Please HELP! OCD and Faith/Belief and Treatment

[Isaiah535]

Hello, I would like anyone whom has experienced the same OCD theme to please share with me. I was diagnosed in October with severe OCD. I have went through 7 years of agonizing pain/hell. It got so bad and I was so hopeless at one point I considered suicide. The theme I had began with the thought I was doubting God's existence, the Bible is the word of God, and Jesus was really God(Son of God). My other thought was the consequence of not having Faith would be eternal damnation. Until now (seven years later), I never knew I had OCD. For the last seven years I did extensive study of apologetics thinking it would "convince me" and remove the doubt. I prayed it would go away, I met with Pastoral staff and strong Christian brothers/sisters for assurance and prayer. I did quite a bit hoping it would go away. At first I viewed my position as I believe but have doubts. The worst damage was the past couple of years where I viewed my position as I am trying to believe (and really don't know if I believe). I think a couple of years of telling myself perhaps I don't believe (but I want to) has done some serious damage. I have never had a desire to leave Christianity. My goal has always been to believe and enjoy serving, worshipping, following and growing with God. Anyone having walked in my shoes knows that it is nearly impossible to have "joy" going through this nightmare.

I had a first appointment with an OCD specialist, Steven Phillipson. I wanted to hear what he thought. He believes I can be helped. Since I can't afford his rate, I will see Jordan whom Steven believes will be able to help me. I was told by Dr. Phillipson things such as my faith has never changed and I am just as devout a Christian as I always was. I understand how the OCD theme works now. I get that for seven years I have been acting in desperation upon an illusion and thereby creating an even bigger illusion. I understand how the treatment works at a high level. All that makes sense now.

The part that worries and terrifies me is what does a successful treatment mean. Sure, it can mean the thoughts don't come often and when they come I don't have the same reaction (anxiety, fear, etc.). That I get and understand. The part that scares me is where will my faith and belief be? These are my questions for those whom have went through this. Honestly, given the illusion for seven years and me saying to myself for a few years perhaps I don't believe and fighting to believe....I wonder when the dust settles where will that leave me. It is easy for the Dr. to say, "don't worry, you are the same person you were 7 years ago in your faith/belief."

At this point today, whenever I read the Bible I experience intense anxeity. The same is true during Bible studies. The thought that used to pop in my head was, "did that really happen?" Dr. Phillipson has said I need to read the bible saying, I don't know if that happened, but I am going to choose to believe. Conceptually this makes sense...but I am trying to understand how do I choose to believe.

1) Did anyone experience this and was the OCD treatment successful?
2) It seems since the treatment goal is to supress OCD theme reoccurence thoughts and psychological and biological response, it doesn't really "make you believe" anymore than you currently feel you do. Dr. Phillipson said feelings are irrelevant because they are based on a brain malfunction. I realize that is the case today...but I didn't think to ask him if he means I should never attempt to measure whether I believe by feelings. Can somebody explain how the whole Faith / Belief part worked out after treatment. I am scared what if treatment reduces all the thoughts and reactions but I sense I still read the Bible with serious doubt or unbelief.
3) Lastly, I ask for prayers. God knows who I am behind this user id. I don't ask for prayers of reassurance because I understand that is giving into the illusion. I ask for prayers that the treatment works and I come out of this with a strong faith.

I am in a lot of pain and don't feel so hopeful. I tried taking two SSRIs but I had horrible reactions (extreme depression, unbearable insomnia, severe panic/anxiety).

 

[Isaiah535]

Also, I am not asking for "reassurance" about my faith. Which I am not supposed to do. I am asking about the treatment to address this "misfiring" in my brain. I just wanted to clarify that. I have stopped asking everyone (that I used to) and also asked them to not ever mention anything of the kind. I did ask them to pray for a successful treatment...which I view as a different thing entirely. You can tell me if you think that is wrong??

