razeontherock
Well-Known Member
It does not!
Yes Trinity is worth discussing, but if it brings no benefit to you ... then it brings no benefit.
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If the trinity consists of Gods and a God head,
then IMO it is not a tiny speck, but something worth discussing.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Ken
When the men of the Catholic Church came up with the Trinity, do you think they understood it?
K
Does that mean it is God? or is it just one with God. Obviously the word isn't God!1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
How many more ya need?
Are you suggesting the men who came up with the Trinity were not of the Catholic Church?I object to the statement "the Catholic Church came up with Trinity." The Church at the time penned a dogma, yes; but that bears little resemblance to modern day Catholicism.
Does that mean it is God? or is it just one with God. Obviously the word isn't God!
Are you suggesting the men who came up with the Trinity were not of the Catholic Church?
K
First of all, I'm just asking questions; there is no reason to be rude about it.Obviously what was there that we have translated as "the Word," IS G-d. How can you miss such a simple statement? (That takes real effort)
Just a tiny bit of understanding re: what was translated as "the Word:"
"1) of speech
a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b) what someone has said
1) a word
2) the sayings of God
3) decree, mandate or order
4) of the moral precepts given by God
5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6) what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c) discourse
1) the act of speaking, speech
2) the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3) a kind or style of speaking
4) a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
d) doctrine, teaching
e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f) matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g) the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2) its use as respect to the MIND alone
a) reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b) account, i.e. regard, consideration
c) account, i.e. reckoning, score
d) account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e) relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1) reason would
f) reason, cause, ground
3) In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
Note: A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe."
IOW, bite your tongue, and learn a bit before you shoot your keyboard off half-cocked. "Logos" is a pretty big concept. If you want to be able to opine on any of this, you'll need to familiarize yourself with it. (And this is just a small part)
Nobody is talking about modern catholics. I'm talking about the men who came up with the trinity; they were Catholic, right? So where is your objection to what I said?I'm saying that modern Catholics who want to equate their Catholicism with the state of the Church at that time, are just kidding themselves. Anyway, there were some seriously grave errors in understanding at the time, and Trinity was spelled out to clarify.
Nobody is talking about modern catholics. I'm talking about the men who came up with the trinity; they were Catholic, right? So where is your objection to what I said?
K
I asked: "Did the men of the Catholic Church who came up with the concept of the Trinity understand it?"I've spelled that out repeatedly.
I don't see where it says "the word" is another name for Jesus.Obviously what was there that we have translated as "the Word," IS G-d. How can you miss such a simple statement? (That takes real effort)
Just a tiny bit of understanding re: what was translated as "the Word:"
"1) of speech
a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b) what someone has said
1) a word
2) the sayings of God
3) decree, mandate or order
4) of the moral precepts given by God
5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6) what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c) discourse
1) the act of speaking, speech
2) the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3) a kind or style of speaking
4) a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
d) doctrine, teaching
e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f) matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g) the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2) its use as respect to the MIND alone
a) reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b) account, i.e. regard, consideration
c) account, i.e. reckoning, score
d) account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e) relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1) reason would
f) reason, cause, ground
3) In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
Note: A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe."
IOW, bite your tongue, and learn a bit before you shoot your keyboard off half-cocked. "Logos" is a pretty big concept. If you want to be able to opine on any of this, you'll need to familiarize yourself with it. (And this is just a small part)
When the men of the Catholic Church came up with the Trinity, do you think they understood it?
K
I realize several people have asked for an explanation of the Trinity, but the answers given doesnt quite make sense to me and because I cant respond on those threads I have to start my own. So here is my questions:
*Is Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit the same God with 3 nicknames? if so how could one be the son and the other the father?
*Are they each a fraction of a God and only when together they are a complete God? (kinda like the "egg white, yolk, and shell" explanation I've heard before
*Or are they each 3 separate Gods? (Polytheism)
If something different please explain
Ken
All three are the same Being, but in 3 different Representations.an explanation of the Trinity:
please explain
Ken
Yes, but they were familiar with the philosophy of the time. Today, few people understand Plato, so will have a difficult time understanding the Trinity in Christianity.When the men of the Catholic Church came up with the Trinity, do you think they understood it?
K
I don't see where it says "the word" is another name for Jesus.
K
Sorry it doesnt work that way. You can have several beings and only one of them be a person/human; because it will be assumed the other beings will be either animals/beasts, insects, amphibians, etc. but you cant have one person, insect, animal, etc equal several beings at the same time.The way I've heard it explained is something like this.
A dog is a being, but no persons.
A human is a being, and 1 persons.
God is a being, and 3 persons. 3 in 1, anyone?
So yeah, something like that.
All three are the same Being, but in 3 different Representations.
Why?
(because as mortals most souls forget, GOD is without a physical body);
so because they CANT relate to Him, GOD Presents
Himself to us in 3 different forms, we CAN relate to:
1. water - God
2. Solid/ice -> Jesus
3. steam -> Holy Ghost
Yes, but they were familiar with the philosophy of the time. Today, few people understand Plato, so will have a difficult time understanding the Trinity in Christianity.
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