Please Help Me Understand

[faiths13]

Hello
I am new to Christianity (like 10 weeks new, lol). I have been going to a wonderful church, reading the Bible, and researching questions I have. Only a couple of weeks ago I started reading Mathew and learning about Jesus and his teachings. I was really blown away and moved deeply. Then last week I started learning more about his death and resurrection. My family (husband and children) and I have been watching The Bible series on the History Channel. Yesterday we watched as Jesus was tortured and crucified. I could barely watch it. It horrified me. It made me so sad and I dreamt of it and kept thinking about it today.

Forgive me if I sound ignorant. I just don't understand why Jesus had to go through that for us. I have been reading articles about it to understand it better, but I am still confused. How does his death save us? And if it saves us, does that mean we are free to continue to sin? (not asking as if I want to, but from what I have read it seems like it makes it OK. Its so confusing!) I feel like Jesus was so good and pure - his message so wonderful - that is seems so wrong for him to suffer on our behalf. Is it wrong for me to feel so sad if he died for us? I keep trying to make sense of why he died, but it just doesn't seem right. Maybe it was just seeing the violence portrayed that makes it worse, I'm not sure.

I just want to make sense of it so I can move forward with my journey. I believe in Jesus and his teachings and I am very thankful for him and what his message. I believe in God and want to give myself in service to him. Thank you.

 

[ChristianT]

Jesus sacrifice on the cross was, as you've experiences watching portrayals of it, very real and physical. Death was at that time a final sting and the seal that Christ's work was finished. His death was in fulfillment of prophecies. Simply, Christ died because He planned for that to occur and foretold of it.
Of course, the cross isn't some event that has its own significance. The cross, Christ's blood shed for us, all is imagery (very vivid and real) of how intense His love for us is. But my favorite part of His work in atonement (forgiving sins) is th resurrection. It's the final defeat of death and opportunity for direct fellowship with God.

Exactly how our sins were forgiven really is a mystery yet to be revealed, and many theologians debate to this day exactly how it all works, what the parts actually mean or do. But all in all, Christ is King, our Savior and Redeemer. He bought us back from our sin(fullness) and conquered death once for all.

God bless you and your family as your faith grows!

 

[manitouscott]

Jesus being a perfect human being, died as the only acceptable offering for our sins to fulfill the Law which required the shedding of blood to atone for sins (Hebrews 9:22)

Our sin leads to death (Romans 6:23) We cannot achieve deliverance from sin and death on our own.

God in the person of Jesus experienced human death, then rose again and defeated death once and for all.

Having defeated death, he defeated sin for us. To be forgiven for sin and have eternal life, we must believe in the one who conquered both and has power over both.

A very brief and imperfect description that I hope begins to help.

 

[Spunkn]

God is eternal and infinite. When God created Adam and Eve, they were given a choice in the form of the tree in the garden. Listen to God, or eat of the tree and die. They chose to disobey. When you disobey an infinite God, there is an infinite amount of punishment. Not just anyone can pay the price, only an eternal being could pay the price of the punishment. Therefore it was Christ who had to pay it, being perfect. To pay for man's sin, He had to come down as a man, and yet still fully be God.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

His death saves us, because He is the sacrifice. He took all of our sins upon Him, and took our place. He took the punishment upon Himself, so that the debt was paid.

It doesn't mean we are free to sin. Think of it this way, even though all sin has been paid for. Every time you sin, that added more pain upon the cross, which Jesus had to carry. The burden was that much greater for each sin.

As Christians we no longer are slaves to sin, but free in Christ. If you truly are thankful for what God did on the cross, then we want to follow Him, not sin. For one cannot serve two masters.

Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

This verse could also apply to sin.

No it's not wrong for you to feel sad that He died. You should feel sad, that a perfectly Holy God had to come down to earth, and be killed by His own creation for what we chose to disobey. But you should be thankful and humbled as well. That God would do such a thing for us.

It was part of the plan from the beginning, and yet even God had emotions. Before going on the cross, Jesus basically says something to the effect of "if there was only another way to do this..." but there wasn't. It was the only way. And a high cost it was.

 

[Bible2]

faiths13 said in post 1:

I just don't understand why Jesus had to go through that for us. I have been reading articles about it to understand it better, but I am still confused. How does his death save us?