 

[gracealone]

Hi Isaiah,
Wow... can I relate to what you are saying here!! There is so much I'd like to share with you. First off, I feel very strongly that it is a huge blessing that you are working with Dr.'s who really understand your type of OCD. Some of the best in my opinion. Dr. Phillipson's articles and counsel on OCD was a huge part of my being able to get over this exact kind of OCD. So stick with the process. God can and does work through physicians to help his children. I'm going to PM you later on today to share a bit more about my experiences with this kind of OCD.
Praying for you.
Mitzi

Hello, I would like anyone whom has experienced the same OCD theme to please share with me. I was diagnosed in October with severe OCD. I have went through 7 years of agonizing pain/hell. It got so bad and I was so hopeless at one point I considered suicide. The theme I had began with the thought I was doubting God's existence, the Bible is the word of God, and Jesus was really God(Son of God). My other thought was the consequence of not having Faith would be eternal damnation. Until now (seven years later), I never knew I had OCD. For the last seven years I did extensive study of apologetics thinking it would "convince me" and remove the doubt. I prayed it would go away, I met with Pastoral staff and strong Christian brothers/sisters for assurance and prayer. I did quite a bit hoping it would go away. At first I viewed my position as I believe but have doubts. The worst damage was the past couple of years where I viewed my position as I am trying to believe (and really don't know if I believe). I think a couple of years of telling myself perhaps I don't believe (but I want to) has done some serious damage. I have never had a desire to leave Christianity. My goal has always been to believe and enjoy serving, worshipping, following and growing with God. Anyone having walked in my shoes knows that it is nearly impossible to have "joy" going through this nightmare.

I had a first appointment with an OCD specialist, Steven Phillipson. I wanted to hear what he thought. He believes I can be helped. Since I can't afford his rate, I will see Jordan whom Steven believes will be able to help me. I was told by Dr. Phillipson things such as my faith has never changed and I am just as devout a Christian as I always was. I understand how the OCD theme works now. I get that for seven years I have been acting in desperation upon an illusion and thereby creating an even bigger illusion. I understand how the treatment works at a high level. All that makes sense now.

The part that worries and terrifies me is what does a successful treatment mean. Sure, it can mean the thoughts don't come often and when they come I don't have the same reaction (anxiety, fear, etc.). That I get and understand. The part that scares me is where will my faith and belief be? These are my questions for those whom have went through this. Honestly, given the illusion for seven years and me saying to myself for a few years perhaps I don't believe and fighting to believe....I wonder when the dust settles where will that leave me. It is easy for the Dr. to say, "don't worry, you are the same person you were 7 years ago in your faith/belief."

At this point today, whenever I read the Bible I experience intense anxeity. The same is true during Bible studies. The thought that used to pop in my head was, "did that really happen?" Dr. Phillipson has said I need to read the bible saying, I don't know if that happened, but I am going to choose to believe. Conceptually this makes sense...but I am trying to understand how do I choose to believe.

1) Did anyone experience this and was the OCD treatment successful?
2) It seems since the treatment goal is to supress OCD theme reoccurence thoughts and psychological and biological response, it doesn't really "make you believe" anymore than you currently feel you do. Dr. Phillipson said feelings are irrelevant because they are based on a brain malfunction. I realize that is the case today...but I didn't think to ask him if he means I should never attempt to measure whether I believe by feelings. Can somebody explain how the whole Faith / Belief part worked out after treatment. I am scared what if treatment reduces all the thoughts and reactions but I sense I still read the Bible with serious doubt or unbelief.
3) Lastly, I ask for prayers. God knows who I am behind this user id. I don't ask for prayers of reassurance because I understand that is giving into the illusion. I ask for prayers that the treatment works and I come out of this with a strong faith.

I am in a lot of pain and don't feel so hopeful. I tried taking two SSRIs but I had horrible reactions (extreme depression, unbearable insomnia, severe panic/anxiety).

