-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Please explain the Trinity
- Thread starter Ken-1122
- Start date
elopez
Well-Known Member
No you have three separate people as there exists three people: The Father, The Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. With your automobile and car analogy you only have one car, not three, which is why the analogy is incomparable.
I have never said God is more than one being, just three different persons. What doesn't make sense is how you derive at more than one from me saying one God.
That's because we are. Person is singular, so persons means more than one person.
People as it is plural is the same as persons, yes.
Even then the grammatical mistake is really of no significance that the idea of one God being existent as three different people cannot be understood. Each person is the same one God and has the same will and nature. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. God has one will and one nature, so if each person possesses it equally, they are the same one God. Each person does possess the same nature and will so each person is God.
Upvote
0
No! In my analogy I have 3 separate cars, but they are 1 automobile; 3 in 1. Now if that doesnt make any sense to you, maybe you can understand why what you are saying makes no sense to me.
A person IS a being. You can't have 1 person be 3 separate beings, or 3 individual people be 1 being; it doesn't make sense.
The same way you derived that I only have 1 car simply because I said I have only 1 automobile.
Not in the English language it doesnt; People is plural, person is singular.
No. Persons is not a word in the English language, any more than Gooses in reference to more than one Goose.
Would it be accurate to say they are each a fraction of God and when together they equal a complete God?
K
Upvote
0
elopez
Well-Known Member
Again you would not have 3 separate cars as only one would exist. This is incomparable to the Trinity because there are three separate people: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are actually three distinct people existing simultaneously, where as if you had 1 automobile you wouldn't have three cars.
I'm not saying one person can be three separate beings. I am saying one God can exist as three separate people. You keep saying it doesn't make sense but you haven't explained or shown why it doesn't make sense.
It is not the same way because you would not have three cars but only one. There exists three people of the Trinity.
Right.
You do realize this grammatical issue is irrelevant and seems to say nothing about the Trinity.
I've already answered this. No, it would not be accurate to say that. Each person is fully God. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. As each person shares the same nature and will they are one God.
Upvote
0
ChristianT
Newbie Orthodox
- Nov 4, 2011
- 2,059
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
person |ˈpərsən|
noun ( pl. people |ˈpēpəl| or persons )
1 a human being regarded as an individual : the porter was the last person to see her | she is a person of astonishing energy.
• used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual : the entrance fee is $10.00 per person.
• [in sing. ] [with adj. ] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing : she's not a cat person.
• an individual's body : I have publicity photographs on my person at all times.
• a character in a play or story : his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker ( first person), the addressee ( second person), or a third party ( third person).
3 Christian Theology each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.
PHRASES
be one's own person do or be what one wishes or in accordance with one's own character rather than as influenced by others.
in person with the personal presence or action of the individual specified : he had to pick up his welfare check in person.
in the person of in the physical form of : trouble arrived in the person of a short, mustached Berliner.
ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French persone, from Latin persona ‘actor's mask, character in a play,’ later ‘human being.’
USAGE The words people and persons can both be used as the plural of person, but they are not used in exactly the same way. People is by far the more common of the two words and is used in most ordinary contexts: : a group of people ;: there were only about ten people ;: several thousand people have been rehoused. Persons, on the other hand, tends now to be restricted to official or formal contexts, as in : this vehicle is authorized to carry twenty persons ;: no persons admitted without a pass. In some contexts, persons, by pointing to the individual, may sound less friendly than people:: the number should not be disclosed to any unauthorized persons.
noun ( pl. people |ˈpēpəl| or persons )
1 a human being regarded as an individual : the porter was the last person to see her | she is a person of astonishing energy.
• used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual : the entrance fee is $10.00 per person.
• [in sing. ] [with adj. ] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing : she's not a cat person.
• an individual's body : I have publicity photographs on my person at all times.
• a character in a play or story : his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker ( first person), the addressee ( second person), or a third party ( third person).
3 Christian Theology each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.
PHRASES
be one's own person do or be what one wishes or in accordance with one's own character rather than as influenced by others.
in person with the personal presence or action of the individual specified : he had to pick up his welfare check in person.
in the person of in the physical form of : trouble arrived in the person of a short, mustached Berliner.
ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French persone, from Latin persona ‘actor's mask, character in a play,’ later ‘human being.’
USAGE The words people and persons can both be used as the plural of person, but they are not used in exactly the same way. People is by far the more common of the two words and is used in most ordinary contexts: : a group of people ;: there were only about ten people ;: several thousand people have been rehoused. Persons, on the other hand, tends now to be restricted to official or formal contexts, as in : this vehicle is authorized to carry twenty persons ;: no persons admitted without a pass. In some contexts, persons, by pointing to the individual, may sound less friendly than people:: the number should not be disclosed to any unauthorized persons.
Upvote
0
drich0150
Regular Member
- Mar 16, 2008
- 6,407
- 437
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
God is a title not a Name, as in:
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit
Each is an incarnation of the One God of the universe.
This is not polytheism even though there are three separate deities here simply because they are all one God. Much like there is only one government governing these United States even though that Government is subdivided into three equal but separate branches. Polytheists believe that there are multiple gods. a Sun god, a god of the sea A god of the harvest etc. all separate with their own agenda and own rules. In governmental terms that would be like each state having it's own Executive, Congressional, and Judicial branches that were completely independent of all the others.
Here the Trinity is one God manifested in three separate but equal beings. Remember God is a title and not an individual deity's name.
