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Well then, have you with all your heart, soul and mind obeyed all that is commanded of us?
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Well then, have you with all your heart, soul and mind obeyed all that is commanded of us?So many people get hung up on the two major topics of faith along and faith plus works and rarely consider the option of faith and love. Perhaps it’s not the works themselves that are taken into consideration but instead the motivation behind those works, that’s what Christ is looking for. Works done as a result of love towards God and others. Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 13 that faith without love is useless and profits no one.
Again you’re avoiding the question which only proves my point. You don’t want to answer it because you know that it is unjust for God to punish man for all eternity for failing to meet impossible expectations. In order for man to be justly held accountable for failing to meet God’s expectations he must be capable of complying.Fallen corrupt man doesn't even want to repent! They don't love or desire God. They seek pleasures of the flesh and mind! Fallen mankind has fallen so far into darkness, they are blind and like TWD (The Walking Dead) only have an appetite for sin. The reason why you do not understand this, is because you have a weak view of the Fall of Man. I strongly suggest you do your homework and really studying on what happened in the garden that afternoon.
So if I decide to buy tickets to a movie theater for everyone in the world I’m obligated to give every person a ticket? No Christ allows admission for His friends, He’s not obligated to allow His enemies to enter. And what do the scriptures say? John specifically wrote “He is the propitiation for our sins AND NOT ONLY OUR’S BUT THE WHOLE WORLD’S.” Your theology contradicts what John wrote, mine doesn’t.You did not.
What??? If your bill is paid in full you owe nothing. Basically it's yours, you now owned it. If I paid in full for your house, it's yours free and clear.
Okay, explain.
St Augustine was a 5th century writer, I would hardly consider him to be an early church writer and he openly admitted to making several mistakes in his writings. Unfortunately he didn’t specify exactly what those mistakes were. We’re trying to determine what the early church taught not what it taught 400 years after the apostles.St. Augustine
You skipped a very important post. You said that we must be restored to God in order to repent.Well then, have you with all your heart, soul and mind obeyed all that is commanded of us?
No I haven’t. But the commandment was to love God with all our heart soul and mind and I have done that.Well then, have you with all your heart, soul and mind obeyed all that is commanded of us?
Again you’re avoiding the question which only proves my point. You don’t want to answer it because you know that it is unjust for God to punish man for all eternity for failing to meet impossible expectations. In order for man to be justly held accountable for failing to meet God’s expectations he must be capable of complying.
So where do we find comfort and assurance in our repentance or Christ?No I haven’t. But the commandment was to love God with all our heart soul and mind and I have done that.
Do you not see the answer in passages? These passages answer your own questions.You skipped a very important post. You said that we must be restored to God in order to repent.
Ok I’ll answer this by quoting three verses and asking two questions.
“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
Romans 2:4-5 NASB1995
“You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.”
John 5:33-34 NASB1995
“But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.”
Revelation 2:20-21 NASB1995
Here’s my two questions
1 Were these people capable of repentance?
2 Was their relationship with God restored?
Can you answer these two questions please?
Commentaries? That’s your suggestion? You can find a commentary for every false doctrine ever conceived. You claim I’m not familiar with these topics? Ask Mark Quale or Clare if I’m familiar with these topics, I’m sure we have over a hundred posts just between us alone not including everyone else I’ve debated this topic with over the last 7 years here on CF. As you can see I’m quite active in these discussions. And no you didn’t answer my question you keep dodging it because your answer says that man doesn’t WANT to repent but Calvin teaches that man is INCAPABLE of repentance. That’s a huge difference. God punishing people because they don’t want to repent is completely justifiable but God punishing man for being incapable of repentance is entirely unjust. You can’t justly punish someone for failing to do something that is impossible for them to do.I address your question every precisely. Just because you are not familiar with these topics demonstrated in your posts, shows you really need to do some homework. I used to think as you do, until I did my homework in the pursue of the truth. I recommend that you read every book you can get your hands dealing with these debates from all sides of the debate. You will come to a conclusion as I did, first of all, there is novelty in these debates anymore. Maybe old heresies come back around dressed up in new clothes, but same old false teaching underneath.
So it’s better to hold a position that directly contradicts what is written in the scriptures, and what we can see in the early church writings, and what every single apostolic church actually teaches? Your theology is from the 16th century, it didn’t exist before John Calvin. John Calvin wasn’t a follower of the apostles and I’ve already shown you quotes from Iranaeus written in 170AD that refute Calvin’s theology. And you keep saying that I haven’t done my homework?One can twist and turn their conjectural biases onto Scripture, but that is not seeking the truth at all. Here's what I mean. You stated that all people apart from God's Grace can repent. Then you stated that Christ pain in full for everyone sins. But then negated that people can repent or are redeem by what Christ did. This is convoluted at best.