Jesus' suffering during his Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2), for Jesus is not just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28): His soul is infinite, and so the suffering of his soul (Isaiah 53:11) was infinite in amount, even though it was not infinite in duration. And so his suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46). Because humans who are not God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46). Every human has sinned (Romans 3:23), except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b; 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11) an infinite amount, when the elect repent from their sins and believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11).

faiths13 said in post 1:

And if it saves us, does that mean we are free to continue to sin? (not asking as if I want to, but from what I have read it seems like it makes it OK. Its so confusing!)

Christians are not free to continue in sin. For Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that saved people, people who have actually been sanctified by Jesus' sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18b, compare Romans 3:25-26), can, after they get saved, wrongly employ their free will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26). By doing this, these saved people are unwittingly trampling on Jesus and his sacrificial blood and doing despite to the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20-22). Even though Jesus' sacrificial blood is sufficient to forgive all sins (1 John 2:2), it actually forgives only the sins of believers that are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7). Jesus' sacrificial blood does not remit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a saved person can in the end lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

Some Christians think that Hebrews 10:26-29 is not for Christians. But the immediate context of Hebrews 10:26-29 is Hebrews 10:25, which is addressing "we" saved people. Hebrews 10:25-29 is the same idea as Hebrews 3:13: Saved people need to gather together and exhort each other so that no saved person will fall into any unrepentant sin. For any unrepentant sin will ultimately result in the loss of salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

Regarding repenting from a sin (for example, Acts 8:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21, Revelation 3:19), that means to change one's mind regarding that sin, in the sense of having no plans ever to commit it again, knowing that God has made it possible for believers not to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 8:2-14, Romans 6:1-23, 2 Corinthians 7:1), even if they are tempted to do so (2 Peter 2:9, Matthew 6:13; 1 Corinthians 10:13, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:16).

But if, sometime after repenting from a sin, believers nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to commit that sin again, this does not mean that they had not previously repented from that sin, or that they as continued believers in Jesus and the gospel are not saved. What they need to do is repent from that sin again and confess it to God, and they will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9, compare Lk. 17:4).

Satan wants believers to fail to continue to come to Jesus, to think that it is hopeless, that they are just too evil for Jesus, when in fact Jesus is waiting with open arms to forgive them for their sins which weigh down on them so heavily (Matthew 11:28-30).

 

[Harry3142]

faiths13-

What we witness when we see Christ's suffering, death and resurrection is 'a happening within a happening'. What Pilate and the high priest believed to be a means of ridding themselves of an upstart Galilean preacher was in actuality God's means of both offering and obtaining the perfect sacrifice needed in order to bestow freely righteousness on those who accept it:

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me - just as the Father knows me and I know the Father - and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." (The Gospel of St. John 10:14-18,NIV)

The person who had control of what was happening wasn't Pilate, the high priest, or any of the soldiers; it was Jesus Christ himself. After 6 hours, when he knew that his mission as an atoning sacrifice had been accomplished, he demonstrated that his death was in his power, not that of those who had nailed him to the cross:

Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (The Gospel of St. John 19:25-30,NIV)

And what was the reaction of the centurion to witnessing his death?

And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, "Surely this man was the Son of God!" (The Gospel of St. Mark 15:39,NIV)

And further, what was the reaction of Pontius Pilate himself when he was told that Jesus was already dead?

It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph. (The Gospel of St. Mark 15:42-45,NIV)

But why had the centurion and Pilate reacted to Jesus' death in the manner that they had? It was because Jesus' death had not fit into how they knew a victim of crucifixion should die. Tradition says that the vertical upright had a suppedaneum (footrest) attached to it, which they would have nailed Jesus' feet to. Because of this he would not have died of asphyxia, but instead would have died of a combination of exposure, infections, dehydration, and shock trauma. It was common for a victim nailed to such a cross to live for days before dying.

But Jesus had lived for 6 hours, told the people that his work was done, and then had literally 'laid down his life'. The centurion, standing only a few feet away from him when this happened, quite literally watched Jesus leave, and realized what he had just seen.

And even Pilate realized that something extraordinary had taken place. Historians discovered that before he had gone to Judea as the procurator, he had not been a roman aristocrat. Instead, he had been a Sammite military officer in a roman legion. He knew how long it should take for a victim to die when he was crucified. In all likelihood he himself had crucified people during his fighting in northern Europe. Jesus' dying so quickly was a sure sign that things had not gone their way.

