Please Define Pedophile

[yasic]

Treatable, not curable which is what I said.

Lisa

You stated that all pedophiles, if not treaded, will molest.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

 

[yasic]

Nor was that the purpose of the articles I cited. They were to show that it is not curable and without treatment they will molest and molest and molest. They will not stop on their own. Most of the treatments involve chemical reductions in their libido.

Lisa

Nowhere in either of those articles did it ever say pedophiles, if not treated, will molest. If you reread my posts you will find where I pointed out the the first article says exactly the opposite.

 

[Lisa0315]

http://www.deviantcrimes.com/childmolesters.htm

This article recognizes that not all pedophiles are child molesters but that untreated pedophiles are at great risk of becoming molesters.

 

[Lisa0315]

You also claimed that all paedophiles molest children. Clearly, they don't. Not even all untreated paedophiles do. In fact, 42% of untreated, convicted paedophiles do not molest children.

Cite your source.

 

[cantata]

http://www.deviantcrimes.com/childmolesters.htm

This article recognizes that not all pedophiles are child molesters but that untreated pedophiles are at great risk of becoming molesters.

So you concede that not all paedophiles are child molesters, then?

 

[Lisa0315]

So you concede that not all paedophiles are child molesters, then?

Yes, I concede that. However, I do not concede that they are harmless either.

 

[cantata]

Cite your source.

The article YOU POSTED!

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1002317-2,00.html

Bottom of the page: "... pedophiles who strike again, as high as 58% for those who refuse treatment."

That means that 42% don't.

 

[DeathMagus]

Yes, I concede that. However, I do not concede that they are harmless either.

So someone attracted to children is causing harm simply from being attracted to children?

 

[stan1980]

I'd just like to add my name to the list of people who feels sympathy for paedo's who don't act on their desires or download porn.

Lisa, say hypothetically, your son got molested as a child and now, as an adult, he found himself attracted to children. Although he wasn't acting on his desires or downloading porn, would you have sympathy for the fact he could never have a "real" relationship? If not, it doesn't seem very compassionate. I don't think anyone would choose to be paedophile, after all.

 

[yasic]

Yes, I concede that. However, I do not concede that they are harmless either.

How are they not harmless?

 

[Lisa0315]

So someone attracted to children is causing harm simply from being attracted to children?

Yeah, I do not want some perv looking at my child, then, going home and fantasizing about them. Yeah, that harms me and my child. They have no right!

Do you have kids? Tell you what. Bring a known pedophile into your home and allow your kids to sit in his lap and see how you feel about it.

When my daughter was 16, I caught one of my husband's friends checking her out. I told my husband about it and he went to his friend, told him to not even bother denying it, and to keep his eyes to himself from now on.

Lisa

 

[yasic]

Yeah, I do not want some perv looking at my child, then, going home and fantasizing about them. Yeah, that harms me and my child. They have no right!

How on earth does that harm you or your child? Why do they not have a right to think about whatever they want?

Do you have kids? Tell you what. Bring a known pedophile into your home and allow your kids to sit in his lap and see how you feel about it.

I had a sister so I know how its like. I would not allow her to sit in any pedophiles lap. However we are not discussing pedophiles who ask for children to sit in their laps. We are talking about ones who do NOT ask children to sit in their laps...

 

[DeathMagus]

Yeah, I do not want some perv looking at my child, then, going home and fantasizing about them. Yeah, that harms me and my child. They have no right!

Of course they do. People have the right to think whatever they please. I'll bet people have even looked at you at one point or another in public, and fantasized about you later, despite not knowing you, because they thought you looked pretty. It happens, and it's life. Why should it be any different with children?

Do you have kids? Tell you what. Bring a known pedophile into your home and allow your kids to sit in his lap and see how you feel about it.

Because "being attracted to someone" also includes sessions of lap-sitting/touching in a fairly intimate way.

 

[lawtonfogle]

And someone said this would become something of a broken record... lol.

 

[Lisa0315]

How on earth does that harm you or your child? Why do they not have a right to think about whatever they want?