Upvote
0
Yes and I have 3 separate cars! A Ford, a Chrysler, and a Chevy! And they all exist as 1 automobile! Why is this so hard for you to understand? Could it be for the same reason Im having a hard time understanding your analogy?
Yes I do! 3 distinct cars existing simultaneously
Same thing! God is a person; and people are beings.
It doesnt make sense to me for the same reason my 3 separate cars existing simultaneously as 1 automobile, doesnt make sense to you.
Why do you keep saying I only have 1 car, when Ive told you over and over I have 3? I have 3 separate cars.
Yes. Thats why I asked it as a side note. I just noticed everybody responding to the trinity seems to be making the exact same mistake. Just trying to see if there is a connection here.
Upvote
0
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Since as we all know that each branch is only a fraction of a complete governing body and only together do they equal the complete governing body of the USA; it sounds like you agree with my previous statement that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God are each only a fraction of a God and only make up a complete God when they are together. Is that correct?[/FONT]
Upvote
0
So since each emanations are a fraction of the single source of light; God, Jesus, and the HS are a fraction of God; would you agree?
Upvote
0
drich0150
Regular Member
- Mar 16, 2008
- 6,407
- 437
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
If by "fraction" you mean to say every member of the God Head has a unique and distinct role, and personality separate from each other, yet each in of Himself is still fully God, then Yes.
*God is not bound to my analogies.
Upvote
0
elopez
Well-Known Member
All I'm doing at this point is repeating myself as you're not really responding to much of what I'm saying. You cannot have a For, Chrysler, and a Chevy exist as one automobile while having the three cars exist simultaneously. Yet according to the Trinity there is one God existent as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each person exists simultaneously, and each person has the same nature and will. Each person is the same one God. So no, it is not for the same reason at all.
There cannot be as there is only 1 automobile.
No, God is not a person. God as incarnated of Christ is a person but still he is fully God too. And again, it's not the same reason because it's impossible for there to be three cars if there is only one automobile. It's not impossible for one God to exist as three distinct people simultaneously.
I keep saying you only have one because you would only have one. You could not have three as distinct cars but only one, it's either one or the other not both. Again with the Trinity it is different as there actually does exist three distinct people that are God.
Maybe it's not everyone else who is making the mistake. It could, after all, be you ya know. Unless this is the usual 'I am right and everyone else is wrong' attitude
Upvote
0
No that would be polytheism. If you have 3 God Heads unique and distinct in roles and personality, and separate from each other yet a complete God; that would be polytheism. The only loophole that I can think of that can justify Monotheism would be if each God were a fraction of God and only when together they equal a complete God when together.
BTW our United States Government is closer to Polytheism than Monotheism because we are not ruled by a single ruler or ruling body like a dictator or king, we are ruled by 3 separate bodies each given distinct but equal powers.
Ken
Upvote
0
So how is what Im saying different than what you are saying; except my analogy includes the description of 1 automobile and yours includes the description of 1 God?
Then you cant have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit exist as one God while having the 3 God heads exist simultaneously.
So how is it different from my claim that I have one automobile existent as a Ford, Chrysler, and a Chevy? Each car existing simultaneously and each car has the same nature and will, and each car being the same automobile?
Again; how is what youre saying different than what Im saying?
K
Upvote
0
I think of the holy trinity as an ice-cream come with three scoops, one chocolate, one strawberry and one vanilla.
The flavours aren't important.
It isn't literal, in my view, and merely a metaphor (like the cone) for God being within all yet seperate at the same time.
The flavours aren't important.
It isn't literal, in my view, and merely a metaphor (like the cone) for God being within all yet seperate at the same time.
Upvote
0
N
Nanopants
Guest
Using that analogy, not exactly. Each emanation is of the same substance (the same light), but each emanation alone is not the source.
I really don't know if that's the nature of the Godhead, or whether that's considered heretical or not. It's what I saw in my conversion experience.
Upvote
0
elopez
Well-Known Member
I've already explained how it is different. It is different on the basis that if you have one automobile, you cannot have three. Three cars could not exist as one as there would only be actually one vehicle.
With the Trinity, three people actually do exist simultaneously, not just one. There is one God but He is existent as three different people.
It's possible because first of all all three people actually exist. There is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit existing all at the same time. Second, there is one God that exists, and if each person is God then there are three people existent as the one God.
I've explained this numerous times now. The relevant difference is that the Ford, Chrysler, and Chevy would not all exist at the same time if indeed there was but one automobile, however, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit can all exist at the same time as one God because each person actually does exist.
It's not like you could drive a Chevy, get out and switch to driving the Ford if again there is only one automobile.
Upvote
0
gaweatherford
Member
- Jan 11, 2005
- 164
- 18
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
I think before it can be grasped one has to realize that the concept of the trinity is more a response from the "phenomenon of it all" than it is of anything that could be put into mathematical terms. It was never mentioned in the Bible per se. Theologians, philosophers and early church fathers of the middle ages deduced the trinity after scrutinizing all the scripture in with the facts of Christ's appearance. So, over periods of years the trinity was discovered. The trinity is a nature (or capability) of God that God has chosen to reveal to man. We can't really compete for the understanding of it all because it is above us some what.
Spurgeon:
We can never understand how Father, Son, and Holy Spirit can be three and yet one.
For my part, I have long ago given up any desire to understand this great mystery,
for I am perfectly satisfied that, if I could understand it, it would not be true, because
God, from the very nature of things, must be incomprehensible
Upvote
0
Similar threads
