesn't trust, and there must be a reason for that. (And I know it's not about you, you've made that clear.)

 

[Odetta]

You say he's taking care of you, but in my mind he is not. Marriage is not 50/50. It's 100/100.

In my family, all the money is "our" money. We have one account. We decide together where the money goes. Yes he's gets to spend some on himself, and yes, I get to spend some on myself, and we try to keep it equitable over the long haul, but sometimes depending on the personal need/want, one may spend more than the other in any given month. In terms of income, some years I made more. Currently, I work part-time to have more time to take care of the kids, so he makes more. But it doesn't matter, because it's all one pot.

What happens if you have children and want to stay home with the kids? Will that even be a possibility? Or will he expect you to continue to work to support yourself? What happens if mismanages his money, or loses his job, or takes a pay cut and can't afford all the bills he pays? Your credit gets trashed as much as his does, since your name is on things too, but you don't get to share in the upside.

I'm a financial planner, and I can tell you that it is much more difficult to plan for people's financial future when the spouses are thinking their financial futures are separate from each other (which is how your husband seems to be thinking). Because some things legally can't be separated. For instance, for many retirement plans if it is an ERISA plan (and you can ask the plan sponsor - usually the employer - that), which while legally has to be in individual names, because of ERISA laws, he cannot name someone other than you as the beneficiary on his account, without you signing off on that in front of a notary. If he ever asks you to do it, do NOT! You are also automatically entitled to social security benefits based off of his income (if it is higher than what you would be entitled to on your own earnings history). That's even if you divorce, as long as you two were married for 10 years. You are protected in that area, because there is no way he can ask you to sign off on that.

You two need marriage counseling, and he needs some mentoring on what it means to take care of one's spouse. This is a very serious issue.

 

[ValleyGal]

Your credit gets trashed as much as his does, since your name is on things too, but you don't get to share in the upside.

Excellent point, and one worth serious consideration.

Another concern is your husband seems to think he's being fair and generous, when it's absolutely not equitable. It sounds like you work harder than him at home because you work part time. But does that mean your work at home is not as valuable as his income? It sounds to me like he's only basing his ideas on the bottom percentage line, and not taking the whole marriage into context.

My husband did not work for the first 2.5 years of our marriage because he emigrated and I sponsored him. I made all the money and paid for everything. He spent money without asking - and I absolutely did not make him ask. Imo, that would have been using money as a matter of power positioning. Just because I am the one who went to work every day does not mean my income is any less his than it is mine.

When two become one, it is no longer about "his" and "hers" but rather about "ours." There is one scenario that I think needs to be considered - children from prior marriage. Imo, their inheritance should be ensured and protected by making a will, that the new spouse can't access or make claim to in the event of divorce or death. However, that does not seem to be an issue in the OP.

 

[JackieCM]

He is concerned about our future as far as children goes -- he wants them to live their lives to the fullest, especially in this economy and how difficult it is to balance getting a degree, having a full time job, qualifying for insurance, and the like. I think his opinion on me taking off work to care for the kids for a couple of years is that he will pay for everything for the kids and will buy for things that I want or need until I get back to work.

As for divorce! NO, I could not ever divorce him or annul our marriage. It is not only that we are both devout Catholics (my husband is a man of his word) but a year and a half ago, when we were only engaged and he was working overseas under contract for the Navy, he told me that when he gets to work later at Pantex or McDermott-Sandia National Labs, the paycheck will be big. He brought up a prenuptial agreement plan for us when we get married and explained it to me as protection for both him and me. He said it would protect both of our assets and it's for ensuring both him and I take out of the marriage what we went in with, and it would equitably distribute our assets gained during our marriage. He even discussed about seeing a CPA or a lawyer to better inform me of this.

However, he kind of gave me an ultimatum: He directly told me that he does not ever want to have a legal divorce, for reasons pertaining to his faith in us and how much he trusts me. He said that if I can agree to that, that I will never file for divorce unless it because of something like insane, like sexual assault or beating up a child, then he will not go through with the prenuptial agreement.

So, I said no, of course not. I've been with this man for three years, one year married. He hasn't changed at all, he's the same guy. So, I most definitely want to be with him. With a joint account, he just says that he wants us to keep afloat and make sure it's always a positive in the bank. Maybe he doesn't trust me with handling money, especially when it's a large sum, but I know that there are consequences to spending so much.

I am not too worried about him losing his job... His work performance reviews are excellent and I have seen him plan out algorithms over the next few years on our budget. He also has two Professional Engineer licenses alongside with certifications in IT work/Information Security; he is a very reliable person as a program manager for his "team" at work. I mean, he might as well be a financial planner or what he told me, a Bank Account Executive since that what he wanted to do when he started college -- he has an amazing skill with math, interest, taxes, long term and short term loans and such the like. We have never went into debt and if anything, our money is being saved up -- I checked the balance book on his account and he has a lot saved up. He's a bigtime saver and I appreciate that about him because our life isn't exactly cheap -- we live in a smaller suburban area next to Austin and our house has it's drawbacks of higher payments due to the area.

The main thing, I want to convince him to get a joint account. I think he is willing, but I need to push him. Thanks for all your help so far!

 

[Hetta]

So I'm confused - you signed the prenup? Sorry, I don't see how that protects you when he makes four times what you make. It seems to me to be a part of the whole protecting his money for himself.

I don't think you should divorce him - I don't know where that came from - but counseling should be considered.

 

[JackieCM]

Well, Odetta brought divorce up and I wanted to address the issue in a way to say that we both do not want divorce. I am in love with him, he is attractive and reliable and supports us.

No, I did not sign the prenuptial agreement because I told him, "Of course not, I would not divorce you!" And he let go of the prenup because we don't plan on divorcing.