As for our behavior as Christians, Galatians 5:16-26 tells us clearly that not only are we to do the right things, but we are also to do them for the right reasons. Not only are our actions to show our gratitude to God for what he accomplished on our behalf, but also the motivations which lead to those actions are to show our gratitude for what God has done on our behalf. God gave us his Son; the least that we should do is to give him our loyalty.

 

[faiths13]

Thank you everyone for all your responses : ) They are much appreciated and have given me a lot to think about!

 

[timur123456789]

Hello
I am new to Christianity (like 10 weeks new, lol). I have been going to a wonderful church, reading the Bible, and researching questions I have. Only a couple of weeks ago I started reading Mathew and learning about Jesus and his teachings. I was really blown away and moved deeply. Then last week I started learning more about his death and resurrection. My family (husband and children) and I have been watching The Bible series on the History Channel. Yesterday we watched as Jesus was tortured and crucified. I could barely watch it. It horrified me. It made me so sad and I dreamt of it and kept thinking about it today.

Forgive me if I sound ignorant. I have been reading articles about it to understand it better, but I am still confused. How does his death save us? And if it saves us, does that mean we are free to continue to sin? (not asking as if I want to, but from what I have read it seems like it makes it OK. Its so confusing!) I feel like Jesus was so good and pure - his message so wonderful - that is seems so wrong for him to suffer on our behalf. Is it wrong for me to feel so sad if he died for us? I keep trying to make sense of why he died, but it just doesn't seem right. Maybe it was just seeing the violence portrayed that makes it worse, I'm not sure.

How does his death save us?
I just don't understand why Jesus had to go through that for us.

His mission on Earth was to go through the process of perfection--->>


9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
(KJV Heb.5:9)

"being made perfect" His mission was not to physically die but to "being made perfect" through the process of spiritual temptation and death on the cross being one of them.

How does his death save us?

Now the question is how his victory over spiritual temptation saves us ?

Jesus being fully Man and fully God overcame temptations and achieved His victory over them being in the Human Body.

Now this opened a "door" for us, since now if we believe that Jesus is Fully Man and Fully God and welcome Him into our life, He can also overcome temptations and evils inside of us, if we will let him work in us by obeying Two Great commandments of Love that he Gave us.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(KJV Rev.3:20)

We need to "open the door" to let Jesus work in us. The only way to open the door is through Love.

And if it saves us, does that mean we are free to continue to sin? (not asking as if I want to, but from what I have read it seems like it makes it OK. Its so confusing!

We need to "open the door" to let Jesus work in us. The only way to open the door is through Love.

No, like I said above the way to let Jesus into our life so He can fight evils and temptations is to begin obeying his Two Great commandments of Love the best we can.

For Jesus Clearly stated that we need to obey his commandments in order to enter into eternal life:

But if you desire to enter into life, keep the commandments.
(LITV Mt.19:17)

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is: "Hear, Israel. The Lord our God is one Lord,
30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul" and with all your mind, "and with all your strength." This is the first commandment. Deut. 6:4, 5
31 And the second is like this, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." There is not another commandment greater than these. Lev. 19:18
(LITV Mk.12:29-31)

 

[asiyreh]

This is actually the great thing about Christianity.

Take for example the Muslims. Now the Muslims are aware God has Law and a breach of the Law requires atonement. But they have nothing to cancel that breach of the Law.

Imagine if you done something bad. Like murdered someone for example. Now say you fled the country for 10 years then came back and the cops caught you. Would they say ok well that was 10 years ago so you're free to go.
No they'd want to lock you up, they want an atonement for your Sin.

In Islam you kind of have to outweigh your bad sins with good works. But what about all your breaches of God's Law... Where's the atonement?
No where they haven't got it. This is what separates Christianity from everything else.

Now Christ never broke the Law. Ever...

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

When we say we are reconciled to God in Christ. It means Christ atones for our Law breaking.

Do you remember when Christ spoke from the cross and said. My God my God why have you forsaken me. This is because the stench of Sin upon us separates us from God. At that moment Christ was experiencing the payment of the entire Sin of his people from all time. Imagine...

 

[parsley]

Before Jesus, believers repented of their sins by bringing a sacrifice to the temple. The priests accepted the offering and declared it an official act of atonement, and people felt they were able to move on with life.

They were relieved of their guilt, but also made aware that their offenses had painful consequences.

Those sacrifices might not make sense either, but be assured that they were used to feed people, and the process was meant to be clean and cause less pain for the animal than other forms of death.