I had a sister so I know how its like. I would not allow her to sit in any pedophiles lap. However we are not discussing pedophiles who ask for children to sit in their laps. We are talking about ones who do NOT ask children to sit in their laps...

Every instinct I have as a parent and as a Christian says there is something dire wrong with allowing a practicing or non-practicing admitted pedophile anywhere near my child. My article says that without treatment all pedophiles are at high risk of becoming molesters. That is too much risk in my book. If there is one chance in a million, it is not a risk I am willing to accept.

As for them thinking about whatever they want? Well, naturally, a pedophile is not going to tell you that they are fantasizing about your child but the idea of it is horrible. My reaction is normal.

The idea of feeling sorry for pedophiles and relabeling the deviancy as an orientation is just ridiculous. It is a mental illness but it seems that it could easily be relabeled as something else if society begins to find reasons to feel pity and empathy for these men.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone can be sympathetic towards a pedophile under any circumstance. I guess I need someone to define what they mean of being sympathetic to them. It sounds to me as it is a pat on the head and telling them that it is perfectly okay to be that way.

This is not about withholding help from them or about locking them away from society. It is about protecting children. One of the things that seems to be very symptomatic about pedophiles and child molesters is that they tend to lie quiet effectively.

That is why I doubt that there is any such thing as a non-practicing pedophile even though I do acknowledge there is a difference between pedophile and child molester.

I think it is safe to assume that those who have never molested ARE buying child pornography. They are then just as guilty.

I am limited to the amount and kind of research I can do on this while I am at work. It would be nice if someone would study up on this from my viewpoint even if you only do it to prove me wrong.

I find it very difficult to believe that there are pedophiles who are not active in some way. From a Christian perspective, and I realize that is meaningless to anyone who is not a Christian, but if the thought occurs, it is the same as the deed when it comes to matters of lust. So, they are either fantasizing about real life children, (scary!), viewing and buying child porn, (worse!), or are contemplating their first victim.

Folks, this is not something that can be played around with. Crimes against children are epidemic. These are not people to feel sorry for, but people that need serious therapy and lots of drugs. If my concern was high before, it is even greater now that I read that there are adults out there who are lowering the bar on the level of tolerance for these folks.

Lisa

 

[cantata]

Well you're changing your tune, now, Lisa. First you were talking about people fantasising about children. Now you're talking about allowing known paedophiles near your children. Clearly these are different things.

If someone sees your child on the street, and later fantasises about them, but has no intention ever of harming your child in any way, how is that bad for anyone? It may be troubling to think about, sure, but you don't know it's happening and nor does your child, so I don't see what the problem is.

Please, please try to imagine what it is like to have powerful sexual feelings that are hateful to you and almost everyone else. People who don't act on those feelings deserve sympathy. They are bearing a cross they did not choose.

 

[Lisa0315]

Well you're changing your tune, now, Lisa. First you were talking about people fantasising about children. Now you're talking about allowing known paedophiles near your children. Clearly these are different things.

If someone sees your child on the street, and later fantasises about them, but has no intention ever of harming your child in any way, how is that bad for anyone? It may be troubling to think about, sure, but you don't know it's happening and nor does your child, so I don't see what the problem is.

Please, please try to imagine what it is like to have powerful sexual feelings that are hateful to you and almost everyone else. People who don't act on those feelings deserve sympathy. They are bearing a cross they did not choose.

Define sympathy.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Every instinct I have as a parent and as a Christian says there is something dire wrong with allowing a practicing or non-practicing admitted pedophile anywhere near my child. My article says that without treatment all pedophiles are at high risk of becoming molesters. That is too much risk in my book. If there is one chance in a million, it is not a risk I am willing to accept.

Once again the concept which I can't understand comes up, which is that death is 'better' than being molested. You admit not to take a 1/1mil chance but every time you drive with your kids you take chances much higher than that. Have you EVER talked to any of your kids while driving? That alone puts them into a very dangerous situation, just not all the time.

So many people just don't realize exactly how much risk they have of things going horrible which they take even though they refuse many less riskier risk. Doesn't mean I can't relate, I have irrational fears also (fears of spiders, of the dark, slight paranoia in many aspects of life, ect.).