 

[turned around]

Hi,
I have had some tragic episodes with ocd symptoms. When I think back if ocd was latent in me it never manifested until I got in organized religion. What I mean is I would get involved in something like karate when I was a kid. It consumed me but, I went back to reality no long term lingering affects. I could transition back into life. There were imbalances but I could snap out of them.

Then I got saved and at first Christ revealed to me his grace, and no signs of punishing ocd symptons. I stepped into a live that was to good to be true. I may been showing signs of a obsession setting in but, could it have been averted if I stayed in his grace. I think the answer is yes. Once I became indoctrinated with works based religion the wheels started falling off. I got married and my wife had a child from a previous relationship. I thought I committed by marrying her. The marriage fell apart, I continually obsessed that I committed adultery. Then I got so angry I tried to blaspheme the Spirit, and for over years those thoughts consumed me.

Now I rebel from Christ and start to hate(works of the flesh) drug addiction, boozing, and I crashed.Christ rescues me by his grace, and things turn around. I get back into organized religion, and mean Mr. LCD shows back up in spades. I would estimate that 20 yrs. Of my life have swallowed OCD episodes. This is since I was saved. I see a correlation between my ocd flare ups and being under ministries that preach works and not grace.

Its taking time be detoxed from based teaching(it produces shame, fear, guilt, performance) which I believe caused latent ocd in me to have field day. What strengthens the adamic nature in me the law(performance). I hope I have made sense and not to many spelling errors.

 

[Isaiah535]

Hi Isaiah,
Wow... can I relate to what you are saying here!! There is so much I'd like to share with you. First off, I feel very strongly that it is a huge blessing that you are working with Dr.'s who really understand your type of OCD. Some of the best in my opinion. Dr. Phillipson's articles and counsel on OCD was a huge part of my being able to get over this exact kind of OCD. So stick with the process. God can and does work through physicians to help his children. I'm going to PM you later on today to share a bit more about my experiences with this kind of OCD.
Praying for you.
Mitzi

Hello Mitzi,
Thank you for your reply. I got your PM. I also ordered your book yesterday and have read about 12%. I am waiting to hear back from my doctor because the horrible experience with Celexa (severe depression, panic, suicidal thoughts, blurred vision, occassional dizziness, etc.). I will read your PM and probably respond on this thread because I can't PM until I have made 15 posts apparently.

 

[Isaiah535]

Hi,
I have had some tragic episodes with ocd symptoms. When I think back if ocd was latent in me it never manifested until I got in organized religion. What I mean is I would get involved in something like karate when I was a kid. It consumed me but, I went back to reality no long term lingering affects. I could transition back into life. There were imbalances but I could snap out of them.

Then I got saved and at first Christ revealed to me his grace, and no signs of punishing ocd symptons. I stepped into a live that was to good to be true. I may been showing signs of a obsession setting in but, could it have been averted if I stayed in his grace. I think the answer is yes. Once I became indoctrinated with works based religion the wheels started falling off. I got married and my wife had a child from a previous relationship. I thought I committed by marrying her. The marriage fell apart, I continually obsessed that I committed adultery. Then I got so angry I tried to blaspheme the Spirit, and for over years those thoughts consumed me.

Now I rebel from Christ and start to hate(works of the flesh) drug addiction, boozing, and I crashed.Christ rescues me by his grace, and things turn around. I get back into organized religion, and mean Mr. LCD shows back up in spades. I would estimate that 20 yrs. Of my life have swallowed OCD episodes. This is since I was saved. I see a correlation between my ocd flare ups and being under ministries that preach works and not grace.

Its taking time be detoxed from based teaching(it produces shame, fear, guilt, performance) which I believe caused latent ocd in me to have field day. What strengthens the adamic nature in me the law(performance). I hope I have made sense and not to many spelling errors.

Thank you for your reply Turned around. Did you complete any ERP with an OCD specialist or have you taken medications?

 

[turned around]

Hi,
I have taken meds in the past. I did have some positive results. But invariably I got back under performances based belief systems , and it went out the window. Right now I,m being detoxed from religion, and letting Christ live through me.