Every animal dies eventually, as every human dies. It is the intent to give up valuable life -- and even hope -- that can sometimes provide new fruit and make way for new growth.

An old forest burns down, and new life emerges from seeds in the ground.

That does not mean Jesus didn't suffer -- and endure emotional abuse. The public scorn and the willingness to take our place in guilt responsibility, made the crucifixion different from accidental death.

Jesus had a powerful ministry, and then gave it up. He could have been top dog of a new religion, start up branches, charge admission, basically do whatever he pleased to gain from the respect He had. But instead, He chose to not open his mouth to clear His name.

 

[jannikitty]

You have received so many comprehensive answers here to your question, which, btw, is an excellent one which we have all asked ourselves that I will only add something briefly which comes to mind.

You ask "Why"..Simply put.."He died so that we may have eternal life." Throughout the Old Testament God spoke to His people about sending a redeemer because redemption was needed due to the dis-obedience of the first man and women. (See the story of Adam and Eve in the first chapters of Genesis)..Expectation was that the redeemer would be a king..not a carpenter and preacher who would die the death of a common criminal on a cross. That is why many of that day did not believe and still do not believe. But the Centurion who witnessed this death said, "Truly, this was the Son of God." What he saw changed him and he believed.

When we gaze upon the cross and realize the gravity of His suffering for us..we also know that it is for the sins of mankind that he suffered and died. All sins from the first man and woman to our own personal sins.

And when it was finished Jesus said it was finished. That is, he had accomplished what the Father had sent His Son to do.

Yes, it is a great mystery and a sacrifice really beyond our finite minds to comprehend fully. That Jesus (God) would go through this for us. It is love..His death for our salvation to pay the debt owned by mankind because of disobedience.

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13 KJV) ..... These words were written by John, the Apostle, who along with Jesus mother Mary and Mary Magdalene, unlike his other disciples, stood at the foot of the cross and watched him suffer and die.

 

[asiyreh]

Heard something recently you guys might find interesting.

We don't really have a good example for the way the heavenly court works.
I always like to have a nice example, an allegory as such so an idea sits nice and comfortably in my mind.

But what about this idea where Christ takes our place of judgment under the Great white throne.

I mean I couldn't walk into a court and say to the judge, "listen judge I'm going to do this criminals time." You might get locked up along with him for contempt of court, but you certainly couldn't take his or her sentence.

The best analogy I had was some foreign courts allow you to pay a fine to avoid jail time, if you are rich. A sort of substitutionary atonement were you can pay the victim, or his/her family.
But even this didn't really work well. It seemed a little cheap as a good analogy.

So we're back to this problem how can someone else take our place in a courtroom?

Now I heard a guy talking on a Christian broadcast the other night and he was asked about this idea. He began to explain that Christ is the head and we are the body. In this way Christ can take our place...

think about it takes a little second or two.

The Holy Spirit is still working on the idea with me but I like it, and there's more to it to be revealed no doubt.

 

[Bible2]

asiyreh said in post 12:

I mean I couldn't walk into a court and say to the judge, "listen judge I'm going to do this criminals time." You might get locked up along with him for contempt of court, but you certainly couldn't take his or her sentence.

Regarding "you certainly couldn't take his or her sentence" of jail time, Jesus' substitutionary suffering for us can be understood if the punishment is put into financial terms. Compare the "ransom" of 1 Timothy 2:6. For example, if the punishment in a civil sentence is a million dollar fine, it does not matter how the fine gets paid, so long as it gets paid. If the fined person's brother, for example, pays the million dollars for him, that is okay. Then the situation becomes one between the fined person and his brother, where the fined person owes a giant debt of gratitude to his brother, and owes the doing of a huge number of chores for his brother over a very long period of time at no charge, should his brother ask him to. Compare 2 Corinthians 5:15. So it is not like believers can just go off and do whatever they want after they have accepted Jesus' substitutionary sacrifice for their sins (Matthew 26:28). They are to become his total and eternal voluntary servants (Romans 12:1, John 12:26, Romans 6:22, Luke 17:10).

 

[asiyreh]

Yes it's a useful analogy brother. As I quoted above -

The best analogy I had was some foreign courts allow you to pay a fine to avoid jail time, if you are rich. A sort of substitutionary atonement were you can pay the victim, or his/her family.
But even this didn't really work well. It seemed a little cheap as a good analogy.

I just don't like to think of Christ's sacrifice for us in terms of money. It's more of an emotional objection than a logical one if I am honest with myself.