As for them thinking about whatever they want? Well, naturally, a pedophile is not going to tell you that they are fantasizing about your child but the idea of it is horrible. My reaction is normal.

The idea of feeling sorry for pedophiles and relabeling the deviancy as an orientation is just ridiculous. It is a mental illness but it seems that it could easily be relabeled as something else if society begins to find reasons to feel pity and empathy for these men.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone can be sympathetic towards a pedophile under any circumstance. I guess I need someone to define what they mean of being sympathetic to them. It sounds to me as it is a pat on the head and telling them that it is perfectly okay to be that way.

This is not about withholding help from them or about locking them away from society. It is about protecting children. One of the things that seems to be very symptomatic about pedophiles and child molesters is that they tend to lie quiet effectively.

Now I personally thought that was just a general trait of the majority of humanity.

That is why I doubt that there is any such thing as a non-practicing pedophile even though I do acknowledge there is a difference between pedophile and child molester.

I think it is safe to assume that those who have never molested ARE buying child pornography. They are then just as guilty.

Well I don't think that is a safe assumption. Basically you are saying that there are no pedophiles who don't break the law.

Lets assume you knew one pedophile which you KNEW that he didn't molest, view cp, or even fantasize about children. How would you treat them. (oh, and p.s. it is possible to be sexually attracted without fantasizing)

I am limited to the amount and kind of research I can do on this while I am at work. It would be nice if someone would study up on this from my viewpoint even if you only do it to prove me wrong.

Assuming two things here to set up a situation.
A. There are pedophiles who broke no law.
B. There are a large number of people who think that all pedophiles must break the law.

Situation: What pedophile in their right mind would admit that they were a law abiding citizen? Crazy ones or ones who wanted to be martyrs are the only two I can think of.

I find it very difficult to believe that there are pedophiles who are not active in some way. From a Christian perspective, and I realize that is meaningless to anyone who is not a Christian, but if the thought occurs, it is the same as the deed when it comes to matters of lust. So, they are either fantasizing about real life children, (scary!), viewing and buying child porn, (worse!), or are contemplating their first victim.

And from a that same Christian perspective any fe/male who fantasizes about another fe/male is just as wrong. Yet you don't seem to mistrust the majority of fe/males 40 and younger... if that is your reasoning you should. If you have a son, I can almost guarantee that you should be mistrusting him too.

Folks, this is not something that can be played around with. Crimes against children are epidemic. These are not people to feel sorry for, but people that need serious therapy and lots of drugs. If my concern was high before, it is even greater now that I read that there are adults out there who are lowering the bar on the level of tolerance for these folks.

Lisa

I once, just for a 'can you do it' challenge, decided to write a research paper on the very view you are against, sympathizing with them and not offend any of my audience. I was successful (and my teacher was very impressed I was able to do it). Anyways, the basics went like this.

First, I showed a few 'facts about life'.
1. There are a good number of pedophiles out there, many unknown about.
2. That there is a chance that some pedophiles when left alone will get worse.
3. That society reacts to someone admitting they are a pedophile to such an extreme degree that no sane pedophiles will admit it.
4. That many pedophiles are sane.

From that I drew this.
That societies view of pedophiles was in the end destructive as it cause those who needed help not to seek it, and instead left them to commit a 'spiral of destruction' which would result in a member who wasn't only non-contributive to society, but a danger as well, at the same time making it clear that not all pedophiles need help as many have made it though life without ever harming a child. (The last part was to make sure my paper wasn't used to justify the view society had of all pedophiles.)

The basic conclusion, your way of acting is more harmful to your's and others' children than our way of acting is.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Define sympathy.

How about 'feeling sorry for'?

Or maybe that is empathy, never got those two straight.

 

[Lisa0315]

How about 'feeling sorry for'?

Or maybe that is empathy, never got those two straight.

I can feel pity for whatever caused them to be this way, probably abuse of some kind. I cannot go so far as to say that they cannot help it and pat them on the head for it.

Lisa