Again does Calvin teach that man doesn’t want to repent or does he teach that they are INCAPABLE of repentance? There’s a huge difference.In regards to your baseless accusation that I didn't answer your question about God punishing sinners because they cannot meet God demands, is nonsense. In our society we have civil Law and runs the Land. This is to keep Law and Order; to protect all citizens from lawlessness. But not all adhere to this Civil Law they prefer a life of crime; career criminals. Who enjoy and love killing, raping, robbing and so forth to satisfy whatever their desires are. Did anyone coerce them to lead a life of crime? Should they be given a pass because they CANNOT control themselves or possess normal social function within the community? Your point is futile and does not help your position at all, IMHO it's does more harm than good to you. Because God's not the one who needs to be judged here, sinners are.
It’s through repentance that we come to Christ. You can’t be in Christ until you repent.So where do we find comfort and assurance in our repentance or Christ?
Again why can’t you simply answer the two questions? You can’t because you know your answer will contradict these passages which is why you’ve dodged them again.Do you not see the answer in passages? These passages answer your own questions.
Commentaries? That’s your suggestion? You can find a commentary for every false doctrine ever conceived. You claim I’m not familiar with these topics? Ask Mark Quale or Clare if I’m familiar with these topics, I’m sure we have over a hundred posts just between us alone not including everyone else I’ve debated this topic with over the last 7 years here on CF. As you can see I’m quite active in these discussions. And no you didn’t answer my question you keep dodging it because your answer says that man doesn’t WANT to repent but Calvin teaches that man is INCAPABLE of repentance. That’s a huge difference. God punishing people because they don’t want to repent is completely justifiable but God punishing man for being incapable of repentance is entirely unjust. You can’t justly punish someone for failing to do something that is impossible for them to do.
Both, sinful man doesn't want to repent and is incapable because he/she is in bondage to their desires. Here, please, by all means explain these passages if you wouldn't mind.Again does Calvin teach that man doesn’t want to repent or does he teach that they are INCAPABLE of repentance? There’s a huge difference.
On the contrary there is no hope, assurance, joy, confidence, or life for the majority of people who refuse to accept Christ. They never had any chance to accept Christ because they were never given the ability to do so according to John Calvin. So it’s your theology that is without hope not mine. In my theology, which is what the church has taught since the beginning and supported by the early Christian writers, everyone has hope. Everyone has a chance for salvation.Yes you can find a commentary for every false religion ever conceived, so learn them. I am pretty confident that you have a few books on what you believe, correct? You can say whatever you want about how many posts you have, that doesn't make you correct. I do not get the feeling you are familiar, because if you are, then you would've understood the dilemma about saying Christ paid in full for everyone sins. But you keep trying to rectify it in making work, but it does not. What Christ came to do was intentional and has a purpose, it's not random or possible, but in fact specific and effectual. That's a huge difference! Now would I want to be in a position where things are random and only possible by a random chance, or by a specific promise that God's justifies the ungodly apart from works and Christ and his merits are effectual to do exactly what God promised? In your paradigm there is no hope, assurance, joy, confidence, nor life. Only constant intensity of introspection to evaluate self worth in the lack of inventory.
It’s through repentance that we come to Christ. You can’t be in Christ until you repent.
Why? In your theology everyone can repent, they have the capability to accept, right? So this means that everyone has the same illumination in understanding the Gospel and repent, correct? All have the same equal amount of whatever you call it; knowledge, insight, revelation, whatever. Why do some reject it, knowing the consequences of that decision in the paradigm you hold?On the contrary there is no hope, assurance, joy, confidence, or life for the majority of people who refuse to accept Christ.
You say you are well verse, but this comment right here shows you are not familiar. Here's why, Adam the representative of humanity made that decision for us in the garden.They never had any chance to accept Christ because they were never given the ability to do so according to John Calvin.
The Bible disagrees with you, and it's the final authority even over the ECF.So it’s your theology that is without hope not mine. In my theology, which is what the church has taught since the beginning and supported by the early Christian writers, everyone has hope. Everyone has a chance for salvation.
Allow me to quote the next 5 verses Paul wrote so we can see why he said this to the Corinthians.1 Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
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