Please explain deification

[lovernotafighter]

I've been trying to learn a bit more about the Orthodox Church lately, I don't know, I feel kind of drawn to it maybe...

I'm having alot of trouble understand deification, especially quotes like "God became man so that man might become god". A clearer definition would be appreciated.

 

[Knee V]

Thank you for the question.

First off, please understand that we do not believe that we become anything other than human beings at any point in our existence. We will always be finite, created beings while God will always be infinite and uncreated. But in Christ, God united Himself to what we are so that we may be united to what He is. It's just like what Peters says when we "become partakers of the Divine Nature", or when Paul says that we and Christ become "one flesh".

Paul says that Christ is the Son by nature, while we are sons by adoption. In other words, Christ, by His Incarnation (and death, and resurrection, and ascension, and sending of the Holy Spirit), makes us, by grace, to become what He is by nature - sons (or the more gender-neutral "children", if you prefer). Christ becomes what we are in order to make us what He is.

When you put a magnet into a bowl of paper clips, all the paper clips become magnetic. The paper clips don't cease to be paper clips, but because they're united to the magnet, they become magnetic as well. In a similar way (as much as it is weird-sounding to evangelical protestant ears) God became man so that we might become gods.

Make any sense?

 

[Antony in Tx]

Welcome to TAW, Lover. The term we usually use in the Eastern Orthodox Church is "Theosis". This is a process by which we try to shed not only sin but take on holiness so that we can be united with God in the Life of the all-holy-Trinity, which is what God wants and has wanted for us since the beginning. It is for almost all, a very long and slow climb that will be consumated in the bodily ressurection someday. Here's a link to a pretty good article on Orthodox Wiki - Theosis. I hope it is helpful. If you have not yet been to a Divine Liturgy or other service, I would recommend it highly. It is a chance to glimpse into this process, and to experience how we worship.

 

[lovernotafighter]

So we become like God, as holy as God, without actually becoming God? Yet we partake in the divine nature because we are made perfect? Is that a good understanding?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Antony in Tx]

I will leave further explanation of Theosis to others on here who are much wiser and better at explaining that sort of thing than I.

As to asking questions, you are welcome to ask questions here. That's a big part of what this forum is for. That said, talking to an Orthodox Priest face to face will be a better chance to ask in depth questions and to get authoritative answers. As to chatechism, there is not an "Official Orthodox Chatechism". Chatechesis is handled individually by each priest with each chatecumen. At some (usually big) churches they will have organized classes and materials that they use. Other times reading of books and writings of the Early Church Fathers will be combined with teaching by the priest and ongoing dialogue/discussion. Always it will come back to: "Talk to you Spiritual Father", which is to say the priest who will guide you in your spiritual journey through life. Usually this will be the priest at your home parish, but some have SF's at a monastery or a church they used to attend. Remember, you are welcome to feel at home here, and to ask any question you can think of.

 

[lovernotafighter]

I will leave further explanation of Theosis to others on here who are much wiser and better at explaining that sort of thing than I.

As to asking questions, you are welcome to ask questions here. That's a big part of what this forum is for. That said, talking to an Orthodox Priest face to face will be a better chance to ask in depth questions and to get authoritative answers. As to chatechism, there is not an "Official Orthodox Chatechism". Chatechesis is handled individually by each priest with each chatecumen. At some (usually big) churches they will have organized classes and materials that they use. Other times reading of books and writings of the Early Church Fathers will be combined with teaching by the priest and ongoing dialogue/discussion. Always it will come back to: "Talk to you Spiritual Father", which is to say the priest who will guide you in your spiritual journey through life. Usually this will be the priest at your home parish, but some have SF's at a monastery or a church they used to attend. Remember, you are welcome to feel at home here, and to ask any question you can think of.

Orthodox Catechism
Oh, so should I not be using this?

And yeah, since I'm 16, I can't really do anything about it, cause my parents are Catholic. So, I won't be able to talk with a priest or attend a Mass or anything in the near future.

 

[Antony in Tx]

Having not read that specific work, I can't comment on it's quality. That said, it comes from the Romanian Episcopate (which, though an ethnic Diocese, is part of the Orthodox Church in America) and therefore should contain valid, accurate information. I see no reason not to read it, but you should know that learning about Orthodoxy is much more than just reading about it and having "book knowledge". I understand your dilemma in being so young and not wanting to cross your parents. I will again say that you are always welcome here to ask any and all questions. Also, there may be some priests who will communicate with you over the net, so you may be able to dialogue with one or more of them at some point.

Welcome!

 

[Macarius]

So we become like God, as holy as God, without actually becoming God?

Yes, but this likeness must be taken to an extreme degree. Without losing our identity, we become totally infused by God's grace (that is, by God Himself) without losing our identity (just like in marriage, where two become one while still remaining distinct in identity).

Yet we partake in the divine nature because we are made perfect? Is that a good understanding?

Thanks for the help!

In a way, sort of backwards. Perfection IS to partake of the divine nature (to be transparent to God's presence as a window is transparent to light and, by that transparency, illumines a whole room with the light of the sun).

So we partake of the divine nature as part of perfection - it isn't a reward for becoming perfect, it is what makes us perfect and is itself perfection.

Hope that helps!

As you continue to read that catechism, feel free to post questions here. I must agree, though, that as soon as you reasonibly can (while still honoring your father and mother) go and experience Orthodoxy in person. It isn't an intellectual faith (though it is intellectually valid and engaging); it is a lived faith, it has to be experienced to understand the organic way that its teachings all "fit" together (since it is far less systematic than the post-Thomist West).

And welcome to TAW!

In Christ,
Macarius

 

[Lukaris]

Although there is much more depth than what I might say, in a basic sense theosis can probably be compared to what Protestants say as growing in grace. A major difference probably would be that many evangelicals see salvation as a settled issue & we see it as ongoing & must be renewed through confession & the eucharist in theosis or growing in grace.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So we become like God, as holy as God, without actually becoming God? Yet we partake in the divine nature because we are made perfect? Is that a good understanding?

in a sense you hit the nail on the head. we grow to love as He loves, be perfect as He is perfect, etc, but since He is infinite and eternal, and we are not, we can always approach Him without becoming Him. there is always something else for man to learn from God, and there is always something else God can show man.

welcome to TAW!

 

[ProScribe]

Our bodies and souls become unified and transformed for heaven which is union with the Trinity (Father,Son,and Holy Spirit)