 

[adam7272]

hi Isaiah 535,
I definitely understand the pain and hurt that you have written about, and how consuming the doubts and worries can be. I've considered quitting so many times, and the discouragement of living life with OCD and the constant worries that comes a long with it doesn't seem fair at times.
If I understand one of your questions, you want to know what your faith will look like once you have completed treatment? And it sounds like you may be afraid that your faith will no longer exist?
Not sure if I understand the question correctly, but if so, I can relate with you 100%. I often wonder if I was able to go through some magical treatment, or take a pill that got rid of 100% of OCD, if I would even care or have a desire to be a Christian. I think that I would be happy with myself, and therefore not have a need. I wonder if the only reason I strive so intensely to be a Christian, and am so consumed with doubts over my spiritual state is because I have a flight or fight anxiety response gone haywire inside of me, and it is only quieted or satisfied by obsessing on issues of salvation.
I notice that the more I obsess, and the more I try and work out my salvation and believe and repent (and do all the other things that I have heard will save us), my heart remains comletely unchanged. It is very frustrating because in the moment as I engage in these rituals I feel like I am getting somewhere and making break throughs, only to find out a few days later I am the exact same person. This is very discouraging and makes me want to give up.
Another discouraging thing I go through, is as I abandon myself and try to draw near to God, I loose touch with an objective and sure sense of reality (and the things in my life that feel real), and I am left swimming in a vast ocean of loneliness and despair, with nothing real or solid to help me. And when I do abandon my own resources (which I belive are idols) in order to draw near to God, and I am left feeling so alone with nothing real to hold on to, it makes it REALLY hard to trust God. How can I just come to Him, when I know that every time I do, I am left feeling lost and alone, and like I made some huge mistake and didn't do it right?
This is such a discouraging journey. I keep hoping that my fix is just around the corner, and I just need to repent of one more thing, and then God will fix my life. I now know this is not going to happen, but I keep getting lured in by this illusion, only to be left hopeless and hurt when something doesn't work out.
I do want to just stop trying, and that is why OCD treatment seems very appealing, but as mentioned above, I am very afraid that if I remove my OCD I will have no faith at all. I am afraid that I will be very angry over all these wasted years where I have tried so hard to be "good", yet was only sinking deeper and deeper into despair. I believe I had some potential to have a good life, but I was so afraid to use that potential in fear of comitting idolatry, and have kept myself in prison in order to honor God. And it hurts that I have given up a lot, yet I feel that God has kept me in an unsaved condition, or even worse that none of the things I want to belive are real. I don't mean to say any of that to dishonor the true God, but my experience has been very disappointing as I try and obey what I think God is telling me to do.
Sorry, some of this was venting because I have been so ensnared in my own thoughts and religion lately, but I do want to say I understand what you are going through. I don't have an answer as to what it will look like when you are finished with treatment. It seems that if Christianity is the truth, and you are saved, you have nothing to worry about. You will be able to approach God without all the worries and doubts, and have a life of serving Him and doing ministry for Him, and the self consuming thoughts will not rob the joy of serving God in that way. Bless you

 

[emilie mayer]

There are two kinds of people. Believers and non believers. Just from yoir post i can tell you are a believer. See you know the consequences of sin and you want to please God and worship Him. Im going to tell you something that helped me. A non believer doesnt know what sin is and doesnt give God a second thought. They just live life and chase money,sex,houses,ect. The fact that you see your lost condition and want to please God nd worship Him shows you belong to the Lord. Let me tell you why..... the Holy spirit shows us our lost condition and puts it in us to want to seek God. You need to take your eyes off the storm and focus on Jesus, like peter did when He walked to Jesus on the water oit of the boat...... also read romans 8:38-39. It shows you nothing can seperate you from God.

 

[Isaiah535]

hi Isaiah 535,
I definitely understand the pain and hurt that you have written about, and how consuming the doubts and worries can be. I've considered quitting so many times, and the discouragement of living life with OCD and the constant worries that comes a long with it doesn't seem fair at times.
If I understand one of your questions, you want to know what your faith will look like once you have completed treatment? And it sounds like you may be afraid that your faith will no longer exist?
Not sure if I understand the question correctly, but if so, I can relate with you 100%. I often wonder if I was able to go through some magical treatment, or take a pill that got rid of 100% of OCD, if I would even care or have a desire to be a Christian. I think that I would be happy with myself, and therefore not have a need. I wonder if the only reason I strive so intensely to be a Christian, and am so consumed with doubts over my spiritual state is because I have a flight or fight anxiety response gone haywire inside of me, and it is only quieted or satisfied by obsessing on issues of salvation.
I notice that the more I obsess, and the more I try and work out my salvation and believe and repent (and do all the other things that I have heard will save us), my heart remains comletely unchanged. It is very frustrating because in the moment as I engage in these rituals I feel like I am getting somewhere and making break throughs, only to find out a few days later I am the exact same person. This is very discouraging and makes me want to give up.
Another discouraging thing I go through, is as I abandon myself and try to draw near to God, I loose touch with an objective and sure sense of reality (and the things in my life that feel real), and I am left swimming in a vast ocean of loneliness and despair, with nothing real or solid to help me. And when I do abandon my own resources (which I belive are idols) in order to draw near to God, and I am left feeling so alone with nothing real to hold on to, it makes it REALLY hard to trust God. How can I just come to Him, when I know that every time I do, I am left feeling lost and alone, and like I made some huge mistake and didn't do it right?
This is such a discouraging journey. I keep hoping that my fix is just around the corner, and I just need to repent of one more thing, and then God will fix my life. I now know this is not going to happen, but I keep getting lured in by this illusion, only to be left hopeless and hurt when something doesn't work out.
I do want to just stop trying, and that is why OCD treatment seems very appealing, but as mentioned above, I am very afraid that if I remove my OCD I will have no faith at all. I am afraid that I will be very angry over all these wasted years where I have tried so hard to be "good", yet was only sinking deeper and deeper into despair. I believe I had some potential to have a good life, but I was so afraid to use that potential in fear of comitting idolatry, and have kept myself in prison in order to honor God. And it hurts that I have given up a lot, yet I feel that God has kept me in an unsaved condition, or even worse that none of the things I want to belive are real. I don't mean to say any of that to dishonor the true God, but my experience has been very disappointing as I try and obey what I think God is telling me to do.
Sorry, some of this was venting because I have been so ensnared in my own thoughts and religion lately, but I do want to say I understand what you are going through. I don't have an answer as to what it will look like when you are finished with treatment. It seems that if Christianity is the truth, and you are saved, you have nothing to worry about. You will be able to approach God without all the worries and doubts, and have a life of serving Him and doing ministry for Him, and the self consuming thoughts will not rob the joy of serving God in that way. Bless you

Adam,
Thank you for sharing. I don't know what treatment holds...I can only pray I find peace in the outcome no matter how practicing my faith turns out.

 

[Ribosome]

man oh man isaiah... you seem to have the exact same obsession that i've had for 3.5 years. pretty much everything you wrote about feeling anxious just by reading or thinking of the bible, is what i had. I also tried reading apologetics and that didnt help but made things worse.

I am not even sure how it happened, but i think i got decensitized to the anxious thoughts regarding the existance of God, and slowly that obsession left me. To this day i sometimes get thoughts about God not existing, but i now have a reaction of "oh there they go again" and don't bother to try and prove them wrong... that somehow makes them go away and in a few minutes or hour or days they are gone, and they don't have much anxiety associated with them.

However, that thing left, and another one came. This time it was an obsession with started due to the works-salvation soteriology i was subjected to when I became a christian. In my case it was calvinism with its lordship salvation. so ever since then i've been stuck in obsession about not being saved.

I honestly dont know how to get out of this pit, i guess i'll wait and see... i am curious to see how this problem can be solved.